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I'm envisioning an army based around

Drop Pods full of Grey Hunters, Dreadnaughts and/orWolf Guard
Stormwolves full of Blood Claws.

Fast Attack Drop Pods carrying plasma'd up AM Company Comand Squad and Veteran Squads from an Allied Dettchment

Jefffar wrote:


Fast Attack Drop Pods carrying plasma'd up AM Company Comand Squad and Veteran Squads from an Allied Dettchment

That's not wolf tactics. That is list tactics.

I for one will not be on the fast attack drop pod bandwagon unless I put an actual wolf unit in it, such as terminators, lone wolves or scouts.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Have to take two HQs, for that matter. Space wolves detachments mandate two minimum.

You don't have to take that detachment. You can take a normal CAD.

 Paradigm wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Have to take two HQs, for that matter. Space wolves detachments mandate two minimum.

You don't have to take that detachment. You can take a normal CAD.

Right you are.

 einlanzer wrote:
"Only one of each Relic of the Fang may be taken per army. A model can replace one weapon with one of the following:" is the exact writing.

Hmm well I read this as "one relic per character", but if everyone else is saying otherwise then I'm willing to compromise...

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I think the armor of russ is one of the top relics.
Considering that saga of the bear is now pretty lackluster, a lot of us are worried about our fancy TWC lords dying before they get their +6 swings off, so you pop on that armor and boom, virtually every enemy is striking at I1. All the big fancy single modes, like daemon princes and greater daemons, are now striking at the same time, if not after the rest of your TWC. Allowing you the chance to slaughter it. Only initiative 10 baddies will not care about this, and that is only if you put an unwieldy weapon on your lord. Give them a wolf claw or something and he will strike before, if not at the same time as every model in the game.
The beef I have with the armor, is every model I think to put it on, already has a ++4 save, so I feel like I am wasting points in a sense. WGBL and iron priest dont, but they lack the wounds to make that kind of investment, and the iron priest already has a +2 save.

Yeah, the 4++ thing in the armour is enough to make me consider not using it on my Wolf Lord either. At the moment I'm leaning towards Wulfenstone + Black Death for tons of S7 AP2 attacks on the charge.

Anyone else check out Champions of Fenris yet? The relics aren't very good in that either, but there's one 15pt helfrost Stormbolter with 4 shots which looks pretty good for the cost!

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Yeah, the 4++ thing in the armour is enough to make me consider not using it on my Wolf Lord either. At the moment I'm leaning towards Wulfenstone + Black Death for tons of S7 AP2 attacks on the charge.

The 10 point investment on it for a battle leader or rune priest seems worth it to me, I would be putting them in terminator/runic armour anyway, they get a better ++ save and a bonus in challenge

I havent seen the champions of fenris yet, didn't know it was already out. Do you have to do anything special to use the relics or warlord traits in that book?

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Have to take two HQs, for that matter. Space wolves detachments mandate two minimum.

Only if you take a wolves unleashed detachment and not a combined arms. You may still select combined arms meaning 1 hq.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Have to take two HQs, for that matter. Space wolves detachments mandate two minimum.

Only if you take a wolves unleashed detachment and not a combined arms. You may still select combined arms meaning 1 hq.

As I said when Paradigm pointed it out, this is correct.

 GiraffeX wrote:
My Logan Wing Army seems to have been crushed

Good news!

Haven't seen anything really posted on the Champions of Fenris supplement, so I thought I'd throw out some information for folks. Fans of the old Logan Wing will really want to take note of the new Force Organziation chart. For people who wonder why I colored some things:



Special Rules
Sagaborn: Characters must always issue and accept challenges. Challenges still have a pretty terrible mechanic in 7e, so being forced to issue and accept kinda stinks. Not really game breaking though.
First Among Equals: Wolf Guard Battle/Pack/Terminator leaders and TWC leaders get Preferred Enemy in challenges. If we're going to be forced to challenge, we might as well be good at it.

Overall, not anything to worry about. We have to challenge, but get bonuses when we do.

Warlord Traits
1. Re-roll a single failed save each turn. Always nice.
2. Re-roll all failed To-Wound rolls in Challenges. Not bad. Pairs nicely with First Among Equals, too bad challenges are still meh.
3. One free mastercrafted weapon, can't be a relic. *finger twirl*
4. Outflank for him and his unit. Let's you actually use your Acute Senses rule, and being able to Outflank any unit is always excellent.
5. Fearless. Most marines don't gain all that much from getting Fearless over ATSKNF, and I think they still can't Go To Ground while Fearless. Overall one of the weaker Warlord Traits
6. Preferred Enemy. Not bad, not great. Edit: Apparently Preferred Enemy does extend to a squad! I'd rate this normal to Cyan, depending on your other units. There seem to be plenty of ways to get PE for Wolves now though!

