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Hey Dakka, The people at my FLGS tell me that spears are two handed, therefore I can not use them with my sheilds in the same combat. Normally I trust them with no questions cause they are all very good players but this one bothers me a bit. Firstly, when I look in my mini BRB from Isle of Blood, spears do not have the 2 handed special rules. Secondly the skaven from IOB have the sheilds and spears and I do not see why GW would make things too complicated for beginning players. Lastly, it just seems more logical to run a spear with a sheild cause you can bunker behind it and jab at the people with the spear resting on the sheild like you would rest a pool stick on your hands. Normally I would just go with the flow but I have already converted all of my clan rats to have spears and sheilds and if I can only use one I do not want to have to pay that extra 1/2 a point (I know, its so much) on like 200 models.

Thanks in advance dakkites,
Carbon

They're one handed. If you check the weapon listings in the BRB, you'll see that certain weapons specifically have the "Requires two hands" rule, and spears do not.

So they work with shields for the armor save, but you DO lose the 6+ parry, as spears are not hand weapons.

What he said. Spears are used one-handed and can be used with shields.

As I understand it, shields benefit models in the following way:

Two handed weapon + shield = +1 AS vs shooting. No benefit in CC. (Dwarf hammerers can do this)

Hand weapon + Shield = +1 AS vs shooting and CC. 6+ parry save in CC.

Other weapon + Shield (Lance, spear, magic weapon) = +1 AS vs shooting and CC. No parry save. (Empire Knights, your skaven).

Though I'm prepared to be corrected.

That's how it reads.

There not pikes a 2-handed weapon in which you can use a buckler or no shield. Pikes can attack 4 ranks back and groups pikemen can destroy calvarlry very easy

I do not know a single rank and file unit that has spears and doesn't have a shield option.

Correct me if I am wrong though.

The real question here is what sort of "very good player" doesn't know how to read the weapon descriptions in the BRB?

No the bigger question is how can a whole FLGS not know a basic rule or not be able to read their own army book where it would no doubt tell them.

LordWynne wrote:There not pikes a 2-handed weapon in which you can use a buckler or no shield. Pikes can attack 4 ranks back and groups pikemen can destroy calvarlry very easy

?? I am not sure what you are trying to say here...

On another note, thanks for all the responses, I was just double checking, thats what I had thought, I just wanted to make sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, only 3 people thought otherwise. 2 Of my friends were playing and one charged the other and the other asked "are you going into combat with your sheilds or your spears" and the other one just kind of went along as he is new to fantasy. Then I asked one of my other friends and he said that they were also 2 handed. It is not the whole FLGS it was just a few people that came to that conclusion mid game.

syanticraven wrote:No the bigger question is how can a whole FLGS not know a basic rule or not be able to read their own army book where it would no doubt tell them.

Oh snap!

In fact you dont have an option - you MUST use spears, you cannot choose to "use spears" unless you have another special weapon.

And, as above - spears are very definitely one handed.

nosferatu1001 wrote:In fact you dont have an option - you MUST use spears, you cannot choose to "use spears" unless you have another special weapon.

And, as above - spears are very definitely one handed.

So does that mean even if I have a hand weapon option on a model (Eg HE spearman has shield, light armour, spear and hand weapon) I can't take the option for shield and hand weapon in CC?

Correct. This was changed from 7th to 8th. In 7th you could choose to use your HW or your spear, but now in 8th you MUST use a special weapon if you have it. Some players may not have noticed this change.

It isn't really a very "In your face" note in the book which is probably why it has gone largely unnoticed.

Re-reading through the weapons section though it does make sense. Shame though, would've maybe spearmen and the like a bit more useful.

Spears + Shield = +1AS vs Shooting, CC, and fight in additional rank but NO Ward Save

As stated, if you're equipped with a special weapon, you cannot choose your default (original) weapon for the sake of a ward save. I'm looking at YOU Chaos Warriors!

Now there are two varients of the rules for spears.

One for cavelry and one for on foot. Both doing different things. Note that for cavelry the rules say that spears only count on the charge and afterwards they revert to their hand weapons. And so from the second and subsiquent assault phases you will gain the 6+ parry.

However foot troups don't get this option and always use spears. Conversly they only don't benefit from spears on foot when they charge.

Note also the benefits for mounted spears and foot spears are different. Makes spears a little more complex to comprehend really.

Ceorron - Reread the last sentence in the parry save text.

Mounted models never get the parry save.

Lehnsherr wrote:Ceorron - Reread the last sentence in the parry save text.

Mounted models never get the parry save.

Ah yes sorry I stand corrected.