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Yes it does Cobra Commander, yes it does....




So what do people think of the 8th ed rulebook now that it is out?

I'm liking it so far.
A heap of new special rules to wrap my head around. I think I'm just going to go over the rules section for the next couple of weeks, then the background section later.

Wow that thing is HUGE can't wait to get my hands on one.

I vowed not to give GW any more of my money, but I can't keep that vow with this brick of solid awesome available.

I've hated fantasy for years, and my last three batreps are 8th edition batreps, if that tells you anything.

The actual rules make up a small part of the book.

There is a big chunk taken up by an annoyingly foldoutable (annoying as it will tear/not fit back in properly eventually) pic of a massive battle, then the special rules they used, background for units, and general fluff for that battle only.

As to the new magic, some of the spells are insane when on high power.
I think that Life magic is my choice for tournaments with my lizardmen (if you have to select lore pre tourney). Primarily because it is chock full of buffs for your army, so isn't dependent on what you are facing.
+2 or +4 toughness to a unit... yes please.

Wow, a cameo by Cobra Commander!

Valhallan42nd wrote:I've hated fantasy for years, and my last three batreps are 8th edition batreps, if that tells you anything.

Sometime I would be interested to hear why fantasy haters and abstainers have suddenly returned to the game after skipping 6E & 7E. Perhaps I'll make a thread down in square base land ...

Because frankly 8E is a lot like 7E, which is great because I was expecting I'd be totally alienated with all the dumbed-down changes and go play Infinity at long last. But no, I like pretty much everything about 8E, except for the inane terrain rules and the inexplicable desire of people to play 3k games. I think GeeDub really dropped the ball on toning down magic, as having a caster - preferably a level 4 one - is actually more important than in 7E, but I got over my 'Suicide FTW' stance some time ago

Ultimately 8th is still quite fun to play, and I'm finding it to be a bit faster as well, which means the mayhem just comes harder and faster

- Salvage

Yea Waaagh, everyone I've spoken to agrees that LIFE is the powerhouse of the spellbook-it's by far the best lore possible. It may not have THAT many spells that do damage, but who cares? Every cast heals wounds and you can bring back your dead models. I don't think any army will leave home without it (provided that they have a model who can take it)

Its pretty damn awesome, I feel sorry for those who aren't going to buy the 8th edition hardcover rulebook.

My favorite HAS to be the scenario's, the 1-6 of what battle you'll play. They really are creative and shakes up Warhammer Pitched Battle that was 7th.

I, like Salvage, frown upon Gee-Dub going for 3k games...just more money I have to spend D:

The tournaments in Australia have moved from 2250 to 2400-2500 for the ones planned in the next few months.

The changes aren't that big a deal for regular players. Movement has been streamlined alot (now with random charging), the 'to wound' chart has been changed for the first time since its release >25 years ago, magic peower/dispel generation is changed and spells for the 8 lores are super buff, more missile troops can shoot, combat is now slanted to large units and I think its an improvement as when charged, my front rank will actually get to do something, fear and terror not as incapacitating for those armies with psychology, army selection guideling changed.

The rules are well laid out.

3-4 games and 7th will be a distant memory.

2500 isn't that big of a jump, but 3000 is a lot from 2250.

All I'd have to do to get to 2500 is add in a Ghorgon, and take out a few ungor raiders/gors/bestigor

Well, my gw is doing an escalation campaign (very fun) to help people learn the new rules and build an army (if they don't already have one).

the gamers edition is really good, i found out that you can fit all the counters from the counter set (but not the combat resolver) into the skull dice bag which saves loads of room due to the massive nature of the bag.

It's a lovely book. My head has been spinning since I got it on Friday as I got the new iPhone that day too (too much shiny in one day). My only worry about the book is that it will damage itself under its own weight. I'm going to get the box with the smaller rulebook, which will help but for me the best part of the hardback rulebooks is the fluff. The miniatures sections are very good and aren't all painted to a stupidly high standard, which can be off putting when starting out, or as in my case, restarting. And there is a very good selection of battles to fight.

