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Don't know if it's been done yet, but I was thinking it could be helpful to catalog some of the different ways you can go with building the different Russ variants.

what are some of the different builds for variants of the Russ that have worked well for you?
sponson mm and hf on the Demolisher?
Plasma for the exterminator?

Anyway, post some load outs that work for you here. Remember, it's for posterity!

ok, for a start I'll say that the exterminator (autocannons) is probably the worst out of the lot, dont use it, it's not worth the points

probably the most all round effective (and cheapest) is the vanilla russ (battle cannon S8 AP3, its a steal), hull lascannon is good (as it is for most vairants), personaly i give mine hvy bolter sponsons when Ive got spare points, just for the extra shots at marines (force the armour save) and for clearing firewarriors and the like that might be left over after the battle cannon. Plasma cannon sponsons are also good if your killing the odd TEQ but there are better vairants for that.

my favourite, the Vanquisher, very good for taking out enemt Landraiders etc, usualy no sponsons for me since none of them realy commpliment the main gun. again hull lascannon and usualy Pask, makes it 220 pnts but it generaly manages to kill a Landraider or some such every game (i put kill markings on mine and ive run out of space on the turret ), this is probably going to cop some flak from people so i shall just say that all observations are from my personal experience.

Eradicator is probably the 2nd or 3rd worst vairant, the nova cannon while very good at taking light medium infantry out of cover, they are rather lackluster against anything with MEQ armour or better (denying 4+ cover is blah when they still get 3+ armour) and there are other things in the codex that do . Its not a terrible vehicle but is designed for a roll that is filled by the hellhound and the collosus, however there are uses for it. I would say go with plasma sponsons or hvy bolters to up its dammage potential.

Demolisher is very good at likking TEQ s and vehicles of any description (S10 AP2, it had want to). It is also about the only variant that is effective with hull and sponsoon heavy flamersas having such a short ranged main gun and AV11 rear means that you will be assaulting things up close and personal. plasma again is good if you can afford it, melta's might work though i havnt tried them, however i probably wouldnt worry with hevy bolters. this tank is the original and best city fight tank.

the Executioner, the much lauded supposedly game-breaking tank that eats TEQ s and MC s for breakfast . personaly i would compliment the main gun with the plasma sponsons and a hull lascannon.

Punisher competes with the Exterminator as the worst variant, although the sheer joy of being able to roll 20 dice for that one gun may make up for it, it has a 24" range and no AP. if you must have one i would take hvy bolters all round so you get the extra shooting.

in summary Hvy bolters are all rounders for just getting extra shots while stationary, flamers are only usefull if you plan to get realy close, melta may be good but again you have to get prety close, plasma is very good but its expensive.

dont be afraid to run your Russes Naked, especialy if your short on points, and dont forget they have 2 pintle options. sponsons are good and are often worth their points in the right situations but can sometimes be a waste of points, especialy if their is little wepon synergy. know what the Russ is shooting at and fit it out accordingly.

theres also a thread about the various Russ Variants somewhere in the Articles section you might want to read (though i tend to disagree with some things )

hope that helps


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I would put specific points costs up but I dont have my codex handy

Do not Worry LR Punisher; I will defend you!

24" of range is of little Consequence if in a Pitched Battle you deploy it on your front line, then move it 6"on your first turn; you will most likely be in range to shoot 1st turn.

AP - only truly matters vs vehicles, which are not the Punisher's targets. Vs Troops(you know what you should be shooting at) they will get their normal Armor save or (generally) a 4+ cover save, whichever is better. When you fire the heavy Bolter at those same troops they will generally get the same saves as against the Gatling cannon, so you really do not lose anything there at all.

Proper Loadout should be a Hull Heavy Bolter and a Pintle Stubber; total tank cost 190 points, with an output of 26 shots, 23 of those are Str 5.

I will admit it is not the most versatile or Russ varients, but then neither is the Vanquisher, and people still love those.

Punisher man, AWAY!

Nobody loves vanquishers. They suck just as much as punishers. A platoon command squad hitting 4 models each with 4 flamers kills more marines than a punisher, and it kills way more low save models in cover. And it costs half as much even with a chimera.

Not that the punishers don't have a limited window of usefulness. It's just quite limited.

i have to disagree with Lord Commander Phyrus on the Exterminator. not saying it's better than the "Vanilla" Russ, but it's not that terribad.
the top 3 for me: Vanilla Russ, Demolisher, and Executioner. Sponsons are really based on points left and what i'm facing. i have enough variety
to switch, mix and match.

alarmingrick wrote:top 3 for me: Vanilla Russ, Demolisher, and Executioner.

