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This is probably a bit of a silly question but:

I know you must take your best save.

Say you are a person with an invunerable save of 4 + and an armour save of 5+

You get wounded by say, a lasgun.

You are also being null zoned.

This means that your invunerable save is only going to work 25% of the time, accounting your successfull rerolls.

So your armour (which will save you about a third of the time) has a better chance of keeping you alive.

Does this mean your armour save is now your 'best save', or do you still do your invunerable even though it is techincally not as likley to save you so is not your 'best save'?

As I said this probably has an obvious answer that will have me kicking myself but ah well!

Some say save is a stat--use the best one listed.

Some say the result is what matters, so do the math.

I tend to agree with the first group, but it is something worth discussing regardless.

There are three common schools of thought on the multiple save issue:

1 - The 'best' save is the one with the lowest printed value.
2 - The 'best' save is the one with the best statistical chance of saving the model
3 - The reference to always taking the best save is simply pointing out that you have the option to choose the save that has the best chance of saving the model, rather than being intended to force players to calculate probabilities in the middle of the game. Players can simply choose which save to use.

Which of those 3 is the 'correct' interpretation has been a matter of extended debate, with no clear resolution. You'll have to discuss it with your opponent until GW get around to FAQing it.

Being that not everyone is a mathematician(or even knows how to calculate odds on the spot, or even has committed to memory the value of all odds in any given situationduring the game); I would say best save should be assumed as Lowest printed value.

Is it within the RAW; yes, and no. The RAW states Best save available; not Best save situational; generally if a model has an Armor and an Invulnerable save the Armor save is equal or better; there are a few situations where this is not the case(Cybork Bodies and no 'eavy armor for instance), and even those 2 options are only really "better" than Cover Saves in Close combat or when against weapons that ignore cover saves. However in some of those situations(Close combat vs standard marines while in the area of effect for null Zone for earlier said Cyborks) The armor save is (slightly) better.

Edit: But as said earlier discuss it with your opponent pregame if you think the situation will arise.

Euch.

This is gonna go well.

I think Insianiak sums it up perfectly. There are no clear rules in this case, and "best available" save could in fact mean "best available under the current conditions." The bottom line is that "best" can mean a lot of different things. Discuss with your opponent.

As for how I house rule it, I'd say whichever save has the best chance of keeping your guys alive. That's what "best" means to me. And I'll even crunch the numbers for you if you want.

I think peeps should be aware of the common english involved with this. 'May' and 'must'...

IIRC "A model may always take the best save availiable..." therfore we go with the houseruling above, ie your choice.

Orki wrote:I think peeps should be aware of the common english involved with this. 'May' and 'must'...

IIRC "A model may always take the best save availiable..." therfore we go with the houseruling above, ie your choice.

Uh. Not at all?

Page 24, "Models With More Than One Save":

"Sometimes, a model will have a normal armour save
and a separate invulnerable save – a good example is a
Space Marine Chaplain who is protected by both
power armour and a Rosarius-generated force field.
As if this wasn’t enough the model might be in cover
as well. In these cases, the model only ever gets to
make one saving throw, but it has the advantage of
always using the best available save."

The words "may" and "must" are nowhere to be found in that entire entry.

Then I recall incorrectly... As for my use of may and must: It was a point of reference anyway, not a quote.

Common sense wins this one then (as usual RAW is just a guideline for 'The most important rule'). Use the 'best', which is not explicitly the lowest or the prettiest, or your 'lucky' dude's etc...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit -

SaintHazard wrote:
The words "may" and "must" are nowhere to be found in that entire entry.

As already stated, it wasn't my point, but that neither word occurs makes it even more so then! :d Bad GW, naughty GW! We must spank them... Ooh a spanking, a spanking!!

Me first!

Pff.. Just let the person taking the save choose what he thinks is best for him. After all best means the one that gives you the best chance of surviving so unless you feel like mathcrunching every time it comes to it.

Sometimes I think GW should get people from their legal department to read over their rules before they go to print...

Orki wrote:It was a point of reference anyway, not a quote.

Really? Because this:

Orki wrote:IIRC "A model may always take the best save availiable..." therfore we go with the houseruling above, ie your choice.

certainly looks like a quote to me.

Not the quotation marks. Those denote a "quote."

(See what I did there?)



Not that it matters, I get your point.

SaintHazard wrote:

Orki wrote:It was a point of reference anyway, not a quote.

Really? Because this:

Orki wrote:IIRC "A model may always take the best save availiable..." therfore we go with the houseruling above, ie your choice.

certainly looks like a quote to me.

Not the quotation marks. Those denote a "quote."

But that's not even the 'may' and 'must' that I was referring to. I should've been clearer. I'm well aware of what a quote is!

SaintHazard wrote:
(See what I did there?)



Not that it matters, I get your point.

Good good.

Just for clarity though, I said 'may' and 'must' in reference to general english. Hence ' ', not " ". However "IIRC "A model may always take the best save availiable..."" was clearly a quote, albeit one I recalled incorrectly. Hence the IIRC...

(See what you did there?)

But i'm glad you get my point, as thats exactly what I was getting at (though not particularly well expressed it appears!). The rules don't explicitly state anything clearly enough to avoid potential differences in interpretation, nor do they enforce the opinion that the lowest number is your 'best' save etc. The usual GW sloppiness, whos arses are covered by the most important rule, and one which is increasingly appropriate as a cover-all disclaimer for thier lack of integrity and clarity.

I am however rather pleased that you can see past your own wit to the point beyond, it makes a refreshing change from many of the posts i've seen among the masses here and elsewhere online. Ta. (And i'm not being sarcastic for a change)

The intellectual dick-slapping among the geek comunity gets so tiresome sometimes. I think i'll go back to my choppy/sticky/painty corner now...

The word "advantage" implies that at no point is taking the 'best' save a liability. I.E, whichever the player percieves as the best save.

If a model MUST always take the best save, and there are possible situations in which he is at a disadvantage for doing so, it goes against the RAI.

Interesting statement with no foundation.

The best save is the one which is the most accomplished at preventing wounds. The function of a save is to stop wounds, so any attempt to pretend the phrase "best save" means anything other than "the most likely way you wont suffer a wound" has no basis in the rules.

vikings vs mafia wrote:The word "advantage" implies that at no point is taking the 'best' save a liability. I.E, whichever the player percieves as the best save.

If a model MUST always take the best save, and there are possible situations in which he is at a disadvantage for doing so, it goes against the RAI.

Please quote the rule that states the model MUST take the best save available to him.

Especially after I just quoted the rule that says nothing at all about having to do so.

Pay attention, please.

AH, this thread again.

Insaniak summed it up fine with his post.

For the record, I tend to see it played that "best" means the lowest number.