One bit of advice I would give to anyone who hasn't taken the plunge yet: Don't bother with the templates and such, the build quality isn't that great. The big ruler will break easily and isn't as good as a proper wooden folding ruler with metal hinges like my Grandad had and the dividers are huge and unwieldy, just buy a tape measure. The templates are pretty but dont feel very functional combining them was an interesting idea but one that should have been left on the drawing board IMO. It would be a bit confusing to teach a new player using this rather than two separate ones, I'll be stickinhg with my plain 40k ones. The counters set is ok if you are just starting but I think I'd be happier with pen and paper, the charge/flee tokens seem to be the main thing that will get used. The only extra thing I recommend are the magic cards, which are lovely. The magic section in the book is very disjointed, with all the spells being in the back in the reference section, which is a good thing but odd when trying to fathom the magic rules.

Hopefully they will get a PDF of the reference sheets on the site soon. So yes, lovely book and cards, but leave the other stuff at the shop.

P.S. The dice are horrible, and don't roll properly. They just plonk on the table and stop.

Yep, I approve of the book. I find some of the spells a bit weird. Lore of Metal's clockwork dogs would be ok, if they didn't wound on the target's armour save. This makes no sense whatsoever... unless the dogs drag the target unit to a very deep lake.

My favourite Lore (as it has always been) is Lore of Light. Surely this is pretty good choice for Lizardmen, Gonads? It has two spells that allow you overcome the one weakness of Saurus Warriors, namely their low initiative.

My only grumbles are that they should have done impact hits with cavalry and terrain is now a bit silly.

EDIT - Oh and one more grumble, I really don't know what they were thinking when they wrote the rules for skirmishers. In terms of keeping the game flowing having to maintain an approximate (?!?!?!) 1/2 inch gap between models will be a bit of a nuisance. A specially modified movement tray might be a solution, but then you have to change them to standard formation if they ever get into combat.

As one who only just got into WFB on the tail end of 7th , I can't really compare but I got 2 1500 point games in yesterday at the release in the GW store and they were a blast . I actually won both games with my Orcs . I really like the rules and the way the games seem to flow a bit better , but a word of advice , don't try to hold the book in one arm while reading or you'll end up with arms like Arny or in plaster .

I played a game of 8th with my Daemons (Boo, hiss!) and then watched my friends duke it out (WoC vs. Orcs). Some thoughts;

Scenarios: Much better, the two we had were actually semi-interesting and better than the usual 7th. Terrain that interacts is pretty fun too, albeit a bit random and more demanding on your terrain selection (I'm sure this is a strategy to sell more upcoming terrain pieces).

Movement: MUCH better. Free reform + Musician makes the table more dynamic. Great change for ranks. Skirmish movement, after reading it twice, is pretty silly and convoluted. I'll probably just park my skirmishers in a forest so I don't have to take the time to move the damn things...pretty bad rule here I think.

Shooting: I've always liked TLOS but Warmachines with no guess and just scatter....seem pretty freaking scary now. I think it's a good time to be an Empire or Dwarf player.

Combat: Things actually die! Not sure how characters are going to last this edition with step up, no Ward/Regen stack....but I'm ok with this provided when my units get into HTH they actually do something other than combat resolution math.

Magic: It's only been two games but magic seems very....strong. No miscast on dual 1s + the new Lores + Lvl. 2s being able to throw 4+ dice at spells + your opponent possibly getting the shaft with a dice roll (Winds of Magic roll)....well all of that added up to several dead units. Magic has been pretty strong for us so far.



Some specifics I see for my Fantasy Daemon Army:

PlagueBearers got hit hard. So much for a Nurgle block with a Herald, pretty much a pointless unit now.
Letters will probably be the rank/file now.
Thirster is still a beast, although Warmachines look scarier now.
Flamers are still good.
Flesh Hounds went from Jessica Alba good to Jennifer Aniston still useful.


I'll have to try my Wood Elves next.....see if the world is really ending.

Had 2 games with lizardmen today.

Still struggling with alot of the movement changes, but the rest is really intuitive, primarily thanks to the rumours over the last couple of months.

Flashman I used a slaan as the only character - BSB, Ranger's Standard, cupped hands, Loremaster, Reroll miscasts, add d6 to cast, 1 enemy wizard discards any 6's for casting. Put him is a unit of 20 templeguard

Threw 8 dice at Birona's timewarp on max power,(affected his unit of templeguard, a unit of 6 kroxigor, 2 units of saurus) irrisistable force came up, rolledan 8 for miscast, rerolled it to a 5 and the cupped hands it to the HE archmage in the unit of white lions, killing 8 white lions.