This. Executioner gets plasma sponsons if I can afford them, Demolisher gets either plasma or maybe multimelta if I'm feeling spontanious, or a lascannon if I decide no sponsons. Vanila Russ gets nothing, and likes it. All of the other tanks are not worth considering, save perhaps the Vanquisher, but that's a highly special case.

The Exterminator is not so much plain bad as overcosted, since you can just take 2 hydras for the same price.

The only tank I'd ever take the hull lascannon on would be a Vanquisher. Otherwise, the hull weapon is pretty much always going to be a heavy flamer. Sponsons are pretty much limited to static tanks for me, probably plasma on the Executioner. Demolishers should probably run without, as they should be moving to get their cannon in range.

Punishers suck. Anything you're wasting 20 shots on a battle cannon blast will help more, except possibly TEQ. And you have lasguns for those.

I always wondered how a squadron of 3 Punishers (With the heavy bolter sponsons and hull-mounted heavy bolter)would do.

ok, clarification here, it seems i need to explain about my dislike of the exterminator. its not a horrible tank, it is however very much over-costed as you are effectively paying 15pnts to replace your battle-cannon with 2 autocannons. maby if they made it 15 or 20 pnts cheaper than the standard Russ it woud be good, but its not. it was intended to be the original infantry killer Russ, but it realy fails allot considering the amount of 3+ saves out there. its not horrible and will eat up orks and such but on average its main gun will kill 1-2 models per turn on average.

as for the Vanquisher, find me something that is as effective at taking out AV14 at range and I'll eat my hat. you can do the mathammer on it and it comes out as being more likely tham any other weapon to kill AV14, its also 72" range which, depending on how big your board is and how many AV13-14 vehicles your opponent is taking, can potentialy kill more stuff than any other single thing, i preface this by saying that I only take one and I always put in pask. with BS3 it is rather lack-luster.


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sorry, that part about finding me a better option does not include Deathstrikes

Irdiumstern wrote:not so much plain bad as overcosted

This is actually true for ALL russes, regardless of the variant.

The only ones that suffer least from this is a LRBT or a Demolisher. Everything else either costs the same and does less damage, or does more damage, but the increase in cost outstrips this gain in effectiveness. Or both, like the punisher.

Artillery does the same job (or better) for cheaper. Talking about specific tanks with specific weapons apart from this is sort of nitpicking this fact (and can be done pretty easily). The difference is that AV14 is scary against long-range shooty based armies, and so can lend a fair amount of survivability to an AV12 horde for those crucial few turns before the cargo gets dumped. They can be useful, but which ones you take with which upgrades should be pretty self-explanatory based on what role they're filling. If there is no specific role for them, don't take them, just like every other unit in the codex.

Lord Commander Phyrus wrote:ok, for a start I'll say that the exterminator (autocannons) is probably the worst out of the lot, dont use it, it's not worth the points

my favourite, the Vanquisher, very good for taking out enemt Landraiders etc,

This must be a joke post.

The Exterminator is not that bad at all. It's quite cheap, very effective at cracking vehicles, and can be configured into quite a dakka monster. I honestly like it more than the Battle Tank. But much like the Battle Tank, it rarely sees play unless I'm playing very casual or Spearhead. Both the Exterminator and the Eradicator are essentially alternatives to Hellhounds/Hydras that trade (a fair bit of) firepower for heavier armor. Whether that trade is worthwhile is up to you.

The Vanquisher on the other hand, is a piece of garbage. Saying it's very good for taking out enemy Landraiders is a flat-out lie. First you miss half the time, then fail to penetrate another 42% of the time, then they may have smoke to reduce chances of damage by another 50%, and then you have to roll a 4+ to stop it. Add that all up, and you're looking at extremely slim odds. I'm not usually one to just look at the hard statistic value, but when you have a 155+ point tank that only gets one shot per turn, and you only have one or two turns before that Raider disgorges terminators into your lines, you have all the makings of the most craptacular variant of them all.

The single shot issue is why I'm not a big fan of the Demolisher either. It just has to be very close, and you could very well scatter off and do nothing.

The only variant I both with anymore is the Executioner. It's expensive, but it is one of the most lethal pieces of weaponry available to the Guard. With 4-5 templates, it has never failed to do at least something to the target, and has a way of exterminating whole squads of MEQs/TEQs, monstrous creatures and even the occasional transport.

