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There are. It's confirmed.

Atia, I am guessing Tz powers can be used by Tz Daemons outside of the campaign book, since there are cards?

Can 40k Thousand Sons use those powers?

I will laugh so hard when it turns out to be just the CSM and Chaos Daemon powers combined into a single discipline for each god.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I will laugh so hard when it turns out to be just the CSM and Chaos Daemon powers combined into a single discipline for each god.

You're right of course... We should expect the absolute worst possible things possible. It's the safest thing to do as a Chaos player, (Chaos is the first step on the road to disapointment), and GW hasn't given us any reason to expect much from them for the past decade!

Here's to betting that the 4 Daemon Prince formation requires a Prince of each God, they all have to take wings, and their 'bonus' perk is that they get to take a random DI test at the beginning of each player turn because of course, Chaos followers can't play nice for just 5 minutes!

I mean, surely a person can translate the German on the one Tzeentch card that is shown thus far..

 Brometheus wrote:
I mean, surely a person can translate the German on the one Tzeentch card that is shown thus far..

Impossible! Nobody knows German! Nobody!

Hey Yabbaddabbaddon, stop making sense.

Seriously, though. I can't wait for more info but I very much doubt Thousand Sons are this Summer. Sad Panda mentioned waiting a long time for that sort of stuff.. (Paraphrasing him, not quoting). If you creep on his profile you can see the recent posts where he mentioned this in response to me

The white dwarf chaos bit says it comes with 21 psikenkarten or something. That means there's full 7 for the casting gods. Also, you can make out a number at the beginning of the psychic power names on the psychic card picture that's been leaked and it's a single number, not a 1-2 or 3-4. There's a full 7 per god.

Wow, I totally Derped on reading your post, abadabadoobadon. I missed the each god part. Thought you were saying you expected only one table overall.

I'll laugh (and then cry mightily) if;
1. The new Tzeentch lore is almost entirely based around random Witchfire powers which still have to deal with the Warpflame rule.
2. Tzeentch gets a formation that combines Tzheralds + Horrors with a bonus that allows them to harness WC's for Witchfire powers on a 2+.

Good thing 7th doesn't allow us to even attempt the same Witchfire power more than once within the same squad!


I guess the only worse possible formation Tzeentch could get would be one that requires say a full unit of 9 Flamers that get to combine their shooting into just a single template that always wounds on a 4+ and ignores armour saves?!

Well on the psychic card picture you can see what looks like the long text of the warp flame rule on the bottom, and the rule starts with a W so... it's there. Might be different though, but I doubt it.

A harnessing warp charge boost would be so, so nice. It's sorely needed.

Well it is 2am in Germany, but I cannot sleep, so why not answer this before trying it again?!

First, here is a better scan of the page - from 40kings.de



Both spells shown are (Edit rules changed a bit though) those from Codex CD, with one exception. They were 1-2 on a die roll. Now they are only 1.

And the WD page says 'these 7 spells are from three disciplines: Excess, Change and Plague'. So these disciplines are named as in the CD book, but unlike the CSM ones. There is also nothing saying otherwise on any of the White Dwarf pages, and no mentioning of CSM at all.

After reading all pages thoroughly I'm 100% sure the expansion is for Chaos Daemons only - but there is stuff for four deities nonetheless.

And GW has most likely added 3 spells to each discipline - usable with Codex: CD

I hope that helps

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I will laugh so hard when it turns out to be just the CSM and Chaos Daemon powers combined into a single discipline for each god.

LOL.... That would be something. What exactly would those Slaaneshi daemon who have no sonic weapons do with Symphony of pain? The greater tragedy is that they actually make the Lores good and we're still limited to taking only half our powers from the god specific lore. Cause GW... But maybe just maybe they'll get it right, maybe even give CSM access to a new buffed god lore.


Son-of-a..... The same weak powers from before...sigh.....

Edit: They added 'up to a minimum of 1' to Acqueiscence

It's just frustrating is all. For Slaanesh the only one worthwhile power was Acquiescence and it isn't the primaris, so skip. If the just added 3 new powers they'd have to be amazing for me to not roll everything on Telepathy. I don't think anyone that cares about Tzeentch will be happy about half their "new" lore being the same bad powers as before. It like being a Cubs fan...maybe next year, or the one after that...sigh.