Light and life are now my favories.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Magic is ridiculously strong now if it gets off max power.

Althought there were some dud spells in 7th ed, on the whole they were balanced (at least until daemons, and skaven for OTT, and beastmen for the suk.

locally we are running d3+ 4 terrain pieces instead of d6, as it seems excessive, OR we limit the "mystery" terrain stuff to 3 per table: one per side and one in the middle, or sometimes limit to just one terrain piece.

Why GW thought it would be hilarious if every battle is on a daemonworld I'll never know.. Oh Wait, Mat Ward wrote the rules... gotcha.

The only thing that I don't care for is: no guess ranged weapons (its no fun to have 2 Str 10(4) dwarf grudge throwers land on your block turn 1, while 2 cannons tear apart your other infantry block).

I'm curious to see how tournaments will use terrain now, while the wonky rules can be fun i'm not sure how well it would work.

Casper wrote:The only thing that I don't care for is: no guess ranged weapons (its no fun to have 2 Str 10(4) dwarf grudge throwers land on your block turn 1, while 2 cannons tear apart your other infantry block).

It's downright traumatic when combined with the treb or the hellcannon, both of which have their own 5(10) strengths. Played Brets with my skaven last week and his two trebs had a round where they both successfully slammed my blocks. Perfect hit with #1 = 21 hits = 18 dead rats, no save, 2+ wounds. 2" scatter with #2 on a second block = 15 hits = 11 dead rats, no save, 2+ wounds.

This was after my rat ogres had assaulted and bunkered down in the watchtower, and then received a direct shot from a treb. With the new building rules the unit took D6 S10 D6 wounding hits, which splattered two rogres and the master moulder and sent them packing.

I'm not saying that S5(10) stone throwers are broken but ... ok, I am when they cost a mere 90 points

- Salvage

Still not a fan (and I have an Empire army that just got awesome, so I'm not just a hater because my army got hosed).

I still object to the entire magic section of the book. Pissing on everyone because Daemons needed toning down still doesn't sit with me.

And I can't believe so many like 'step-up'. Elves (barring Sea Guard in stupidly large units) and most 'elite' units all got screwed there.

Warhammer used to be two players standing around a table trying to out-think each other. Now it's two players shoving a bunch plastic models towards each other and rolling buckets of dice. I don't like the change.

Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Warhammer used to be two players standing around a table trying to out-think each other. Now it's two players shoving a bunch plastic models towards each other and rolling buckets of dice. I don't like the change.

Yes and having only a couple of soldiers dying when two units baying for blood crash into each other wasn't very realistic. Just because you roll more dice doesn't mean it's any less tactical. And anyway, the more dice you roll, the more predictable result, so arguably you have to think more about what will happen when unit X meets unit Y.

Boss_Salvage wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:I've hated fantasy for years, and my last three batreps are 8th edition batreps, if that tells you anything.

Sometime I would be interested to hear why fantasy haters and abstainers have suddenly returned to the game after skipping 6E & 7E. Perhaps I'll make a thread down in square base land ...

Because frankly 8E is a lot like 7E, which is great because I was expecting I'd be totally alienated with all the dumbed-down changes and go play Infinity at long last. But no, I like pretty much everything about 8E, except for the inane terrain rules and the inexplicable desire of people to play 3k games. I think GeeDub really dropped the ball on toning down magic, as having a caster - preferably a level 4 one - is actually more important than in 7E, but I got over my 'Suicide FTW' stance some time ago

Ultimately 8th is still quite fun to play, and I'm finding it to be a bit faster as well, which means the mayhem just comes harder and faster

- Salvage

For me, it's the movement phase. The fiddly "oh, you've lost an entire 1/4 inch wheeling, and therefore failed your charge" bs.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Had 2 games with lizardmen today.

Still struggling with alot of the movement changes, but the rest is really intuitive, primarily thanks to the rumours over the last couple of months.

Flashman I used a slaan as the only character - BSB, Ranger's Standard, cupped hands, Loremaster, Reroll miscasts, add d6 to cast, 1 enemy wizard discards any 6's for casting. Put him is a unit of 20 templeguard

Threw 8 dice at Birona's timewarp on max power,(affected his unit of templeguard, a unit of 6 kroxigor, 2 units of saurus) irrisistable force came up, rolledan 8 for miscast, rerolled it to a 5 and the cupped hands it to the HE archmage in the unit of white lions, killing 8 white lions.

