What am i doing wrong/why are space marines terrible?

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**Marmatag**

Captain Joystick wrote:
I'd rather run them in squads of 5 with melta and combi-melta sergeant, a squad of 10 will die almost as fast and I feel like five more bolters combat squadded to have them run off and do their own thing is points better spent elsewhere.

What else are you running?

Right now:

HQ - Captain in terminator armor - 120 points (paired with centurion devs)
1x Centurion Devastator Squad - 250 points (3xGrav, no missiles, omniscope)
2x TAC (10men) - 340 points (10pt combi, 10pt S, 10pt H)
1x Stormtalon Gunship - 115 points (skyhammers, not using Death from the Skies)

Sitting pretty at 815 points. Need to figure out if i'm adding Razorbacks, Rhinos, or drop pods, and how many. I really want to pod my cents + captain.

I can comfortably add in a venerable dreadnought as well, because they do work.

In sticking with CAD rules I can only take 2 non-dedicated FA options, so if i take a drop pod for the cents i need to dedicate the transport or pick 1 remaining FA.

**Silver144**

4 squads with 5x marines armed with melta and combimelta, if you have enough models.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And buy fast attack pod to you centurions, totally worth it.

**Marmatag**

If i were to revise as follows:

HQ (120)
2x5man TAC /w Grav+Combi (190)
Cents (250)
Talon (115)
Pod (35)

I sit at only 710 points. A small game at 1000 points could even make land raiders viable, and i could fit one in.

One of my friends plays Orks and i'm pretty sure he could stomp this list because it lacks Dakka; although I have the points to throw in a devastator squad and load it with heavy bolters. Lol.

**Grimgold**

With all of the advice here there is a real opportunity to start a Space marine tactics thread. The 1d4 chan tactics article goes into exhaustive depth on the specifics of units, but not how space marines gel as an army, or how space marines interact in the current meta.

**Silver144**

Better put you captain on bike, or give him some support unit, like vanguards - nice CC unit with discounted PW. In current state he is the only CC in your roster. Or switch him to librarius and put him with centurions.

**Captain Joystick**

Not knocking the captain, he's a decent shooter unit too and can be kitted out to be a decent addition to the Centurion squad, but Silver does have a good point: you could kit out a librarian with the same gear choices and have the ability to cast prescience on those centurions.

**Marmatag**

Captain Joystick wrote:
Not knocking the captain, he's a decent shooter unit too and can be kitted out to be a decent addition to the Centurion squad, but Silver does have a good point: you could kit out a librarian with the same gear choices and have the ability to cast prescience on those centurions.

Makes sense. I can easily stuff a libby in terminator armor and make him a level 2 psyker.

I was relying on the captain for 2 reasons:

1. He came in my get started pack and he's the only HQ i have right now and
2. I did (in my and my friend's opinions) a wicked awesome job painting him.

I'm going to the GW store again either this sat or next to pick up the new tac boxes that come with drop pod/chaos rhino, i'll probably grab a libby then.

OR since i'm ultramarines, i could get the named Librarian who is a level 3 psyker. I can afford him points wise. Thoughts on him?

Also since i have the points i'm bringing a venerable dreadnought in a drop pod; power fist + flamer + AC. In a 1000 point game he lays down some hurt

**greatbigtree**

First off, to the OP:

What do you have in your collection? Weapon upgrades would be appreciated. I'm happy to help you build the best from what you've got.

Do you have a Chapter Tactic you've really got your heart set on? I generally play Ultramarines, but dabble in other tactics to try things out.

What's your point cap again? Would you and your group be willing to play at lower points, like 1000 for a game or two?

The basic codex can be strong, without formations or the new psychic powers and what-have you, but it does NOT play like Necrons, nor do they have similar play styles. Further, Necrons are fairly consistent in terms of power through the 'Dex, while SM have some fairly weak options that are "classic" units.

You can play competitive games without spamming Unit X, or Y, but it's tougher for sure. For example, I play Ult-Red Marines [Formerly a Blood Angels player] so tend to focus on close range / assault units. This can work, tactically, if I place as many objectives as I can close to the centre of the board. If I can get 3 objectives within 12" of each other, near the centre, my opponent has to come to me if they want to claim / contest, so I force my opponent into assault range, despite my relatively slow movement.

Like I said, I'd be happy to help with "out of the box" army organization. I'd just need to know a few things.

**Bryan01**

The Talon Strike force is workable, here is a good article on it: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/02/02/the-pinion-demi-company-why-arent-you-using-it/

Same site, has good Space Marine Tactica articles.

**reds8n**

Lord Kragan wrote:
Dear god, this is almost a textbook example on how NOT to build a competitive marine list.

If we can in future try to avoid making comments quite like this and actually provide some more useful advice it'll be a better world for all.

Thank you.

**Martel732**

Base marines aren't good. That includes tac marines, assault marines, dev marines, etc. The good stuff is basically non-marines like bikes, thunderfire cannons, and centurions.

There are formations available to marines that make the poor units good again, however, such as Skyhammer Annihilation Force and the Battle Company.

**Insectum7**

Volgon wrote:

Well that's why I'm here. I clearly have no idea what I'm doing, and all I've heard so far is spam bikes/grav.

Ok, ok, the most important thing is: Don't Panic! You don't need bikes to be competitive (you will probably want at least a couple Grav Cannons though).

But the number one question is: How competitive do you want to be? I ask because I can do pretty well at my club with 10-man Tac Squads, no Bikes, no Grav Centurions. I only pull out the Gladius Battle Company against the most competitive players.

The 2nd most important question is: What kind of army do you want to build? For example, I don't really like Bikes or Centurions in my Space Marine armies, and that's mostly just a matter of taste. But different people like different things. Do you like Scouts? Do you like Psykers? Do you like mixed armies (allies)? Do you like Flyers or Knights? Do you like Assault?

Unless you are playing against the most hyper-competitive armies, you should have plenty of viable "flavors" of army available to you, don't feel forced into anything.

**Martel732**

Another part of not being good is being hard to use. The truth is that if you use the units gw tells you to use, marines are NOT a beginner army.

**Insectum7**

Bryan01 wrote:
The Talon Strike force is workable, here is a good article on it: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/02/02/the-pinion-demi-company-why-arent-you-using-it/

This is very true, the Raven Guard and the Pinion Demi-Co give some really cool and useful options.