Relics (not sure if I can list costs. This book is only out to Wolf Guard buyers, but it is out...)
Armour of Asvald Stormwrack- 2+/4++ with Bulky, Deep Strike, IWND and Relentless. Lose sweeping advance. It's important to note that while fluffed as Terminator armor, there is currently nothing preventing a character from taking this armor AND a thunderwolf mount. It's basically 30 points for Relentless, IWND, and +2 to invulnerable save over Runic Armor. Not bad, but a wolflord already has a 4++. Other units that can take this armor only have W2 with no way to increase (i.e., no Thunderwolf access). Not bad, and IWND is probably worth that 30 points alone on a W4 Wolf Lord...

Frostfury- If you liked Bite of Fenris, this 5 points more for Assault 4 instead of Rapid Fire. You do lose the AP4/IC fire mode though. I'd say I actually like this one slightly better for Hellfrost spamming.

Krakenbone Sword- Basically a Master Crafted Power Axe that isn't Unwieldy, for 10 points over the Fangsword of the Icewolf. A TWC lord is hitting AT INIT, with S6 AP2 Master Crafted. Basically extra reliable AP2.

Morkai's Claws- For 15 more points, this set of Wolf's Claws gives you Rending and +d3 attacks instead of +1 for 2 CCWs. I'm pretty sure I'd pay 15 points just for Rending. Not great for your TWC lord (who already has Rending), but maybe on a Wolf Priest leading a bunch of Blood Claws?

Pelt of the Balewolf- Grants Fear (no, not kidding). Beasts, Cavalry or MCs, though, automatically FAIL that check if they aren't Fearless or have ATSKNF. Extremely situational, even if it's cheap. Are Carnifexes still Fearless outside of Synapse? I don't think they are? Can't remember. Either way, hardly much use for this, even for its cheap cost.

Fellclaw's Teeth- Reroll all failed To-Hit rolls in close combat. Just a passive bonus, not too expensive. Be really nice for TWC lords with the number of attacks they'll be pumping out. If you have spare points, you could do worse than buying this.

Detachment - Company of the Great Wolf
For all you Logan Wing fans, this detachment is for you.

Compulsory: 1HQ, 2 ELITES
OPTIONAL: 3HQ, 3 Troops, 6 ELITES, 3 Fast Attack, 3 Heavy Support, 1 Fortification, 1 Lords of War
Grimnar's Right Hand: Reroll your Warlord Trait, but only if you use the chart in the book. Pretty standard stuff, though I'd say the chart is weaker overall than BRB charts.
Kingsguard: Gives a free +1WS for Wolf Guard of all stripes, and Thunderwolf Cavalry/Pack Leaders. Ya know, the guys you have a TON of slots for?

So fans of Logan Wing, you still don't have ObSec, but at least you have 8 Elites slots to fit everything in. With 0 mandatory troops!

Dataslates
Kingsguard Stormforce: Requires Logan on a sled, 5 WG Terminators with Land Raier, and a Stormfang. When the WG charge from the Land Raider they get Furious Charge AND get to reroll failed charges. Also, as long as Logan is alive, you can choose to pass or fail and Reserve roll for the Stormfang. Pretty freakin sweet if you ask me.

Brethren of the Fell-Handed: Bjorn + 2 venedreads. All get Adamantium Will. As long as the dreads are within 6" of Bjorn, they get a 5++. While he's alive (regardless of distance), they all get to reroll failed To-Hit rolls in CC. Makes that Axe/Shield venedread seem really awesome. 3++ to the front, 5++ everywhere else, reroll hits in CC? DON'T MIND IF I DO!

Wolf Guard Void Claws: 1 unit of Wolf Guard Terminators (5 or more models), all have to have dual Wolf Claws, must start in reserve and arrive on turn 1. Starting out at 240 points for this Dataslate, all you get is:
-Reroll reserves as long as one model lives
-Reroll scatter when they deepstrike
They do get Kingsguard for the +1WS though.
Frankly, I think it's kind of a weak dataslate for its cost.

Grimnar's War Council- Ulrik, Njal, 1 Rune Priest, 1 Iron Priest. All get Fearless. Can be formed into a special unit that can't be joined by ICs except Logan and Arjac. If Logan joins them their Fearless becomes Zealot instead. More importantly, they let you reroll to see who deploys first AND give +2 to Seize the Initiative. Combined with Bjorn you're seizing on a 3+!

Arjac's Shieldbrothers- Arjac with TH/SS Wolf Guard (no unit size requirement) in a Land Raider Crusader. They get Kingsguard for +1WS, and Hammer of Wrath. Additionally, if Logan is in the army and alive, they Fearless. If Logan dies, Fearless becomes Zealot. (sort of the opposite of the War Council, sort of.) THey also get Shieldwall.. basically as long as models in the formation are in B2B with another model from the formation, they get +1T. When they roll 6s on invulnerable saves in CC, they cause a S8 AP2 Concussive hit with Random Allocation. Kind of badass, imo.

