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Since Pretre probably doesn't want my input in his thread, here's one for myself, Melissa and anyone else who's interested. I'm not looking for specifics here, just ideas that would either expand the unit roster or changes that would make the Witch Hunters more characterful. Feel free to add suggestions of Inquisitorial/Arbite/Ministorum units, too.

Canonesses and Palatines:
SoB Heroines can choose either the Holy Hatred rule or the ability to dual-wield pistols like the Seraphim.

New Elites choice:
Combat medic
A squad made up of one Sister Hospitaller and 4 Celestian Bodyguards. The Hospitaller grants a FNP medic aura to all units within 6", and the Bodyguards replace their normal Holy Hatred rule with ATSKNF (so they can choose to retreat from combat). Basically an anti-Sanguinary Priest, the non-combatant Hospitaller runs around in cover keeping the Sisters alive, while the bodyguards keep the Hospitaller alive.

Celestians:
All bolter-armed Celestians are equipped with Sarissas.

Repentia:
A charging Repentia squad grants all allied Sororitas units in the same combat the Hit and Run rule for that turn. This helps to emphasise their search for redemption, by letting them throw themselves into harm's way to cover their Sisters' retreat.

New Dedicated Transport:
Repressor
Provides a different feel to the Rhino. Maybe up the front armour by 1 for the riot 'dozer blade.

Penitent Engine: (VikingScott and Pretre)
"I WILL BE REDEEMED!" upgrade - The penitent redoubles their efforts to kill the enemy if the engine comes under fire or takes damage.

Make Repentia have an invun. They need that to not suck.

So far so good but is this a WH 'dex or a SoB 'dex? So far I see no Inq.

I have no problem with SOB ideas in the other thread. That's the whole point.

I love what you have put in so far!

The Repentia rule is very characterful ("RUN! We will hold the heretics!")

I always thought Sarissas were missing from the troops.

Not sure about the Combat Medic, but the idea is solid. How about being really mean about the anti-sang priest idea and making a character or choice that takes away FNP from units within 6 or 12"?


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I agree with VS as well on the Repentia invuln.

Also Zealots/Redemptionists/Militia should see a comeback in any new SOB dex.

Immos should play a greater role in the codex, maybe move to Fast Attack.

There should be some sort of Put the Fear of the Emperor unit or ability available to mess with morale.


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Do repressors get a siege shield or a dozer blade? Siege shield would definitely allow armor 12, those things are solid.

VikingScott wrote:So far so good but is this a WH 'dex or a SoB 'dex? So far I see no Inq.

Like I said, if you've got ideas for the Ordo Hereticus, share them.

What about a 'blank' type character or unit for Hereticus?

Sisters of Silence would be awesome, if they were still around.

Basic Inq for elite. Large (i mean about the same size armoury as now) load of options. Mostly just needs a point adjustment. Retinue should stay.

Penitent witches. (think pysker battle squad)

Inq Lord. Select a disapline to increase one stat. Huge arrray of options. Retinue should stay. Iron Will should stay.

pretre wrote:I have no problem with SOB ideas in the other thread.

You claimed that anyone who disagreed with you and thought your idea was bad was "off topic". So I'm not buying this statement (I doubt anyone else is, either).

My own suggestions are, summarized, here. Suffice it to say, Sisters need:

* More Ecclesiarchy presence. They are the army of the Ecclesiarchy, and yet for some reason the Frateris Templar were removed from their list during the transition to third edition.

* A wider selection of units. This requires making up new fluff. Possible units played around with in the link I gave are bikers based off of chivalric knights ("jousting" enemies with power spears and/or eviscerators), Novitiates (recent graduates from the Schola Progenium), a unit of snipers who use accurized weapons and anti-material rifles, and so on.

* A reworked Palatine. I simply completely reworked it (see "Angelis Imperial"), making her based off of the veteran celestian superior, and added equipment to both her and the canoness in order to

* Rebalanced units. Repentia, Penitent Engines, Arco-Flagellants, and so on have good concepts, but poor execution. Some of these need massive reworking, but others, like say Arco-Flagellants (minor decrease in points cost) or Dominions (adding Scouts), are potentially good with merely minor tweaking.

* More vehicles. Sisters have basically one vehicle unique to them. For a fifth edition Imperial codex, this is unaccceptable. Vehicles that are there need to be rebalanced as well, and the Immolator could be reworked to be unique to Sisters without too much of a change.