Light and life are now my favories.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Magic is ridiculously strong now if it gets off max power.

Althought there were some dud spells in 7th ed, on the whole they were balanced (at least until daemons, and skaven for OTT, and beastmen for the suk.

How dare you...

------

I'm trying to decide between a Jabberslythe and a Ghorgon. The Ghorgon is a absolute monster in 8th, but the Jabberslythe can just chill and fly around all my combats and add to CR with its aura, and then rear charge.

Although I don't play, I was flipping through the book and noticed that almost half of the mass is dedicated to stuff that used to be elsewhere... like White Dwarf and the How To series. Seems like a massive waste of money and printing capabilities, not to mention shipping, to produce this tome. That's why I never bought the Big Rulebook for 40K, I grabbed a Black Reach book, it is easier to keep in the tackle box and has all of what I need. Just got to get it spiral bound...

My impressions after watching a ton of games played over the last few weeks:



Monstrous Infantry is ridiculously powerful, although ogres are still the weakest (low WS, strength and no cool special rules)

Regular core close combat infantry (empire troops, skeletons and such) on the other hand is worthless except to hold banners for fortitude and to be a one turn speed bump

If you don't have at least a 4+ armor save you might as well not have one at all so don't bother paying for it

Every army needs a level 3-4 caster at least, maybe more

Template warmachines are ridiculous, especially if they have 7th edition stats (Trebuchet, Mortar, etc)

Fear is meaningless, especially if a BSB is around

Being able to march by passing a leadership test (re-rollable with the BSB) is stupid

For as much of it there is on the board, terrain typically does very little except the occasional goofy effect and -1 to hit. It's almost like playing with an empty table most of the time

Thunderstomp makes monsters twice as good as before since the attacks don't need to roll for hitting screwing over elite troops which I don't think was needed at all

The production value of the new book is really awesome, but it would have been nice if there was a cheaper version with none of the background and pictures we could buy to carry around

Ixquic wrote:Monstrous Infantry is ridiculously powerful, although ogres are still the weakest (low WS, strength and no cool special rules)

I just saw a big-ass unit of Ogres wipe the floor with a giant horde-sized unit of White Lions with 4+ characters. Just sayin'.

Ixquic wrote:Regular core close combat infantry (empire troops, skeletons and such) on the other hand is worthless except to hold banners for fortitude and to be a one turn speed bump

Depends on how many you take. How quickly do you think you can chew through 50+ Night Goblins?

Ixquic wrote:Fear is meaningless, especially if a BSB is around

Agreed. VCs are never going to win a combat.

Ixquic wrote:Being able to march by passing a leadership test (re-rollable with the BSB) is stupid

Another of the many changes I dislike. I can't out-maneouver you anymore. Why do I feel like I'm being punished for being a better player?

Ixquic wrote:For as much of it there is on the board, terrain typically does very little except the occasional goofy effect and -1 to hit. It's almost like playing with an empty table most of the time

I personally refuse to use those silly terrain rules. If someone discovered a bleeding tree in the Empire, they'd burn the whole damn forest down.

Ixquic wrote:Thunderstomp makes monsters twice as good as before since the attacks don't need to roll for hitting

Better at killing: Yes. Better in general: No. They still have to deal with the fact that they're never going to break anyone without support from a giant block unit.

Ixquic wrote:screwing over elite troops which I don't think was needed at all

Didn't you hear? Elite troops were too good. Obviously Black Guard shouldn't be able to chase off Goblins, right?

Ixquic wrote:The production value of the new book is really awesome, but it would have been nice if there was a cheaper version with none of the background and pictures we could buy to carry around

Island of Blood. Hope you need some more High Elf or Skaven models!

Master Llyons wrote:Wow that thing is HUGE can't wait to get my hands on one.

That's what she said?

Seriously, I know someone is as juvenile as me and picked up on that.

What's the big deal with losing Guess weapons? 40k lost it with 5th edition and we as players seem to be doing fine with the change. What is different with Fantasy that would make it so bad?

Maybe because in Fantasy we move in big blocks of troops, in base to base contact with each...its much different than 40k.