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1850 for an upcoming RTT.

Yriel
Farseer
Fortune, RoWarding
8 Warlocks
Emboldenx2, Enhance
Wave Serpent
TL-ShuriCannons, SS

5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent
TL-Brightlances, SS

5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent
TL-Brightlances, SS

5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent
TL-Eldar Missle Launcher, SS

3 Vypers
Scatter Lasers

Fire Prism
Holo-Fields

Fire Prism
Holo-Fields

3 Warwalkers
Dual Scatter Laser

If Reecius is reading this, the 2,000 point list is pending, so far I like the hellish hybrid, though I still have a few games to go through, this list is just a side event, i'm not one of "those guys"...

Hopefully i'll crush the competition, got first in the last tournament with a toned down version of this list.

Wait, what is your plan?

Depends on the opposing army, if it takes the defensive, I fortune & flat-out the council, and rump some skulls for lack of a better explanation.

The walkers outflank.

Most things reserve depending on the enemies firepower.

If they take the offensive, I usually deploy my troop serpents giving cover to my walkers and vypers, yet not blocking their LoS.

The council acts as a counter-assault unit, with a 16-21" threat range from the back of the serpent.

Still getting used to the fire prisms, I just dance them 12" around my table edge, taking shots of opportunity.

Cool, but why council?When you could take banshees for a cheaper price?

Because banshees aren't nearly as good? For starters, they have less WS, and the same I... They only wound on 5's against most things, they don't have an invulnerable save to boot.

Explain why I should take banshees?

Nah they have their benefits, of having power weapons, and being cheaper, though the council trumps them any day.

What can I say. It looks ok except for the Council...550pts is just too much for what it can do and once its out of the Serpent they will die as easy to small arms fire as a Tactical SM, and thats assuming you get fortune going. Which is far from certain vs IG,Nids, Eldar and SM(variants)...

I like your list, seems simple and effective. My only concern would be the lack of low AP-weapons or melta weapons. Maybe swapping your walkers for fire dragons in a wave serpent. That's about the same points cost I believe?

Savis wrote:I like your list, seems simple and effective. My only concern would be the lack of low AP-weapons or melta weapons. Maybe swapping your walkers for fire dragons in a wave serpent. That's about the same points cost I believe?

I was stuggling with that too, though at 2,000 points, I have less AT!

I would probably switch the vypers out instead, since they get half the shots.

tedurur wrote:What can I say. It looks ok except for the Council...550pts is just too much for what it can do and once its out of the Serpent they will die as easy to small arms fire as a Tactical SM, and thats assuming you get fortune going. Which is far from certain vs IG,Nids, Eldar and SM...

Tyranids, no problem, though psychic hoods, 50/50 isn't bad, so long as I get rid of him early.

Though think of what they can do outside of the serpent, i've had them kill 900 points of stuff, losing two warlocks in 1,400 points. I have also had them kill 200 points of stuff in 1,500 points losing two warlocks. Hell, i've had them kill about 300 points, and eat it.

They're really flashy, and take all the blows away from my vypers and walkers, and even yriel alone can take out full squads with ease. The warlock unit is mostly a transportation system for him.

As tedurur said it looks solid apart from the Council. As soon as you run into psychic defense or indeed anyone who knows how to deal with assault units coming out of Serpents (drop the Serpent if it gets too close, move back out of assault range if you didn't get the positioning right, force them to charge something you don't care about etc) then that unit falls over and you are left with half your army to deal with theirs.

I'm curious at how you intend to get rid of enemy psychic hoods early though, he only needs to stop you once and the Serpent dies, after that you can be dealt with even if he doesn't stop Fortune again (long shot). There is no way you can kill him off for at least a couple of turns (because its probably the Council that will have to do it) and if you run into Null Zone things go from bad to worse. Saying they have a 16"-21" threat bubble is a massive overstatement. Basically due to the position of the exit on the Serpent, its only going to be that high if you are facing your rear to me the turn before. Also being a single exit point means I could park a Vyper/Land Speeder/any other expendable unit right behind you and you can't get out. In practice you have about a 8"-13" threat bubble if you are facing the right way, i.e not with your rear to me so I can fire everything at your Serpent, drop it (no Energy Field and even with cover and Fortune the Serpent is going down), and then start torrenting the things inside, you can increase this a little by facing slightly side on but you can't stretch it too far or you get shot in the rear by mobile anti tank anyway. Disembark 2" + 6" is going to get you to roughly level with the front of the Serpent, and D6" fleet + 6" assault isn't really a particularly scary threat range (and a bad fleet roll will leave you stranded).

If you insist on running a Council I would add a second Enhance Warlock, lose Enhance and your effectiveness drops dramatically. You also need Witnessing on the Seer, you have to get Fortune up and against another Eldar army (Warding) or Nids (Shadows) you will need it.
There is no denying that they can do plenty of damage and even win the game for you by themselves, but any half decent player will be able counter them easily.

With so many points tided up in the council you are pretty light on killing power, you are really going to struggle against armies with multiple high AV vehicles in any case (thinking multi Land Raider, Leman Russ, Predators, Ironclads etc) as without Fire Dragon you are relying on the Council to deal with them (2 Bright Lances and the Prisms won't realistically be enough). Thats a bad plan to begin with even without factoring in that they can be shut down easily. You want to open the transports up with shooting so you can assault the stuff inside, not assault the transports, maybe destroy them, and then get mobbed by the stuff inside.