* Easier to use Acts of Faith. They aren't all that hard right now, but most things are being simplified. Making them into a simple LD check would suffice, I think.

Assassins need a point adjustment (the main temples)
. The Lone wolf KP rule might fit.
Apart from that they'er fine.

Eternal warrior needs to be implemented.

pretre wrote:Not sure about the Combat Medic, but the idea is solid. How about being really mean about the anti-sang priest idea and making a character or choice that takes away FNP from units within 6 or 12"?

That's not quite what I meant. I was thinking "Medic that hides at the back instead of charging ahead, power sword swinging", not "Medic that cancels out other medics medical attention". That would be more a DE thing, I think.

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Do repressors get a siege shield or a dozer blade? Siege shield would definitely allow armor 12, those things are solid.

I think the FW Repressors' 'dozer blade is between the two sizes. I do prefer the look of the siege shield, though, and it makes the Repressor better at crushing heretics than a standard Rhino.

Death cult assassins

How about a rule where they aren't placed until turn 2 and they infiltrate? Kinda like lictors?

ISTs should get either DS or a Valk DT.

Penitent engines need a point adjustment. They need to stay as the model is way to cool to lose.

Melissia wrote:

pretre wrote:I have no problem with SOB ideas in the other thread.

You claimed that anyone who disagreed with you and thought your idea was bad was "off topic". So I'm not buying this statement (I doubt anyone else is, either).

My own suggestions are, summarized, here.

You just can't let things go, can you?
That's not at all what I said and thanks for dragging it into Alex's thread.


Back ON topic, Melissia's fandex has a lot of good ideas for units that could be incorporated into a new SOB dex, including the jousters, new flame vehicles, heavy tanks, etc. I don't agree with all of it, but it has a lot of stuff that could be used.


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AlexHolker wrote:

pretre wrote:Not sure about the Combat Medic, but the idea is solid. How about being really mean about the anti-sang priest idea and making a character or choice that takes away FNP from units within 6 or 12"?

That's not quite what I meant. I was thinking "Medic that hides at the back instead of charging ahead, power sword swinging", not "Medic that cancels out other medics medical attention". That would be more a DE thing, I think.

Gotcha. Personally, I'm almost certain there will be a FNP faith act in the next redo, just off of the way they've been going.

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Do repressors get a siege shield or a dozer blade? Siege shield would definitely allow armor 12, those things are solid.

I think the FW Repressors' 'dozer blade is between the two sizes. I do prefer the look of the siege shield, though, and it makes the Repressor better at crushing heretics than a standard Rhino.

Hehe. Maybe give the repressor a special DefRolla type attack on Tank Shock? Inflicts 1d6 st5 5 hits against tank shocked units?

Perhaps a tank-shrine? Units within 6" gain stubborn?
And have it with a flamestorm cannon (S6 AP3)

VikingScott wrote:Perhaps a tank-shrine? Units within 6" gain stubborn?
And have it with a flamestorm cannon (S6 AP3)

Yeah, especially since I have a feeling the Book of Awesome may go away.

As for flamestorm cannons, I think we'll see a lot of these in any update. I'm hoping for Retributors to get man-portable versions.

Prisoner unit.

The repentant heritics who didn't do a crime enough for arco-flallagation or interment into a penitent engine just get shoved towards the enemy.

So a fearless unit that aims to overwhelm the enemy?

Removing the Book of St. Lucius would be like removing ATSKNF, Synapse, or Mob Rule. I doubt they will.

VikingScott wrote:Prisoner unit.

The repentant heritics who didn't do a crime enough for arco-flallagation or interment into a penitent engine just get shoved towards the enemy.

So a fearless unit that aims to overwhelm the enemy?

Maybe similar to penal legion? I don't know about fearless though. The scum that were not cool enough for arco or such are probably pretty weak willed.

Sevitors as troops.
With a lasgun mounted on the arm. T4 BS3 Sv4+?

HS version has relentless and heavy weapons?


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Penitent engine upgrade:

I WILL BE REDEEMED!

The times it gets hit but doesn't die the stronger/faster/more attacks it gets?

VikingScott wrote:Sevitors as troops.
With a lasgun mounted on the arm. T4 BS3 Sv4+?

HS version has relentless and heavy weapons?

If you're going to go for servitor, I'd say a heavier weapon. Probably have to give them the Mindlock rule too and allow servo arm (PF) in the unit.