I re-read everything, and added the stats to my last post

I thought that was tzeentch ' s firestorm in the picture, not flickering fire. In which case it's the same as it was before, and worse than the current iteration of flickering fire. In my opinion it's almost utterly useless.

I'm not German, but it says "tzeentch's feuerstorm".

Experiment 626 wrote:

I really hope that GW has simply 40k'ified the old Fantasy Tzeentch magic lore. Mostly shooting based, but add in the likes of Treason of Tzeentch as a reverse Ld Malediction, which would combo fantastically with the likes of Slaanesh and/or Telepathy!
Flickering Fire really needs help big time, as it's far too much investment for a relatively poor payoff, and the currently crippling Warpflame effect combined with 7th ed preventing the Tzherald and his Horror unit from each even attempting the power... (despite the fact that the most expensive Loci ability is built entirely upon boosting Tzeentch's psychic shooting!)

Tzeentch Daemons also badly need a boost to their casting abilities, as currently, the only thing that makes them 'better' than the other Gods is that Tzheralds can take Lv3. But then you're stuck with the outright worst of the God specific lores!

Hopefully along with new lores that Daemons get their psykers rebooted completely. Cut out a lot of the psychic batteries- Horrors at ML1 regardless of size, Heralds limited to ML2, maybe Daemon Princes as well. To make Tzeentch the best psyker, instead of +3 to LD which was for the old edition, let tzeentch reroll ones when casting. Let Khorne reroll 1s when attempting to deny.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
I thought that was tzeentch ' s firestorm in the picture, not flickering fire. In which case it's the same as it was before, and worse than the current iteration of flickering fire.

Yes, sorry, I need to go to bed, this is Firestorm, no changes, will fix the posts

They only added a clarification to Aqcuiescence

Thanks a lot for that, Warhams-77.

 Sersi wrote:
It's just frustrating is all. For Slaanesh the only one worthwhile power was Acquiescence and it isn't the primaris, so skip. If the just added 3 new powers they'd have to be amazing for me to not roll everything on Telepathy. I don't think anyone that cares about Tzeentch will be happy about half their "new" lore being the same bad powers as before. It like being a Cubs fan...maybe next year, or the one after that...sigh.

Tzeentch badly needs a special rule that allows Tzheralds + their Horror unit to both attempt Flickering Fire at the very least. Alost all of Tzeentch's damage potential is tied directly to the Psychic phase, yet 7th edition's rules have massively knee capped our ability to spam Witchfires.

It's not like it was even broken before or anything, but now I find that I'm struggling in every single game as my ranged damage is now relying almost entirely on Flamers, Screamer fly-bys and Exalted Flamers/Burning Chariots. And those units are always high priority targets.
My poor Horrors are lucky to get more than 2-3 castings of Flickering Fire off in a game, and now all they're doing is handing out FnP because we've lost the ability to focus fire in the Psychic phase.

It's a sad day indeed when my Horror unit is better off launching themselves into assaults with the D6 Strength locus, or else being relegated to "hide in the bushes and summon help".

Flicker fire should be a straight up shooting attack that produces a counter that takes away the amount of "shots dice" you use to determine your shots from your warp charge.

so flicker fire would be a shooting attack with rules something like

Assault X, Warp fuelled

Warp fuelled
For each shot fired with this weapon reduce the number of warp dice available by 1, you may not fire this weapon if you do not have that many warp dice in the pool

I meant a warp charge for 2d6 shots, 2 warp charge for 3d6 shots, and 3 warp charge for 4 d6 shots. The idea being to keep flicker fire from forcing you to waste so many warp charge to actually shoot the damn thing. In my opinion this is why it fails to be a good power. It also gives you an element of player agency as you can simply choose how many warp charge you're removing from your psychic pool next turn.

Or you could make the player keep warp charge from his psychic phase specifically for flicker fire. Basically I'm saying it needs a way to limit the warp charge you need to cast it now. This method is probably better as it opens the chaos player more to making mistakes with his other powers and perhaps reducing the effectiveness of his plan that turn. Would reward tactics a bit rather than throwing 7 dice and failing, thus losing the dice required for other powers that are almost always more important.