Wolf Guard Thunderstrike- 1 unit of WG Terminators (any size), 1 unit of 10 WG in a DP. Kingsguard once again. All arrive via 1 Reserve roll, and get Twin Linked (except the DP) when they show up. No idea how the "all arrive on 1 reserve roll" thing works if you decide to include the DP WG in your turn 1 Drop Pods... (wait, do they still get half on turn 1 automatically?)

Champions of Fenris- Okay, so you know the 6 Dataslates I already listed? The Champions of Fenris dataslate requires you take ALL of them. If you do, all models in all formations get:
Fear (lol)
Fearless
While Logan is alive, all non-vehicles reroll failed to-hit rolls in CC.
While the Iron Priest is alive, all vehicles get IWND! (hello Brethren of the Fell-Handed!)
While Njal is alive, all models get Adamantium Will.
While Ulrik is alive, all models get Preferred Enemy.

I'll leave it to someone else to figure out the point costs associated, but considering the number of Wolf Guard Terminators you need it's going to be hefty. Still, the picture for that dataslate is beyond epic!


So there you go. A basic rundown of the options in the Champions of Fenris book. Honestly? It's kind of awesome, but doesn't entirely eclipse the options in the actual codex (which is good). The Relics are pretty amazing, the Warlord traits (like most) are decent on average, and the dataslates are (largely) really fluffy and interesting. I suspect the Brethren of the Fell-Handed will see a decent amount of use. (seriously, 3 venedreads with 5++ saves AND adamantium will? yes please!)

I like the look of Arjac's Shieldbrothers, it's basically taking Deathwing Knights and going one better in true Space Wolf style with the extra hits.

Except only one model in the unit has to have preferred enemy for the entire squad to benefit.

Just a heads up for warlord trait 6.

I like Grimnars War council because it allows you to get 4 extra ICs for relatively cheap and they have a few special rules.

The re-rolls in challenges are not all too bad. Consider that the majority of challenges will be against some sgt character who might have +1 attack, or +1 leadership. Most don't have upgrades. Then out of all the HQ challenges, how many will be striking at initiative AP2, MCs, daemons and Iron Arm dudes. So not all that much.

Average challenge is like, 1 wound. Your TWC lord has what, 5 or 6 attacks on the charge, all get to re-roll hit because of the challenge. So more attacks hit, which then spill over into the rest of the unit. I mean, worst case you end up against an opponent who has a good chance at killing your dude, then they will challenge anyway.

Also, doesn't the rule for preferred enemy state "as long as one model in the unit has this rule the whole unit gets it"?

 Leth wrote:
Except only one model in the unit has to have preferred enemy for the entire squad to benefit.

Just a heads up for warlord trait 6.

Huh, did not realize this. Updated!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
The re-rolls in challenges are not all too bad. Consider that the majority of challenges will be against some sgt character who might have +1 attack, or +1 leadership. Most don't have upgrades. Then out of all the HQ challenges, how many will be striking at initiative AP2, MCs, daemons and Iron Arm dudes. So not all that much.

Average challenge is like, 1 wound. Your TWC lord has what, 5 or 6 attacks on the charge, all get to re-roll hit because of the challenge. So more attacks hit, which then spill over into the rest of the unit. I mean, worst case you end up against an opponent who has a good chance at killing your dude, then they will challenge anyway.

Also, doesn't the rule for preferred enemy state "as long as one model in the unit has this rule the whole unit gets it"?

I rated most of the Challenge-centric stuff as "normal". Mostly I think challenges are still wonky in 40k. I rated the "must challenge or accept" purple mainly because I dislike being forced to challenge or accept a challenge. It's fluffy enough, sure, but there are still plenty of reasons to not want to issue or accept a challenge. Like I said, not game breaking by any stretch of the imagination but still not ideal.

I'm suddenly very very glad I ordered the supplement. In an edition whereby it seems the whole world is going down the route of grey hunters in drop pods I'm almost compelled to field wolf guard with jump packs alongside TWC....

A question on the relics... Does A detachment chosen from the supplement HAVE to take relics from that book, or may they take them? So could they still take the relics from the standard Dex instead?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I'm suddenly very very glad I ordered the supplement. In an edition whereby it seems the whole world is going down the route of grey hunters in drop pods I'm almost compelled to field wolf guard with jump packs alongside TWC....

A question on the relics... Does A detachment chosen from the supplement HAVE to take relics from that book, or may they take them? So could they still take the relics from the standard Dex instead?

I am also pretty curious about this. Plus, can you mix and match relics? Can a supplement detachment take a relic from the codex? That sword with the armor of russ on a TWC lord is a dream come true for me.