You are pretty light on scoring units as well (mostly because of the council), 3 DAVU in Serpents is really cutting it fine, I have 2 DAVU Serpents and a DAVU Falcon at 1750pts and that feels very light in most games.

Anyway, those Vypers should be 3 separate units rather than a squadron if they aren't already. It makes them much more flexible and significantly more annoying to deal with. You could probably lose the Holos off the Fire Prisms, it makes them much more expensive. Just keep them as far back as possible and use your range to stay alive. Also you shouldn't always outflank the Walkers, they are one of your main sources of firepower so get them on the table as soon as possible. I have lost games simply because they refused to show up until turn 5 (with an Autarch). Only outflank them if you are worried about getting shot off the table turn 1 or know that you are going mostly ineffective unless you get side shots. I've also found that they are the perfect height to be able to sit just behind a couple of skimmers, still be able to see over and also get a cover save.

Powerguy wrote:As tedurur said it looks solid apart from the Council. As soon as you run into psychic defense or indeed anyone who knows how to deal with assault units coming out of Serpents (drop the Serpent if it gets too close, move back out of assault range if you didn't get the positioning right, force them to charge something you don't care about etc) then that unit falls over and you are left with half your army to deal with theirs.

I'm curious at how you intend to get rid of enemy psychic hoods early though, he only needs to stop you once and the Serpent dies, after that you can be dealt with even if he doesn't stop Fortune again (long shot). There is no way you can kill him off for at least a couple of turns (because its probably the Council that will have to do it) and if you run into Null Zone things go from bad to worse. Saying they have a 16"-21" threat bubble is a massive overstatement. Basically due to the position of the exit on the Serpent, its only going to be that high if you are facing your rear to me the turn before. Also being a single exit point means I could park a Vyper/Land Speeder/any other expendable unit right behind you and you can't get out. In practice you have about a 8"-13" threat bubble if you are facing the right way, i.e not with your rear to me so I can fire everything at your Serpent, drop it (no Energy Field and even with cover and Fortune the Serpent is going down), and then start torrenting the things inside, you can increase this a little by facing slightly side on but you can't stretch it too far or you get shot in the rear by mobile anti tank anyway. Disembark 2" + 6" is going to get you to roughly level with the front of the Serpent, and D6" fleet + 6" assault isn't really a particularly scary threat range (and a bad fleet roll will leave you stranded).

If you insist on running a Council I would add a second Enhance Warlock, lose Enhance and your effectiveness drops dramatically. You also need Witnessing on the Seer, you have to get Fortune up and against another Eldar army (Warding) or Nids (Shadows) you will need it.
There is no denying that they can do plenty of damage and even win the game for you by themselves, but any half decent player will be able counter them easily.

With so many points tided up in the council you are pretty light on killing power, you are really going to struggle against armies with multiple high AV vehicles in any case (thinking multi Land Raider, Leman Russ, Predators, Ironclads etc) as without Fire Dragon you are relying on the Council to deal with them (2 Bright Lances and the Prisms won't realistically be enough). Thats a bad plan to begin with even without factoring in that they can be shut down easily. You want to open the transports up with shooting so you can assault the stuff inside, not assault the transports, maybe destroy them, and then get mobbed by the stuff inside.

You are pretty light on scoring units as well (mostly because of the council), 3 DAVU in Serpents is really cutting it fine, I have 2 DAVU Serpents and a DAVU Falcon at 1750pts and that feels very light in most games.

Anyway, those Vypers should be 3 separate units rather than a squadron if they aren't already. It makes them much more flexible and significantly more annoying to deal with. You could probably lose the Holos off the Fire Prisms, it makes them much more expensive. Just keep them as far back as possible and use your range to stay alive. Also you shouldn't always outflank the Walkers, they are one of your main sources of firepower so get them on the table as soon as possible. I have lost games simply because they refused to show up until turn 5 (with an Autarch). Only outflank them if you are worried about getting shot off the table turn 1 or know that you are going mostly ineffective unless you get side shots. I've also found that they are the perfect height to be able to sit just behind a couple of skimmers, still be able to see over and also get a cover save.

While I mostly disagree with the council statements ( ) what would you and tedurur suggest as a change? I will have three vypers, and some more serpents painted by then; though I can paint anything else I have...

I know splitting the vypers up would give them alot more endurance, though is it worth adding two easy-as-hell KP's?

I know not to always outflank my walkers, I only do against opponents who have multiple medium strength weapons with a long range.

I could drop a warlocks with embolden, add in 5 dragons in a serpent with stones, drop the vypers, and add in enhance... (then take out the council for whatever needs to be in there)

Three scoring units should be fine, especially with the council, since they usually pour all their shooting into that, then when the council gets stuck in CC, they (foolishly) fire at the prisms.

WAAAAAT ??
no spirit stones on serpent with the council ????

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Yriel
Farseer
Fortune, RoWarding
8 Warlocks
Emboldenx2, Enhance
Wave Serpent
TL-ShuriCannons, SS

^^^And I quote.^^^

Zachar fail...

I remember you Zachar...

Hehehehe...