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I did a search and looked at both Gwar's and the INAT FAQs to no avail.

Can a BA Assault Squad drop it's jump packs and NOT purchase a transport?

Homer

Homer S wrote:I did a search and looked at both Gwar's and the INAT FAQs to no avail.

Can a BA Assault Squad drop it's jump packs and NOT purchase a transport?

Homer

I don't see why not. The option is in the 'dedicated transport' section, but it is still an option that allows you to remove the jump packs and then gives you the *option* to buy the transport, so if you want to, you can choose not to.

Of course, then you're just throwing points away, so why would you ever want to do that?

I believe he may not have the models, or something to that effect.

That's a good question (adds mental note to add it to next FAQ version).

As for the answer, I am not sure. It doesn't say "May", it says "can".

I would say that you have to buy one, but you can always buy a Drop Pod (since it is free).

I'm going to say it's a flat out no.
Here's why, under the dedicated transport option it says "...to count as infantry. It can then have any..." so to take a DT one removes the squads packs - this means they can have (embark) on the transport they are taking (any of your choice).

As gwar says take a free DP (then used a can of paint/soup if you don't have the model.)

If we want to get semantic about it, 'can' is not much different than 'may'. It's a lot different if it says 'must', but it doesn't. I may eat soup, or I can eat soup, leaves a decision up to me whether I do or not. I must eat soup makes it an imperative even if I don't like the soup. Still I think it would be foolish not to eat the soup if it's offered.

ChrisCP wrote:I'm going to say it's a flat out no.
Here's why, under the dedicated transport option it says "...to count as infantry. It can then have any..." so to take a DT one removes the squads packs - this means they can have (embark) on the transport they are taking (any of your choice).

As gwar says take a free DP (then used a can of paint/soup if you don't have the model.)

Nothing you posted indicates a reason why the unit can't take the option to remove their jump packs and then refuse the option to purchase the vehicle.

The whole thing says:

"The squad can remove its jump packs to count as infantry. It can then have any Dedicated Transport at a 35-point discount (see page 90)."


The word 'can' is a synonym for may and it gives an option. You can or you can not, just like you may or you may not.


1) So the squad can remove its jump packs to count as infantry. There is no restrictive statement here. In order to count as infantry, the squad can remove its jump packs.

2) [If it removes its jump packs] it can then have any Dedicated Transport at a discount. Again, this is an option with only one restriction: the unit must have removed its Jump Packs in order to utilize it.



There is absolutely nothing indicating that removal of the jump packs (and making the unit into infantry) suddenly compels them to purchase a transport...they can, but they don't have to.


And besides, who cares? Anyone who wants to do this is simply flushing points down the toilet, so why even make a fuss?

yakface wrote:And besides, who cares? Anyone who wants to do this is simply flushing points down the toilet, so why even make a fuss?

Because this is the Internet and we have nothing better to do.

But yeah, I would be content with allowing you to just take a Drop Pod and use a Soda Can.

I thought about this for my 'Ard Boyz list and did not try it in case arguments came up.

The reason this sounded good was to have the Assault Marines ride in Storm Ravens.

yakface wrote:

ChrisCP wrote:I'm going to say it's a flat out no.
Here's why, under the dedicated transport option it says "...to count as infantry. It can then have any..." so to take a DT one removes the squads packs - this means they can have (embark) on the transport they are taking (any of your choice).

As gwar says take a free DP (then used a can of paint/soup if you don't have the model.)

Nothing you posted indicates a reason why the unit can't take the option to remove their jump packs and then refuse the option to purchase the vehicle.

The whole thing says:

"The squad can remove its jump packs to count as infantry. It can then have any Dedicated Transport at a 35-point discount (see page 90)."


The word 'can' is a synonym for may and it gives an option. You can or you can not, just like you may or you may not.


1) So the squad can remove its jump packs to count as infantry. There is no restrictive statement here. In order to count as infantry, the squad can remove its jump packs.

2) [If it removes its jump packs] it can then have any Dedicated Transport at a discount. Again, this is an option with only one restriction: the unit must have removed its Jump Packs in order to utilize it.



There is absolutely nothing indicating that removal of the jump packs (and making the unit into infantry) suddenly compels them to purchase a transport...they can, but they don't have to.


And besides, who cares? Anyone who wants to do this is simply flushing points down the toilet, so why even make a fuss?

Sorry about that.
It's because the whole entry is under the 'Dedicated Transport' option. So if we follow the 'Don't have to take a transport' route, we are allowing a player to use rules specifically concerning their dedicated transports without using the transport itself.
"How'd you take the jump pack off you assault squad?"
"Oh I use the special rules for my DT that lets me do that."
"So what transport did you take?"
"I didn't take one?..."
"So how'd you take them jump packs off?"

The 'can' is being used to grant permission not to show a possibility, the possibility is to make use of the DT war-gear selection. After that they are giving us specific permissions to, alter the war-gear of a unit and then buy a transport. If one elects to use the DT war-gear option of a unit by definition (hmm thin ice here) one must use a DT otherwise there's no DT to use the DT... etc etc...

The text says "The squad can remove its jump packs to count as infantry. It can then have any Dedicated Transport ..." In comparison, the entry for the Tactical Squad says "The squad can select any dedicated transport (see page 90)." Also, the entry for Death Company says "If the squad does not have jump packs, it can select any dedicated transport (see page 90)."

Can anyone explain why one of these would be permission and the others would be possibility without arguing for intent?

"How'd you take the jump packs off?"
"I used the option listed under dedicated transports."
"So what transport did you take?"
"I didn't take one."
"So how'd you take them off?"
"It says can have a transport and not must take a transport in the rules, so I didn't take one."

After all, the Dedicated Transport rules of page 81 of the codex specify "Where applicable, this section refers to any transport vehicles the unit may take."

Tironum wrote:I thought about this for my 'Ard Boyz list and did not try it in case arguments came up.

The reason this sounded good was to have the Assault Marines ride in Storm Ravens.

I'm asking as the question came up in an AB files discussion. I think this was what was intended. Thanks for the workaround: don't flush the points, take a Drop Pod. Bring on a drink can/soda bottle if you don't have the model.

Homer