This is definitely off topic though, this is neither a rumour nor news, just wish listing.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
I meant a warp charge for 2d6 shots, 2 warp charge for 3d6 shots, and 3 warp charge for 4 d6 shots. The idea being to keep flicker fire from forcing you to waste so many warp charge to actually shoot the damn thing. In my opinion this is why it fails to be a good power. It also gives you an element of player agency as you can simply choose how many warp charge you're removing from your psychic pool next turn.

Or you could make the player keep warp charge from his psychic phase specifically for flicker fire. Basically I'm saying it needs a way to limit the warp charge you need to cast it now. This method is probably better as it opens the chaos player more to making mistakes with his other powers and perhaps reducing the effectiveness of his plan that turn. Would reward tactics a bit rather than throwing 7 dice and failing, thus losing the dice required for other powers that are almost always more important.

This is definitely off topic though, this is neither a rumour nor news, just wish listing.

I honestly haven't even attempted the 3WC/4D6 shot version in nearly two years now... There's just too many other spells I need to go off, and there's no way in hell I'd ever spend the 7-8 WC's and then watch the spell fizzle out and give me a pathetic 5-6 shots! (of which only 2/3rd's ever hit, since we can only cast Flickering Fire with Tzheralds now that Horrors have been so massively nerfed into the ground)

I really want a good reason to return my army back to it's Pink Horror based roots - especially since my Tzeentch army have fully modeled bases littered with dead Space Puppies! (the only good kind of SW imho! )
However, these initial rumors are leaving me with little reason or hope to think that GW is going to address any of the huge issues Tzeentch Daemons currently face.

If anything, the only reason we're featuring at all in the campaign is to act as the comedic punching bag for the SW's to effortlessly rip to tiny shreds, since that's the only thing Chaos in general seems good for these days.

Flickering Fire should be WC1, D6 shots base plus an additional D6 shots for each successfully harnessed WC dice used in manifesting it.

But knowing GW, they probably already think it works that way and so will just reprint the existing rules unaltered.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Flickering Fire should be WC1, D6 shots base plus an additional D6 shots for each successfully harnessed WC dice used in manifesting it.

But knowing GW, they probably already think it works that way and so will just reprint the existing rules unaltered.

Nah, knowing GW they'll probably re-word it so that each additional harnessed WC grants -1 shot instead!

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Flickering Fire should be WC1, D6 shots base plus an additional D6 shots for each successfully harnessed WC dice used in manifesting it.

But knowing GW, they probably already think it works that way and so will just reprint the existing rules unaltered.

Nah, knowing GW they'll probably re-word it so that each additional harnessed WC grants -1 shot instead!

They'd never do something so patently absurd! Additional harnessed WC will just cause an additional D6 hits to the shooting unit.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Flickering Fire should be WC1, D6 shots base plus an additional D6 shots for each successfully harnessed WC dice used in manifesting it.

But knowing GW, they probably already think it works that way and so will just reprint the existing rules unaltered.

Nah, knowing GW they'll probably re-word it so that each additional harnessed WC grants -1 shot instead!

They'd never do something so patently absurd! Additional harnessed WC will just cause an additional D6 hits to the shooting unit.

Brilliant!

Though you forgot to add that these additional hits to the shooting unit get to ignore the effects of Warpflame, just to ensure there's no build-up of FnP, because that just wouldn't be fair, am I right?!

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Flickering Fire should be WC1, D6 shots base plus an additional D6 shots for each successfully harnessed WC dice used in manifesting it.

But knowing GW, they probably already think it works that way and so will just reprint the existing rules unaltered.

Nah, knowing GW they'll probably re-word it so that each additional harnessed WC grants -1 shot instead!

They'd never do something so patently absurd! Additional harnessed WC will just cause an additional D6 hits to the shooting unit.

Brilliant!

Though you forgot to add that these additional hits to the shooting unit get to ignore the effects of Warpflame, just to ensure there's no build-up of FnP, because that just wouldn't be fair, am I right?!

Actually it causes Feel Your Pain which is the opposite of Feel No Pain. For every unsaved wound caused by a unit with Feel Your Pain roll a D6. On a 5+ the unit suffers a wound with no saves of any kind allowed.

English WD photos - via Spikeybits (quoted over from another thread)