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So my buddy and I were playing a game of planetstrike last night and this issue came up. He had a black templar squad of assault marines (I believe) with an emperor's champion attached and he assaulted my Nightbringer. I used gaze of death instead of the normal attacks because there were more guys then attacks I had. Anyway, the issue with this was since the emperor's champion was in b2b contact and it was melee and everyone under the template gets hit automatically, do I roll his wound separate since he's "kind of" a separate squad in close combat? I get that if they were normal attacks I would have to allocate to him or his squad, and I do get that it isn't a normal attack but it IS an attack I can only do in CC and it is in lieu of my normal CC attacks. We ended up playing it just as one entire squad (which I did completely understand his side of the debate). Honestly I'm just still not 100% clear if we played it correctly or what.

Kevin949 wrote:So my buddy and I were playing a game of planetstrike last night and this issue came up. He had a black templar squad of assault marines (I believe) with an emperor's champion attached and he assaulted my Nightbringer. I used gaze of death instead of the normal attacks because there were more guys then attacks I had. Anyway, the issue with this was since the emperor's champion was in b2b contact and it was melee and everyone under the template gets hit automatically, do I roll his wound separate since he's "kind of" a separate squad in close combat? I get that if they were normal attacks I would have to allocate to him or his squad, and I do get that it isn't a normal attack but it IS an attack I can only do in CC and it is in lieu of my normal CC attacks. We ended up playing it just as one entire squad (which I did completely understand his side of the debate). Honestly I'm just still not 100% clear if we played it correctly or what.

Yes, you roll to wound him separately.

Gwar! wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:So my buddy and I were playing a game of planetstrike last night and this issue came up. He had a black templar squad of assault marines (I believe) with an emperor's champion attached and he assaulted my Nightbringer. I used gaze of death instead of the normal attacks because there were more guys then attacks I had. Anyway, the issue with this was since the emperor's champion was in b2b contact and it was melee and everyone under the template gets hit automatically, do I roll his wound separate since he's "kind of" a separate squad in close combat? I get that if they were normal attacks I would have to allocate to him or his squad, and I do get that it isn't a normal attack but it IS an attack I can only do in CC and it is in lieu of my normal CC attacks. We ended up playing it just as one entire squad (which I did completely understand his side of the debate). Honestly I'm just still not 100% clear if we played it correctly or what.

Yes, you roll to wound him separately.

Would you mind explaining the reason behind why you would with that attack as well? Just so we can both better understand the difference.

Because as an Independent Character without a retinue, he counts as a Separate 1 man unit when in a close combat.

Gwar! wrote:Because as an Independent Character without a retinue, he counts as a Separate 1 man unit when in a close combat.

See this is where I get confused. He counts as a 1 man unit for the purposes of resolving attacks in close combat. I don't see anywhere in the assault rules that say anything one way or the other about psychic powers or special abilities that simply happen during the assault phase or instead of close combat attacks. Would wounds from a vehicle "explode" result in the assault phase be rolled separately for the unit and attached characters?

The Independent Character rules state "When the attacks are resolved, however, independent characters are always treated as a separate single-model unit (...) even though they have joined the unit. ... Be aware, though, that this also means that independent characters can be targeted separately by models that are engaged with them!" That's from page 49 of the rulebook.

Since the Gaze of Death is being done instead of the big guy's regular attacks, a person can argue that the the big guy can single out the IC because of the second sentence quoted.

solkan wrote:The Independent Character rules state "When the attacks are resolved, however, independent characters are always treated as a separate single-model unit (...) even though they have joined the unit. ... Be aware, though, that this also means that independent characters can be targeted separately by models that are engaged with them!" That's from page 49 of the rulebook.

Since the Gaze of Death is being done instead of the big guy's regular attacks, a person can argue that the the big guy can single out the IC because of the second sentence quoted.

I guess if you really want to get picky about it (which I do as it was my Emperors Chimp on the receiving end ) it seems that there is potentially a difference between count as his cc attacks or happening instead of cc attacks.