Sorry Terminus I think we'll have to agree to disagree. the exterminator is more expensive than the normal russ and has less potential to do dammage. it cant insta-kill alot of things (marine characters im looking at you) and while it does wound on a 2+ MEQ still get their saves. with BS3 you get 2 hits, probably 2 wounds, maby one dead marine if your lucky, and for 15 points up from a battle cannon, that sucks. and yes you can upgrade it to get heaps of shots but that starts costing more points which IMO is throwing good after bad. personaly i dont think its a bad concept, it is however over-costed. and if it works for you go for it, i just find it extreemly underwhelming in my experience.

as for the Vanquisher, you need to read the bit where i said "Pask". also, that particular gun has the the same probability of penetrating AV14 as a meltagun at 6", the is an article floating around somewhere that gives the specific percentages. this basicaly means first turn melta for the guard without having to worry about being assulted whether you kill something or not. With all the cover saves floating about these days there isnt much that is gunna negate that so its a moot point.
Its not the perfect way to kill a Land-raider, nor probably the most cost effective. however it is not bad, and while the executioner might always kill stuff given the chance, sometimes it isnt and it is one of the biggest fire magnets out there and costs a heluva load of points into the bargain (I'm not saying its bad, i realy like it, its just not the be-all-and-end-all).
I also think that the Vanquisher is one of the most fun to play with as the abillity to kill a land raider 1st turn without repercusions is quite fun (ohh, is that a hole in your Land-raider?...watcha gunna do ).
I will However say that the lack of AP1 infuriates me somewhat but hey, you cant win em all.
Now the inverse of what i said in the above paragraph, this might not work for you but it does for me, quite well

Pask makes it even worse, as now you have a 200+ vehicle with a very niche role. There are far better and more cost effective ways of dealing with AV14 (which you seem to admit). If "fun" is the only consideration, then hell, anything goes.

i'm sorry, if taking units witha niche roll was bad I'd stop taking Melta vets. and besides, "Killing Vehicles" is hardly a niche considering its almost mandatory to field them.

The other thing is that more points effective options can be symied with more ease. for example melta-vets in a chimera can be effectively stopped with medium weapons common in most armies, Medusa has no barrage scatters and shaort ranged as well as being on a chimera chasis,Valks+Vets come in at 200 pnts, vends+Vets at 230, these last two also come with the fact that they can be destroyed by an immobilised result.

the good thing with the newer codicies is that there are multiple options for any one task. There are realy no "Bad" units in the IG codex IMO, its just that i think GW got the points wrong on a couple of them.


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and maby statisticaly there are better ways to kill AV14 etc... so OP can decide, whatever suits his play style. Pasquisher suits mine just fine atm.

and realy, if im honest i dont care whether your playing in a tournament, at your FLGS or in your mates garrage, Fun should be the main consideration since its a game and all.

Except melta veterans can destroy any vehicle and also double as scoring units. With a demolition charge, they can also royally mess up MEQ/TEQ. They aren't really niche at all unless you're very unimaginative.

The Vanquisher is basically focused on taking out Land Raiders, and that's it, and at 220 points with Pask and a lascannon isn't even particularly good at it for the points. The main gun's extra die is null and void against Monoliths, the only other big AV14 target you may see (Russes are easily dealt with in assault or side shots by vendettas). The lack of AP1 is the real killer here. A breacher medusa is far more capable at cracking both Raiders and Monoliths, if that's all you want a heavy support choice to do. Or you could take a Manticore, which obliterates Raiders and Monoliths (and Russes) far more reliably, and also wrecks troops while it's at it.

Anything lighter is much better dealt with by Hydras or Vendettas for a fraction of the cost.

I'm not looking for a fight here but you act like side and rear shots are easy to get, which they arent. any opponent worth his salt protects vulnerable side and rear armour by buble wraping or just deploying so you cant.

I am not disagreeing with you on the fact that a, it needs AP1 and b, that there are bigger and better guns out there for killing land raiders + others.

What i am arguing is that it isnt as bad as everyone makes out, lack of AP1 and BS3 hurt it somewhat but i still like it, and it just happens to be what kills landraiders for me (i'm realy not fussed about monoliths because of the phase out thing), I'm not saying that your analysis is invalid, i'm saying that it works for me.

Rear shots are difficult, but side shots for outflanking vendettas or meltaguns are a breeze.

Ailaros wrote:
This is actually true for ALL russes, regardless of the variant.

The only ones that suffer least from this is a LRBT or a Demolisher. Everything else either costs the same and does less damage, or does more damage, but the increase in cost outstrips this gain in effectiveness. Or both, like the punisher.