I agree with Repressor as a DT.
And it should have a seige shield.

MAybe have Arbites as a choice? Representing The Inquisitor recruiting local forces?

VikingScott wrote:Penitent engine upgrade:

I WILL BE REDEEMED!

The times it gets hit but doesn't die the stronger/faster/more attacks it gets?

lol that would be funny.

Have it surge forward d6" for each time a unit shoots at it and doesn't kill/immo it?

WH inquisitors should have TDA as an option. The DH do why not the WH?


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pretre wrote:

VikingScott wrote:Penitent engine upgrade:

I WILL BE REDEEMED!

The times it gets hit but doesn't die the stronger/faster/more attacks it gets?

lol that would be funny.

Have it surge forward d6" for each time a unit shoots at it and doesn't kill/immo it?

That sounds good.
Add in that it gains an extra Attack for ever roll on the vehicle damage chart that doesn't kill it (in addition to going forward for being hit)

VikingScott wrote:WH inquisitors should have TDA as an option. The DH do why not the WH?

Their faith is their armor. TDA is for the weak?

WH inquisitors are no more or less faithful than DH inquisitors.

pretre wrote:

VikingScott wrote:Penitent engine upgrade:

I WILL BE REDEEMED!

The times it gets hit but doesn't die the stronger/faster/more attacks it gets?

lol that would be funny.

Have it surge forward d6" for each time a unit shoots at it and doesn't kill/immo it?

That sounds good.

Add in that it gains an extra Attack for ever roll on the vehicle damage chart that doesn't kill it (in addition to going forward for being hit)

And allow it to contact an enemy unit as a charge for the surge.

They'd be mean then. "Should I melta it and chance getting charged?"


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Melissia wrote:WH inquisitors are no more or less faithful than DH inquisitors.

Want to add anything to the discussion that isn't a refutation? Notice the smiley face next to my TDA comment, btw.

DH have faith as their shield. Yet they have both TDA and the icon of the just.


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The Psychic powers need rehashing.

Word of the emporer is fine.
Scourging is fine.
The one that permanatly reducs LD is fine.
Hammer of the Witchs should be free as it's kinda specialist.
The forced morale check needs to have a modifier on it.

VikingScott wrote:DH have faith as their shield. Yet they have both TDA and the icon of the just.

Yeah, I would say some Inquisitors are very faithful. And even the faithful don't mind a little extra insurance.

I always remember that crazy Hereticus inquisitor that went after Eisenhorn. That didn't end up well for him, but I bet he was faithful.

pretre wrote:

pretre wrote:

VikingScott wrote:Penitent engine upgrade:

I WILL BE REDEEMED!

The times it gets hit but doesn't die the stronger/faster/more attacks it gets?

lol that would be funny.

Have it surge forward d6" for each time a unit shoots at it and doesn't kill/immo it?

That sounds good.

Add in that it gains an extra Attack for ever roll on the vehicle damage chart that doesn't kill it (in addition to going forward for being hit)

And allow it to contact an enemy unit as a charge for the surge.

They'd be mean then. "Should I melta it and chance getting charged?"

I think we just finished this unit! Score! One down already!

VikingScott wrote:DH have faith as their shield. Yet they have both TDA and the icon of the just.


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The Psychic powers need rehashing.

Word of the emporer is fine.
Scourging is fine.
The one that permanatly reducs LD is fine.
Hammer of the Witchs should be free as it's kinda specialist.
The forced morale check needs to have a modifier on it.

With the exception of Divine Pronouncement, all the Psy Powers always felt Meh. Where's our 'draw a line of doom'?

Divine Pro does have a leadership mod btw, difference between Inq Ld and the Target's Ld. So Inq Lord vs TWC? "Go ahead and make a morale check on a 6, please."

Hmm.... A line of doom I don't feel is too fluffy. A line of moral checks more so. All at the difference in LD.

VikingScott wrote:
I think we just finished this unit! Score! One down already!

Penitent engine upgrade:

I WILL BE REDEEMED! For each penetrating or glancing hit suffered by the Penitent Engine, it gains +1 Attack in the next assault phase. In addition, for each unit that fires at it during a shooting phase, it can take a rage move (+d6 towards nearest enemy) after all of the unit's shooting is resolved (if it still can move!). If it contacts an enemy unit during this extra movement, it counts as having charged and is locked in assault.

Now to get Alex to put it in the first post.