Forces of War / Flames of War Digital pricing and miscellaneous information (Forces is LIVE 12/10)

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**Ghaz**

I'm just glad that they give us more information than a certain company up in Nottingham. It seems like they're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't.

**Eumerin**

Some grousing on the forums about lack of updates got responses from Battlefront. Here's the one for the app -

We were hoping to be able to submit it last week, but that build still had a pile of problems. The latest one is looking pretty damn close though (which is to say I haven't found any issues yet!). One of my jobs today is to complete the final testing and prepare (IF everything goes okay) for the Apple submission.

Lets go with a "soon" TM

Chris

Delays are delays. I know they happen. I just wish they'd mentioned that they had, in fact, *not* submitted it to Apple quite yet at the start of the week.

**Ghaz**

I think I'd rather they actually work on their projects instead of spending their time putting out fires that pop up on the forums

EDIT: Update on Forces of War:

Casey at Battlefront wrote:Hi Guys,

Forces of War is just about ready to go. We were going to make it live this week but had a couple of technical issues that cropped up at the last minute, so thought we'd do a final round of server testing this week to see if we can weed out any more bugs, so hopefully we're just about ready to go live.

**Eumerin**

Ghaz wrote:
I think I'd rather they actually work on their projects instead of spending their time putting out fires that pop up on the forums

*shrug*

I'm not asking for anything more than a couple of lines on the forum when there's a setback to the timeline for something that's on the verge of release. That shouldn't take more than five minutes or so... if the internet's running slow that day.

Keep in mind that what triggered my earlier post was Chris's post on the FoW forum that provided a status update conflicting with the previous status update for a product that was expected to be on the iTunes store this week.

**darkness screamer**

Eumerin wrote:
Ghaz wrote:
I think I'd rather they actually work on their projects instead of spending their time putting out fires that pop up on the forums

*shrug*

I'm not asking for anything more than a couple of lines on the forum when there's a setback to the timeline for something that's on the verge of release. That shouldn't take more than five minutes or so... if the internet's running slow that day.

Keep in mind that what triggered my earlier post was Chris's post on the FoW forum that provided a status update conflicting with the previous status update for a product that was expected to be on the iTunes store this week.

Blimey,"putting out fires that pop up on forums"...... seriously ?

The product is promoted and looks really good and your disappointed that your customers are asking questions about where is it when it fails to appear ?

I think Eumerin summed it up perfectly with a couple of lines would have satisfied everybody.

Perhaps concentrate on stopping the fires starting in the 1st place.

Don't get me wrong I`m a Battlefront fan and buy the products, just get somebody to update what is going on and keep your customers happy. Its not a criticism just common sense

Looking forward to App when it comes out and I`m happy to wait

**George Spiggott**

BF's product release information on their website is a joke. They wouldn't get half the problems they do if they put a bit more effort into making the release information on their website up to date and correct. Every problem they've had on the forum they've had has been of their own making.

It's almost as bad as the setup they have with UK distribution. I'm looking forward to the App(s) too as they've got the Jordanian list on them that I want. I have to wait, I have no choice.

**Ghaz**

Forces of War is live:

http://forces.flamesofwar.com/index.aspx

**Avatar 720**

According to Forces: "Buy ALL
Intelligence Briefings from
BRIDGE AT REMAGEN $6.75 via Paypal", translating to £4.29 or, a saving of over £6 against buying at a discount from my FLGS.

If this unlocks every list in the book, or just the US ones (since I selected a light tank company as a test, and gave me the option of $1 for that single briefing, of the above for the entirety), I don't know, but it seems like an alright deal. More expensive than Easy Army, sure, but a large enough saving over buying the book itself.

EDIT: Looking at the help page, it does indeed seem that all the lists in the book are unlocked (along with the 25% discount mentioned in one of the quotes in the OP). Certainly still a decent value deal, even if it is a little more expensive than EA.

**Shotgun**

Is it still just iOS right now?

**AndrasOtto**

Forces is a web application, usable by anything.

FOWDigital is iOS only for now.

**MrMoustaffa**

Shotgun wrote:
Is it still just iOS right now?

I've gotten it to work on my laptop and my windows phone, so if it'll work on those it'll work on anything.

It's literally just easyarmy with a different coat of paint. Which isn't necessarily bad, but I am pretty upset that I've got to buy all my old lists again in the new format when Easy Army finally shuts down for what's arguably the exact same thing.

**Ghaz**

Forces of War is a web application.