Artillery does the same job (or better) for cheaper. Talking about specific tanks with specific weapons apart from this is sort of nitpicking this fact (and can be done pretty easily). The difference is that AV14 is scary against long-range shooty based armies, and so can lend a fair amount of survivability to an AV12 horde for those crucial few turns before the cargo gets dumped. They can be useful, but which ones you take with which upgrades should be pretty self-explanatory based on what role they're filling. If there is no specific role for them, don't take them, just like every other unit in the codex.

My counter to that is monsterous creatures. An executioner with plasma sponsons might be almost as expensive as a land raider, but that's five plasma shots on a Wraithlord, all wounding on 5+ but ignoring armor. That's not great odds (roughly about 1/6 cause a wound), I agree, but I think that's still statistically better a chance at killing it than a manticore, which would still have to deal with armor. Not to mention the terminator killing power. Also, 11 rear armor on tanks is underrated when considering the amount of S4 stuff out there. Brought space marines? You gave them a power weapon instead of a powerfist? Too bad, my tank is wading through you and there isn't a thing you can do about it. I think that they each have their uses, and one should never take exclusively one or the other. A favorite of mine (for sufficent amounts of points) is to take basilisks and park a vanilla LRBT in front of them, also shelling. I now have another cannon I can fire seperately, and the scary armor gives the AV12 behind it a cover save, which is much better than nothing and sometimes hard to come by.

daedalus wrote:My counter to that is monsterous creatures.

Okay, sure. Regular russes are definitely terrible against MCs. The problem, as you mention, is price, which gives is a cruddy points:effectiveness ratio.

I mean, consider shooting at a tervagon. Assuming no area terrain and that you always get 2 hits with your 5 plasma cannon, it still going to take you the entire game of shooting at it in order to kill it (and by then, it probably will have rolled doubles any ways). In the case of faster MCs (namely, those moving towards you at all), you're not going to be able to kill it with just the executioner before it starts taking bucketloads of S10 attacks on its rear armor.

Yes, but the rest of the army can support it. But wasn't that the whole point of taking the executioner, so that the rest of your forces would be able to focus on other stuff? Why spend way more points than the monstrous creature for something that can't effectively deal with said monstrous creature by itself?

I guess my point is that yes, things like executioners are better than regular russes, but no russ variant is going to be GOOD against MCs.

As much as it pains me to say this, if you're really dead-set on taking down an MC with vehicles, a 3x hydra battery is probably your best bet.

Terminus wrote:The only variant I both with anymore is the Executioner. It's expensive, but it is one of the most lethal pieces of weaponry available to the Guard.

It's lethal until your opponent realises the full implication of 2" coherency.

Terminus wrote:The Exterminator is not that bad at all. It's quite cheap, very effective at cracking vehicles, and can be configured into quite a dakka monster.

Yes, but as you note...

Terminus wrote: better dealt with by Hydras

As for the Paskquisher. The numbers.

1 shot = .666 hits = .47 pens = .23 immobilized or destroyed (.115 in cover).

What does this mean? It means you spent 205 points in order to have roughly a quarter chance to take it down any given turn, or twice as long as it takes to unload its cargo in order to reliably stop it. Also, if your opponent pops smoke at least once, the odds of you taking it down before it drops its cargo are very slim indeed.

Given that this is a lot of points, and it basically has exactly ONE role, it would only be worth taking if it were actually good in its role (or had others that it did well).

@Ailaros:

Fair enough. You do raise some good points. I still like it for it's anti-terminator goodness, but I suppose the Demolisher is good enough at that for the fact that you can get 1 1/2 for the price of a single fully loaded Executioner.

Ailaros wrote:[

Terminus wrote:The only variant I both with anymore is the Executioner. It's expensive, but it is one of the most lethal pieces of weaponry available to the Guard.

It's lethal until your opponent realises the full implication of 2" coherency.

Right, and then you realize the full implication of reality. 2" coherency is not always, or even often available if you're trying to navigate a battlefield strewn with vehicles and cover. And 5 plasma templates cover an enormous amount of ground, 2" coherency or no. As for your example, assuming only two hits from five templates on a tervigon is an extremely conservative estimate. Anyway, before this turns into an autocannon debate, let's just leave it at that. In my experience, the Executioner has been absolutely ruthless and brutal against everything I've faced.

Terminus wrote:The Exterminator is not that bad at all. It's quite cheap, very effective at cracking vehicles, and can be configured into quite a dakka monster.

Yes, but as you note...

