Blood Angels 1500pts UPDATED 11/08/2010 85 points left to spend! :D

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**Lycaeus Wrex**

Updated list at the bottom of the topic! Thanks!

L. Wrex

**wuestenfux**

I'd give the Librarian lance and shield. He can use both powers per turn and is cheaper than yours.
Moreover, I'd give each Assault squad a melta and an inferno pistol.
Minimal Assault squads with power fists are questionable since they have not enough ablative wounds.

**Lycaeus Wrex**

Your Librarian is exactly the same price as mine...I'm paying for the Epistolary upgrade, nothing more. Shield I didn't really see any use in, as he's going to be in a vehicle that will be obscured 90% of the time before it drops its cargo.

Yeah, the 6-man Assaults obviously suffer due to lack of bodies, but I like Razorbacks, and having assault cannons for free is pretty cool!

I'm going to give each squad a melta, and an infernus pistol. Anymore ideas on how to spend the remaining points?

L. Wrex

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone? Anything? :S

L. Wrex

**mercer**

I don't think you need sword on the Librarian. Unleash rage can be very cool giving the entire unit re-rolls to hit

Meh on the Scouts. Squad has sniper rifles which are meh and a missile launcher which you won't be using krak on and if you do you won't use the rifles.

Assault Squad is ok but you don't need the extra marine, not adding anything to the unit. Ditch the power weap as 5 Marines don't win combat all that often. Take another of this unit so you have three.

Ditch the Dreadnought or take in pairs.

**Lycaeus Wrex**

Whaa? Omit the power weapons?! They're pretty much mandatory when it comes to dealing with MEQ in CC, not to mention the rather large benefit if the squad was to succumb to the Black Rage.

Hmmm, I could get rid of Sword I suppose, and Unleash Rage would be very cool, especially with the power/force weapon swings being re-rolled. The only reason I included it was so he could insta-gib T4-5 and also threaten vehicles if he chose to peel off for whatever reason.

Scouts are to hold home objectives, thus the long-range firepower and the camo-cloaks. There's no other reason for their inclusion other than that.

If 6 Marines aren't going to stand up in CC then 5 are going to cumble even quicker. I like havng 6 as the extra attacks and body helps, plus it fills the Razorback. I already have 3 Assault Squads...but I am considering having 4.

I would take another Venerable, but unless I made him a Librarian he'd be walking and thus get shot up by everything that can see him. Drop-podding is always an option though...

Thanks for the input thus far, I just don't agree with much of your reasoning I'm afraid....

L. Wrex

**Lycaeus Wrex**

*BUMP* Seriously? No-one knows what this list is missing considering its 200 pooints understrength?

L. Wrex

**Koski**

Well considering you have so many fast razorbacks, and baal preds.

I vote you add Sponson Heavy Flamers to the Baal Preds or Hvy bolters (both will help you deal with being outnumbered)

If possible, just add a full x10 Assault Marine Squad w/ just meltas.

I mean holding that in reserve and using the "descent of angels" special rule is just useful as heck after a few rounds have panned out. And it's not a major reliance, just a good reinforcement.

**mercer**

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:Whaa? Omit the power weapons?! They're pretty much mandatory when it comes to dealing with MEQ in CC, not to mention the rather large benefit if the squad was to succumb to the Black Rage.

Hmmm, I could get rid of Sword I suppose, and Unleash Rage would be very cool, especially with the power/force weapon swings being re-rolled. The only reason I included it was so he could insta-gib T4-5 and also threaten vehicles if he chose to peel off for whatever reason.

Scouts are to hold home objectives, thus the long-range firepower and the camo-cloaks. There's no other reason for their inclusion other than that.

If 6 Marines aren't going to stand up in CC then 5 are going to cumble even quicker. I like havng 6 as the extra attacks and body helps, plus it fills the Razorback. I already have 3 Assault Squads...but I am considering having 4.

I would take another Venerable, but unless I made him a Librarian he'd be walking and thus get shot up by everything that can see him. Drop-podding is always an option though...

Thanks for the input thus far, I just don't agree with much of your reasoning I'm afraid....

L. Wrex

How many times 5 Space Marines won combat? Not a lot is the answer. So why throw in 5 Marines into combat just because you "may" get black rage. You'll get wasted.