Flames of War Digital will be an iPad only app when its released.

**Eumerin**

Took a peek last night. The Bulge Panzer Division lists are free, so they're an option for experimentation if you just want to look around. Those are the only free lists, though. I'd consider spending some money to buy a book, but I'm holding off until the iOS app is released.

I'm disappointed about the lack of digital-only Barbarossa lists, though. We were promised those due to the small number of lists included in the hard copy of the book, and I wanted to see whether Battlefront is going to require payment for those (I've heard that they are). My understanding was that the lists were supposed to be ready to roll out with Forces of War, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

**Ghaz**

Eumerin wrote:
I'd consider spending some money to buy a book, but I'm holding off until the iOS app is released.

Again Forces of War is not an app, nor do I ever remember Battlefront stating that they intended to make an app version. It is a web based service like EasyArmy is/was. Flames of War Digital will be an app which will be limited to the Apple iPad initially.

EDIT: Unless you mean that you're going to wait and get both Force and FoW Digital at one time. If so, then I apologize.

**Eumerin**

Ghaz wrote:
Eumerin wrote:
I'd consider spending some money to buy a book, but I'm holding off until the iOS app is released.

Again Forces of War is not an app, nor do I ever remember Battlefront stating that they intended to make an app version. It is a web based service like EasyArmy is/was. Flames of War Digital will be an app which will be limited to the Apple iPad initially.

EDIT: Unless you mean that you're going to wait and get both Force and FoW Digital at one time. If so, then I apologize.

Running the iOS app makes sense for me, as I have an iPad. And it looks like the website and the app will work similarly.

I also thought that they'd have a similar pricing structure, and even hoped that the accounts might be cross compatible - i.e. buy a book on the online site, and have access to it on the iOS app. However, I just double-checked the app page, and that's clearly not going to happen. The app page shows book prices at $14.99US, and individual list prices at $2.99. The online site provides the Barbarossa lists for $8.25, and individual lists for $1.

That's a pretty big difference in pricing structures (and I don't remember the app prices being that high when I first looked at the page)...

While I'll download the iOS app for any digital-only lists, I'm not so sure that I want to actually start buying any books on it. Since I get hard copies, I'm almost paying the cost of a book *twice* if I buy both the hard copy and the iOS version of a book.

**David Hume**

I'm curious if the "Easy Army" site for Bolt Action will be ended when the FOW Easy Army expires as well

**Ghaz**

With the recent drop in the physical book prices, you'd only be paying about $5 more than you would for just the softcover book a few months ago. Then again, I don't really see the need for both a physical and digital copy of the same book.

For the digital book and all of the Forces of War lists (using Barbarossa as an example) would be less than the softcover alone was a few months ago. Then again, I don't see many people purchasing every single list in Forces. I know personally I would just buy the digital book and the few lists in Forces that I'm considering that have moved past the 'theoretical' stage.

**darkness screamer**

App or whatever, I think will wait until the glitches have been ironed out and it comes to us basic android blokes.

Please be soon

**Ghaz**

Forces of War is not an app, just like Dakka is not an app. It will never 'come to Android' as its already there for anyone with a web browser and it looks just fine on my Android phone.

If you're talking about Flames of War Digital, want glitches? It was just submitted to Apple for approval and hasn't been released yet so there's no 'glitches', at least none that any of us should know about.

**Eumerin**

Ghaz wrote:
With the recent drop in the physical book prices, you'd only be paying about $5 more than you would for just the softcover book a few months ago. Then again, I don't really see the need for both a physical and digital copy of the same book.

For the digital book and all of the Forces of War lists (using Barbarossa as an example) would be less than the softcover alone was a few months ago. Then again, I don't see many people purchasing every single list in Forces. I know personally I would just buy the digital book and the few lists in Forces that I'm considering that have moved past the 'theoretical' stage.

I like hard copies. They're better reading, and it looks like the historical campaign information found in the hard copies isn't going to be included in the app. But the app will be more convenient than lugging around a bunch of books. And it presumably has the same list building function that the website does. Also, there have been the comments from Battlefront suggesting that some lists will *only* be available via the app and website.

Plus, all of the arguments that you presented apply just as much to the website, and there's a considerable price difference between the website prices and the app prices.

**Ghaz**

Eumerin wrote:
I like hard copies. They're better reading, and it looks like the historical campaign information found in the hard copies isn't going to be included in the app.

From what I understand, if you buy the whole book in the app it should be identical to the print version.

