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1500 Chaos List

HQ

Terminator Lord - 165
- Daemon Weapon
- Mark of Khorne

Elites

3 Terminators – 105
- 3 Combi-Meltas
3 Terminators - 105
- 3 Combi-Meltas

Troops
10 Chaos Marines - 175
- Plasma Gun
- Rhino
10 Khorne Berzerkers - 295
- 2 Plasma Pistols
- Rhino
- Daemonic Possession
10 Chaos Marines – 165
- Flamer
- Rhino

Heavy Support

Vindictator - 145
- Daemonic Possession
Vindictator - 145
- Daemonic Possession
Defiler - 150

So any comments or criticisms? I'm not much of a competitive player, so no mentions of dual-Lash Princes

I like the basic concept. A bunch of scoring troops, move & fire heavy support, cheap elites to open up tanks/transports, and a cheap & cheerful choppy lord.

That said, it does have some issues.

The Khornate daemon weapon runs you a 1/3 chance every round of dealing yourself a wound and not attacking at all. Not usually a good option. If you want a daemon weapon, I'd say go Nurgle or maybe unmarked. They both improve your odds of wounding and only have a 1/6 chance of making you sad on any given round of combat. The other good weapon option for a Lord is Lightning Claws. Again, the improve your odds of wounding, and give you yet another attack, with no chance of hitting himself in the face. Pretty nice.

The big downside to putting your Lord in Terminator armor is the lack of transport options/mobility, unless you buy a land raider; which is pricy in 1500. You can deep strike him, but if so, you're best off attaching him to a squad of terminators with an Icon of Tzeentch or Nurgle, so they're more durable and he doesn't just eat a couple of lascannons or meltaguns and die before he gets a chance to assault anythng. Usually Wings is the best option for a lord, as it allows him to move like Jump Infantry but still ride in a rhino.

Overall the Lord is the least useful of the HQs, but usuable. Leaving aside lash princes, lash sorcerers are good, as are sorcerers with either wings or a bike, equipped with Warp Time and (optionally) mark of tzeentch and/or Wind of Chaos). Winged Princes with Mark of Khorne are cheap and killy, and winged princes with mark of nurgle or tzeentch, combined with warp time, are more expensive but very good. Not saying you have to take one of those, but if you get tired of the lord, those are good options to look at in the future.

The suicide melta terminator units are handy. Not 100% reliable (scatter can screw you), but a decent option for popping tanks. One thing I'd like to suggest is putting a powerfist or chain fist into each unit, to give them the ability to charge and destroy a vehicle in turns after landing. It also will discourage Dreadnoughts from charging laughing at the terminators who can't hurt them.

The plasma gun is usually a poor choice for chaos marines, as it prevents you from charging. They're usually best with meltaguns, though flamers can be nice too. Given how few units you have in a CSM army, it's usually best for them to have close combat upgrades too; an aspiring champion with power weapon or fist goes a long way.

Berserkers are great. Anywhere from 8-10 is usually a good number. Plasma pistols are terribly overpriced and do little good. Champion with power weapon or fist is much more useful. Possession, for my money, is a bit overpriced. You're better off spending those points on champions for the three squads.

I like your heavy support. Those are all solid units.

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Here's a possible variation on your list; I'm going to assume, for the moment, that you own a terminator lord and modeled him with a daemon weapon, so can't easily swap him to a winged lord in power armor or to lightning claws

Lord in termie armor w/daemon weapon: 145

3 terms w/3x combi-melta, 1x power fist: 115
3 terms w/3x combi-melta, 1x power fist: 115

10 Chaos Marines, 2 meltaguns, champ w/power weapon: 200
Rhino: 35
8 Khorne Berzerkers, champ w/fist: 208
Rhino: 35
10 Chaos Marines, 2 flamers, champ w/power weapon: 190
Rhino: 35

Vindicator, w/daemonic possession: 145
Vindicator: 125
Defiler: 150

1498

That should work a bit better while working with the models you have, and not asking you to remake your army into a standard internet build.

Be sure to deep strike your lord attached to one of the terminator units, to help him get across the table and keep him from getting his face shot off by lascannons when he lands. Use your Defiler to give cover to your Vindicators as they move up, firing.

Wow thanks for the extensive feedback Yes, you assumed correctly, I had bought a Termie Lord just today and I've been making an Abaddon-esque model, so I thought that the MoK would be adequate, but seriously, a 1/3 chance of the DW failing? I'll stick to a different Mark thanks. I think I'll go with your list idea, it seems much better than mine, with all the faults ironed out into one good army

Thanks, glad you like it!

Yeah, a daemon weapon causes you to lose your attacks and deal yourself a wound on a D6 roll of "1". And the Khorne weapon rolls two dice, so twice as many chances to roll a "1". Even when you don't, you're still only S4, so, say, with 10 attacks, you're looking at 6-7 hits, and only 3-4 dead enemy marines on an average round.

With the unmarked daemon weapon you probably average 7-8 attacks, and 4-5 hits, but 3-4 dead anyway, because of the S5. It's almost always a better deal.

I have to agree with Mannahnin. Something you may want to consider is not taking a Daemon Weapon at all. If you already modeled the Lord then forget it and go with the DW otherwise I have always like 2 LC w/ either MoS or MoK. I applaud you for not taking dual Lash Princes btw . I would suggest dropping the defiler and just going trip vindis but that is more a personal opinion because I can't stand how tall Defilers are and the amount of fire they draw turn 1/2. Then again if you are using him as a fire magnet...

Mannahnin wrote:Berserkers are great. Anywhere from 8-10 is usually a good number. Plasma pistols are terribly overpriced and do little good. Champion with power weapon or fist is much more useful.

Something to consider about the plasma pistol; With 5e's Pop-the-Transport and Eat-the-Contents rule, the KBs don't have a can-opener like CSM or PMs do (meltaguns). The plasma-pistol can fill this role. So, I would either do 2 PlasPs or none, having another part of the army bust open an enemy transport.

Not black and white good, but grayer: PW over PFist on the Skull Champ. Hitting on 3s and wounding on 3s at Init 5 is pretty good for less cost over the Pfist and its slow Init. PFist is always great, but since the SkullChamp goes first a lot of the time, with 3s and 3s ....

Brothererekose wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Berserkers are great. Anywhere from 8-10 is usually a good number. Plasma pistols are terribly overpriced and do little good. Champion with power weapon or fist is much more useful.

Something to consider about the plasma pistol; With 5e's Pop-the-Transport and Eat-the-Contents rule, the KBs don't have a can-opener like CSM or PMs do (meltaguns). The plasma-pistol can fill this role. So, I would either do 2 PlasPs or none, having another part of the army bust open an enemy transport.

Not black and white good, but grayer: PW over PFist on the Skull Champ. Hitting on 3s and wounding on 3s at Init 5 is pretty good for less cost over the Pfist and its slow Init. PFist is always great, but since the SkullChamp goes first a lot of the time, with 3s and 3s ....

I have to agree with most of this. While I still believe the PP is way too expensive they certainly do come in handy from time to time against Rhinos etc. As far as the fist goes it is really just personal preference on your part. When I ran Chaos I had two squads of 8 Berzerkers one with a Fist one with a Power Weapon. I didn't take any PP on the squads but that's probably because I had Oblits and regular CSM squads with double Melta supporting them.