It depends (tm).


The Company of the Great Wolf detachment is specific to Champions of Fenris, so those units can only take relics from Champions of Fenris and NOT from Codex: Space Wolves.

The Wolves Unleashed detachment is specific to Codex: Space Wolves, so units in that detachment can only take relics from Codex: Space Wolves, NOT from Champions of Fenris.

Combined Arms detachment is specific to no book, and so can be used to select models from Champions of Fenris, or Codex: Space Wolves. Whichever codex you opt to use, you can only take relics from that book, for that detachment.

So, no, you can not mix and match relics on a single model. Yes, you can mix and match relics in an army, provided you field a full* detachment of some kind per book.


*Full as in you meet the minimum requirements for that detachment. (e.g., 1HQ/2Troops for CAD, 1HQ/2Elites for CotGW, etc.)

Is that what the champions of fenris codex actually states?

We were noodling a
6x 10 BC in Drop Pods with 1 Flamer (2 Locator Beacons)
6 x Lone Wolves in TDA with Combi/PF

For right around 1300 points.

Add in Harald and a big unit of TWC / Iron Priest and you have some serious first turn hilarity.

SW book states
"One of each relic of the Fang may be taken per army."
So that doesn't help all too much.

 pretre wrote:
We were noodling a
6x 10 BC in Drop Pods with 1 Flamer (2 Locator Beacons)
6 x Lone Wolves in TDA with Combi/PF

For right around 1300 points.

Add in Harald and a big unit of TWC / Iron Priest and you have some serious first turn hilarity.

If you can add in a fast attack pod to get 7, you will get 4 pods in first turn instead of 3.

Yeah, we were also noodling that list with SOB allies.

So 5 BC Pods
3 LW with TDA/Combi
Celestine
5 Priests (for BC Pods)
2 FA Pods
Battle Sisters (HF/F)
Retributors (HFx4)
TWC with Harald.

I thought lone wolves were per unit of Grey hunters not blood claws?

 Leth wrote:
I thought lone wolves were per unit of Grey hunters not blood claws?

Per unit of troops or wolf guard.

 Leth wrote:
I thought lone wolves were per unit of Grey hunters not blood claws?

No, just per troops choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I thought lone wolves were per unit of Grey hunters not blood claws?

Per unit of troops or wolf guard.

This exactly.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Is that what the champions of fenris codex actually states?

Fraid so:

Champions of Fenris, pg 48

Relics of the Great Wolf
Any character that is part of a Detachment or Formation presented in this book that can select Relics of the Fang cannot select from those listed in Codex: Space Wolves, but can instead select from Relics of the Great Wolf, presented opposite, at the points costs shown.

Thanks for clearing it up streamdragon!

Cheers steamdragon

You've just restored my faith in my Wolves, I'm going to need to pick that supplement up when its released normally.

 streamdragon wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Is that what the champions of fenris codex actually states?

Fraid so:

Champions of Fenris, pg 48

Relics of the Great Wolf
Any character that is part of a Detachment or Formation presented in this book that can select Relics of the Fang cannot select from those listed in Codex: Space Wolves, but can instead select from Relics of the Great Wolf, presented opposite, at the points costs shown.

Thanks dude. I'm gutted. But thanks for that. I'm still looking forward to getting the book.

DOOMONYOU wrote:

Jefffar wrote:


Fast Attack Drop Pods carrying plasma'd up AM Company Comand Squad and Veteran Squads from an Allied Dettchment

That's not wolf tactics. That is list tactics.

I for one will not be on the fast attack drop pod bandwagon unless I put an actual wolf unit in it, such as terminators, lone wolves or scouts.

It's wolf tactics as well actually.

Their offensive shooting output is higher than a Grey Hunters squad due to the large number of plasma/melta weapons each unit can take, so they will definitely get your opponents attention if you drop them in Rapid Fire range, giving Dreads, Grey Hunters or Wolfguard a little more breathing room to close in for the kill.

The veterans also have Objective Secured, which is something wolves lack in a Wolves Unleashed Detatchment, so instead of using them to Alpha Strike you can drop them on an objective you want to control.

Combine this with a load of SW in drop pods who start assaulting turn 2 and a couple of (possibly outflanking) full strength units of Blood Claws who can assault anywhere on the board starting about turn 3 and you have a very nasty wolf pack closing in from every direction for the kill.

Why would someone take a Wolves Unleashed Detachment? You can just take a CAD of SW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jefffar wrote:
a couple of (possibly outflanking) full strength units of Blood Claws who can assault. Anywhere on the board starting about turn 3 and you have a very nasty wolf pack closing in from every direction for the kill.

Did I miss some part of Wolves Unleashed that allows assault from Outflank?