Eumerin wrote:
But the app will be more convenient than lugging around a bunch of books. And it presumably has the same list building function that the website does.

Again from what I understand, Flames of War Digital will have no list building function. It will simply be an electronic version of their books.

Eumerin wrote:
Also, there have been the comments from Battlefront suggesting that some lists will *only* be available via the app and website.

Correct.

Eumerin wrote:
Plus, all of the arguments that you presented apply just as much to the website, and there's a considerable price difference between the website prices and the app prices.

That's because the website and the app are different products that do different things. Flames of War Digital is an app that allows you to buy electronic versions of their books (or parts of their books) while Forces of War is the only product that will do the calculations for list building.

**Eumerin**

Ghaz wrote:
[Again from what I understand, Flames of War Digital will have no list building function. It will simply be an electronic version of their books.

If it doesn't have list building capability, then - to put it bluntly - BF is full of idiots who blatantly failed to take advantage of the opportunities provided by the app. That's the best reason for putting stuff on a computer - so that the computer can do all number crunching for you. Ignoring that capability - which the website demonstrates they are fully capable of setting up - is like buying an eighteen-wheeler truck to carry home your groceries.

**brochtree**

Eumerin wrote:
Ghaz wrote:
[Again from what I understand, Flames of War Digital will have no list building function. It will simply be an electronic version of their books.

If it doesn't have list building capability, then - to put it bluntly - BF is full of idiots who blatantly failed to take advantage of the opportunities provided by the app. That's the best reason for putting stuff on a computer - so that the computer can do all number crunching for you. Ignoring that capability - which the website demonstrates they are fully capable of setting up - is like buying an eighteen-wheeler truck to carry home your groceries.

read whats been said. the app is basically a digital version of there books i.e. you get there books with no army building function on your ios device. while forces of war is an army builder that from what i have managed to mess around with is rather good bar some spelling mistakes and the odd error in the lists that i am sure will be fixed soon enough and it is on anything that has a web browser.

**Ghaz**

So the fact that everyone who has internet access instead of just those with Apple products can use Forces of War is a failure

**darkness screamer**

Like I said,I'm gonna sit right back and let the dust settle then make my choice.

Goodnight

**EasyArmy.com**

David Hume wrote:
I'm curious if the "Easy Army" site for Bolt Action will be ended when the FOW Easy Army expires as well

No, it will not.

**George Spiggott**

I never used easy army so this is all new to me. Apart from the odd choices of free introductory lists this seem ok. It's nice to see the force orgs before you buy. I don't think this will be replacing my Excel-Dropbox combo just yet.

This fills a gap before the FoWdigital app is released for Android and hopefully will have the FoaN stuff up on it soon (actual soon not BF soon).

**Krinsath**

Bit of news on FoW Digital for those who don't frequent the BF forums:

Chris at Battlefront wrote:Hey guys,

sorry I haven't been on the forums much over the past couple of weeks. The post-Christmas break catch-up took me a lot longer than expected I'll be swinging through the Product Discussion threads regularly again starting today (although this is a long weekend in NZ so wont be back much till Tuesday NZ time). As a comment though, some of the previous posters were 100% correct, not everyone knows everything about everything, even in the Studio. Realistically I am the only one that knows the detail about where Digital is at, Casey is the resident expert of Forces Of War, and Phil, Wayne and Mike are the only ones that know about <redacted> (sorry, been watching way to State Of Affairs over Christmas).

So.... Digital.... #sigh We submitted it to Apple over the Christmas break, they bounced it back asking that we add a missing feature (or make it more obvious anyway) around product restoration. So if you buy a new device how do you restore your purchases. Our developers sorted that out and have resubmitted it and we are hopeful that we will get the final approvals through next week.

Where too from here?
Option 1 - everything goes fine with Apple, we launch it, you guys try it, love it, and we all live happily ever after.
Option 2 - everything goes fine with Apple, we launch it, you guys try it, love it, find a few bugs that thousands of people using will find as opposed to a small number of staff testing it, we fix it on the fly, everyone is happy.
Option 3 - Apple are not happy.... that is a real problem because we (the developer) will need to fix the problem and have it resubmitted for approval before Feb 1st, or there will be additional delays we have to implement "64-bit support and be built with the iOS 8 SDK". Everyone is grumpy.

So, fingers crossed for option 1

Chris

So....maybe next week?

**George Spiggott**

Then we only have to wait until 'soon' when the Android version appears.