Unleash rage is better

Re-read my point on the Scouts wargear setup.

A single Marine won't make any difference. Six will fall just as quickly as five. You're only taking six to fill the Razorback.

You need Drop Pods in min three.

No worries on the input, you disagree because you fail to understand list building and getting the most and benefits from your units

Read my advice again and hopefully should come clearer.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, Chaplain maybe to get re-rolls on other squads? Honur Guard perhaps for that 200 points?

**Nine_breaker**

I'm kind of with everyone else on this one. It's a good list, just needs some tweaking to optimise.

-I see no reason for the epistolary upgrade on librarians unless you go for two CC or two shooty powers. Yes you can lance then sword on the charge, but is 1 str 8 lance worth 50 points on the charge? Might as well save the 50 points for something else (like another Librarian).

-Scouts don't really fit with the way the army works. Everything you have is mobile, so why not just grab another 5 guys in a razorback with a HB or LC and have that hold your home objectives instead?

-Don't expect your 5-6 man marine squads to survive CC, so drop the power weapons to support grabbing more assault squads in razorbacks in general.

-Put HB sponsons on your Baal preds. Moving 6 and unleashing 10 shots per pred can lay low almost anything after a couple salvos. I run a pair of them in any game I play and they are versatile enough to take out horde and with focus fire they take out MCs just as easily.

-Unleash Rage is nice on the Librarian Dread, but I think you get more bang for your buck by giving him Might of Heroes. I think the math-hammer on it gives the dread more combat resolution on average.

As for filling up the points, go for a normal JP squad with meltas as a counter assault unit that runs behind your iron wall. Works well for me.

Good Luck.

**wuestenfux**

No surprise to me. Common view of the 'community'.

We'll surely be willing to help out with an updated list.

**Lycaeus Wrex**

mercer wrote:No worries on the input, you disagree because you fail to understand list building and getting the most and benefits from your units

I raised my eyebrow at this point. I'd hardly say 'I fail' just because I disagree with your advice. I disagree, yes because I have a different opinion but that hardly amounts to me 'fail[ing] to understand list building'. Regardless, this point is moot and detracts from the topic...

Updated List:

HQ

Libarian
- Epistolary
- Unleash Rage, Sanguine Sword
- Attached to Assault Squad IV

150pts

Lbrarian
- Blood Lance, Unleash Rage
- Attached to Assault Squad I

100pts

TROOPS

Assault Squad I
- Meltagun
- Sergeant w/ Infernus pistol
- Razorback w/ Assault cannons.

180pts

Assault Squad II
- Meltagun
- Sergeant w/ Infernus pistol
- Razorback w/ Assault cannons.

180pts

Assault Squad III
- Flamer
- Sergeant w/ Hand flamer
- Razorback w/ Assault cannons.

170pts

Assault Squad IV
- Flamer
- Sergeant w/ Hand flamer
- Razorback w/ Assault cannons.

170pts

ELITES

Sanguianry Priest
- attached to Assault squad III

50pta

Librarian Dreadnought
- Wings of Sanguinius, Unleash Rage

175pts

FAST ATTACK

Baal Predator I
- TL Assault cannons
- Heavy bolters

145pts

Baal Predator II
-TL Assault cannons
- Heavy bolters

145pts

TOTAL = 1465

I could upgrade the two flamer squads to meltas if I wanted to, put I felt it would be a bit more characterful if the Epistolary went with a flamer squad and mashed things in CC, whilst the Lance Librarian joined a melta squad and went after vehicles. Dropped the Scouts and used the points for the second Librarian.

I still really like the Librarian Dread so I'm not willing to drop him. That and having three Psykers is both fun and quite nasty. Upgraded the Baals and still have 85 points left...The only thing I can really think to spend it on is extra Marines or a power weapon or two, both of which don't seem to be highly recommended. :S Any ideas?

Thanks for the help so far!

L. Wrex

**wuestenfux**

Looks better. I'd drop the Epistolary and add two Rifleman Dreads.
The remaining Librarians should have the shield to protect your armoured wall.

**Lycaeus Wrex**

I've thrown a Sanguinary Priest into one of the flamer Assaults for some FnP goodness. I'll probably pull the dirty trick of leaving him in there to add a few inches to the radius.