Terminus wrote: better dealt with by Hydras

Indeed. As I've said, Russes trade damage output for armor and tend to cost more, especially when additional weapons are tacked on. Most often it is not (the executioner is the only Russ I use with any regularity anymore... this is easier to stomach considering how ugly the damn tanks are).

As far as my Dakka monster comment, I've had some great success against Orks and Dark Eldar with their flimsy armor using Pask in an Exterminator with heavy bolters and a heavy stubber. Four S8TL shots, nine S6 shots, and three S5 shots all at BS4 shred through vehicles and infantry with great success. I've also used this tank to finally put the nail in the coffic of Nidzilla lists. Of course at 230 points it's not an economical choice by any means, considering that can buy me three Hydras, but it's damn fun.

A small blast shot at BS3 will hit it's target slightly less than 50% of the time. How does assuming 2 hits out of 5 shots make that "extremely conservative"? In any case, the executioner is still much more expensive than its target, and it still doesn't stop it in time, even at 2.5 hits a turn.

As for using it against infantry, it only does serious damage against people who can't figure out how to spread out or use cover. This means that, moreso than other weapons, the effectiveness of the weapon is highly dependent on your opponent's skill as a player.

Also, am I missing something? Why does Pask make an autocannon S8, a heavy bolter S6 and a heavy stubber S5?

Those values are against vehicles.

And again, the point about spreading out and maintaining cover is theorymachine nonsense that doesn't bear out in most actual situations. Close combat, choke points, and terrain all can force models to bunch up more than max coherency (the more they huddle behind cover, the more hits you can score). By your reasoning, small templates are garbage, which is certainly not true. With five attempts rather than a single one like a LRBT/LRD you can consistently get a good amount of wounds on the target. Against monstrous creatures with a large base, the odds of a hit are more like 60% (you need a 5 or less on scatter), but regardless it's about about as effective against monstrous creatures as vendettas and there are few better alternatives available. In fact, other than a CCS/vet squad full of plasma guns or the Vendetta, I can't think of much else in the IG codex that is a better option for dealing with monstrous creatures.

I'm with Terminus on this one, I regularly wrack up a ton of hits with Eldar Missile Launchers firing Plasma Missiles against troops that have either just assaulted a vehicle or have been forced to disembark. The Executioner works very similarly, but w/ S7 AP 2 blasts instead.

remember though if your first one misses by alot then chances are you wont score any wounds

croggy wrote:remember though if your first one misses by alot then chances are you wont score any wounds

If you're referring to the executioner, then that's wrong, because it isn't ordinance barrage.

daedalus wrote:

croggy wrote:remember though if your first one misses by alot then chances are you wont score any wounds

If you're referring to the executioner, then that's wrong, because it isn't ordinance barrage.

dam you is quite right

i have missed alot of hits due to this over site grrrr lol

On that note, unless this has been ruled somewhere (and it may well have), technically the Manticore never counts as firing a multiple barrage even when firing indirectly, since there's only one weapon firing. So each large blast would scatter on its own merit.

Terminus wrote:In fact, other than a CCS/vet squad full of plasma guns or the Vendetta, I can't think of much else in the IG codex that is a better option for dealing with monstrous creatures.

Any plasma with BiD can put wounds on a MC at range, while a full squad of rough riders can kill one outright in a single charge.

The real problem is that the executioner can put down some damage, but it is way more expensive than the target you're trying to kill, which means you need to strip resources slated to kill other stuff just to handle this threat using this method.

Terminus wrote:On that note, unless this has been ruled somewhere (and it may well have), technically the Manticore never counts as firing a multiple barrage even when firing indirectly, since there's only one weapon firing. So each large blast would scatter on its own merit.

My heart skipped a beat when I saw this.

Unfortunately, it says that the Manticore has no turret weapon proper, but instead is upgraded with several single-shot storm eagle rockets. Storm eagle rockets fire "ordnance barrage D3 large blast".

Ailaros wrote:

Terminus wrote:On that note, unless this has been ruled somewhere (and it may well have), technically the Manticore never counts as firing a multiple barrage even when firing indirectly, since there's only one weapon firing. So each large blast would scatter on its own merit.

My heart skipped a beat when I saw this.

Unfortunately, it says that the Manticore has no turret weapon proper, but instead is upgraded with several single-shot storm eagle rockets. Storm eagle rockets fire "ordnance barrage D3 large blast".

So did mine. There's a lot of debate around it, nothing official. The INAT FAQ rules it as multiple barrage, if you use that as a ruling guide. I've used the Multiple Barrage for indirect fire, myself. But now we're getting off track.