35 points left...hmmm....

L. Wrex

**CptCortez128**

not a fan off the razor lists popping up from this dex. but seems sound. with 3 pyskers id be tempted to throw in 2 fear of the darkness spells. ive found this very effective to help me isolate targets and leave myself out of charge range from counter assaults.

Im with you on the libby dread, i find it works very well ( he took out a sqd of 50 guardsmen in my last game in one round which was funny... although that probably doesnt add up to his point cost! )

another point is 5 man assault sqds just dont last long enough, i much prefer 10 assault marines with sang priest w/ jump packs. its scary how much firepower these guys can take! and with FC they are very good in cc to.

I feel this list isnt to close combat effective, yes the vehicles are fast, but it takes time to jump out of a tank, and if you miss first turn and loose your razors, its a long walk to be effective.

maybe replace 2 5 mans and 2 razors with a 10 man ass sqd and shift your sang priest to them. i promise you wont be dissapointed!

Take a look at my listed posted here and see what you think.

liam

**mercer**

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:
mercer wrote:No worries on the input, you disagree because you fail to understand list building and getting the most and benefits from your units

I raised my eyebrow at this point. I'd hardly say 'I fail' just because I disagree with your advice. I disagree, yes because I have a different opinion but that hardly amounts to me 'fail[ing] to understand list building'. Regardless, this point is moot and detracts from the topic...

Updated List:

HQ

Libarian
- Epistolary
- Unleash Rage, Sanguine Sword
- Attached to Assault Squad IV

150pts

Lbrarian
- Blood Lance, Unleash Rage
- Attached to Assault Squad I

100pts

TROOPS

Assault Squad I
- Meltagun
- Sergeant w/ Infernus pistol
- Razorback w/ Assault cannons.

180pts

Assault Squad II
- Meltagun
- Sergeant w/ Infernus pistol
- Razorback w/ Assault cannons.

180pts

Assault Squad III
- Flamer
- Sergeant w/ Hand flamer
- Razorback w/ Assault cannons.

170pts

Assault Squad IV
- Flamer
- Sergeant w/ Hand flamer
- Razorback w/ Assault cannons.

170pts

ELITES

Sanguianry Priest
- attached to Assault squad III

50pta

Librarian Dreadnought
- Wings of Sanguinius, Unleash Rage

175pts

FAST ATTACK

Baal Predator I
- TL Assault cannons
- Heavy bolters

145pts

Baal Predator II
-TL Assault cannons
- Heavy bolters

145pts

TOTAL = 1465

I could upgrade the two flamer squads to meltas if I wanted to, put I felt it would be a bit more characterful if the Epistolary went with a flamer squad and mashed things in CC, whilst the Lance Librarian joined a melta squad and went after vehicles. Dropped the Scouts and used the points for the second Librarian.

I still really like the Librarian Dread so I'm not willing to drop him. That and having three Psykers is both fun and quite nasty. Upgraded the Baals and still have 85 points left...The only thing I can really think to spend it on is extra Marines or a power weapon or two, both of which don't seem to be highly recommended. :S Any ideas?

Thanks for the help so far!

L. Wrex

You disagree because you don't understand my feedback, it's not you disagree because it's poor advice or utter rubbish, which is my point and what I mean so it's not a moot point at all, however I see you've actually listened to some of my suggestions so doesn't look like a moot point then does it? Anyway...

As for the list it's got better structure now, except for the solo Dreadnought. I'd drop that and get some Priests in there giving your Marines FnP because they have to get out of Razorbacks to use the meltas and they will be shot at next turn, extremely useful and much better than a single Dreadnought. Though if you're not willing to drop him then that's up to you, but it's a single target which can be easily taken out - it really has little point in the army especially with two Librarians. Priests would be more benefit

**wuestenfux**

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:I've thrown a Sanguinary Priest into one of the flamer Assaults for some FnP goodness. I'll probably pull the dirty trick of leaving him in there to add a few inches to the radius.

35 points left...hmmm....

L. Wrex

Well, a mech list doesn't need a Sang. Priest.
A 5 men Assault squad dies anyway if its going to be targeted, no matter if it has FNP or not.