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Does Jotww affect jump infantry?

Does it say it does?

Bearing in mind it has a very, very specific list of what it *does* affect, this is not a "poll" worthy question.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Does it say it does?

Bearing in mind it has a very, very specific list of what it *does* affect, this is not a "poll" worthy question.

My local games workshop (including employees) has a near unanimous decisions that it does affect jump infantry, because it lists "Infantry" and Jump Infantry has the word "infantry" in its name.

Its ****ing annoying as hell.

It DOES NOT. This has come up before, and the consensus was that it did not.

scubasteve04 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Does it say it does?

Bearing in mind it has a very, very specific list of what it *does* affect, this is not a "poll" worthy question.

My local games workshop (including employees) has a near unanimous decisions that it does affect jump infantry, because it lists "Infantry" and Jump Infantry has the word "infantry" in its name.

Its ****ing annoying as hell.

Jump Infantry is a distinct unit type. They're wrong, but you might struggle to convince them of that.

Corrode wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Does it say it does?

Bearing in mind it has a very, very specific list of what it *does* affect, this is not a "poll" worthy question.

My local games workshop (including employees) has a near unanimous decisions that it does affect jump infantry, because it lists "Infantry" and Jump Infantry has the word "infantry" in its name.

Its ****ing annoying as hell.

Jump Infantry is a distinct unit type. They're wrong, but you might struggle to convince them of that.

I sent an email to askyourquestion@games-workshop.com, when I get the answer back, im going to print that and keep it in my codex and hopefully that will end the issue.

Try it twice, and you may get two different answers.

Jump Infantry is an entirely separate class to Infantry.

These are the unit types:

Infantry
Jump Infantry
Bikes
Jetbikes
Beasts
Cavalry
Vehicles
Walkers
Monstrous Creatures

Force your opponents at that store then to use their jump infantry with the Infantry rules only then. If they are effected by Jaws because they are Infantry, then they are infantry.

BTW No it does not effect Jump infantry(although it does effect Jetbikes; but that is because they are a subcategory of bikes, not because they have "Bikes" in their name).

liam0404 wrote:These are the unit types:

Infantry
Jump Infantry
Bikes
Jetbikes
Beasts
Cavalry
Vehicles
Walkers
Monstrous Creatures

Actually you forgot Artillery, and Jetbikes are a subcategory of bikes (SW codex faq states this). The unit types are:

Infantry
Jump Infantry
Bikes and jetbikes
Beasts and Cavalry
Vehicles
Walkers
Monstrous Creatures
Artillery

JOWW does effect anything that the line goes though, expect for vehicles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Footsloggin wrote:It DOES NOT. This has come up before, and the consensus was that it did not.

Just because the word "jump" is in front of the name does not exculde from the rules of Infanty. They are still infanty, just with jumppack on them.

And Bikes are just infantry on a bike, etc etc - they are still different unit types.

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:JOWW does effect anything that the line goes though, expect for vehicles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Footsloggin wrote:It DOES NOT. This has come up before, and the consensus was that it did not.

Just because the word "jump" is in front of the name does not exculde from the rules of Infanty. They are still infanty, just with jumppack on them.

JOTWW does not effect everything except vehicles. It actually specifically states that it effects infantry, bikes, monsterous creatures, beast and cavalry are effected. I don't see jump infantry on this list.

That's poor rules interpenetration, saying just because jump infantry contain the word infantry, they are themselves infantry. That is like saying melta bombs are AP 1 just because they have the word "melta" in the name (hint: they don't).

Jump Infantry =/= Infantry. Not sure how people can use that argument without a ridiculous stretch of the rules. if we're doing that, then all of my infantry units are going to be using jump infantry rules, since both clearly have infantry in the name that must be legal right? >.>

vishra wrote:Jump Infantry =/= Infantry. Not sure how people can use that argument without a ridiculous stretch of the rules. if we're doing that, then all of my infantry units are going to be using jump infantry rules, since both clearly have infantry in the name that must be legal right? >.>

I would have to totally agree with you. The word Infanty is inculded with Jump Infanty.....if you go to any GT touranments or local tournament your arguement will be laugh at. It doesn't matter if it stated Cherry Infanty to Apple Infanty, the main thing here is the word Infanty, does "Jump Infanty" has the word Infanty in it....yes it does and clearly stated in the 40k rules and therfore can and always be affect by JOWW.

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:

vishra wrote:Jump Infantry =/= Infantry. Not sure how people can use that argument without a ridiculous stretch of the rules. if we're doing that, then all of my infantry units are going to be using jump infantry rules, since both clearly have infantry in the name that must be legal right? >.>

I would have to totally agree with you. The word Infanty is inculded with Jump Infanty.....if you go to any GT touranments or local tournament your arguement will be laugh at. It doesn't matter if it stated Cherry Infanty to Apple Infanty, the main thing here is the word Infanty, does "Jump Infanty" has the word Infanty in it....yes it does and clearly stated in the 40k rules and therfore can and always be affect by JOWW.

You are absolutely incorrect. They have defined unit types in the rulebook and infantry and jump infantry are two different types of unit types, so why are you assuming that when the rules list a bunch of specific unit types that the one that happens to *NOT* be specifically mentioned is somehow magically included?

If they wanted the rules to include all non-vehicle models then they could have said that, but they DID NOT. Why do you think they actually listed all the specific unit types that are affected if all they really wanted to do is have all non-vehicle models affected?

Jump Infantry are NOT infantry. They are jump infantry and jump infantry is the ONLY non-vehicle unit type specifically NOT mentioned that JoWW affects.

I don't know what GTs or local tournaments you've been playing at but I've NEVER seen a tournament judge rule that JoWW affects Jump Infantry.

Mrblacksunshine - so is a Heavy Bolter a bolter then? Can a storm bolter take special issue ammunition?

No.

Jump Infantry is NOT INFANTRY. I have never seen any tournament, including UK GT, EVER rule that thehy can be affected by JOTWW

Ever.

nosferatu

We all know the answer to that question, just by looking at the weapon on hand? Dumb just Dumb.

Yakface

What does JOWW states, it affects all Infantry....does is it not. Is Jump Infantry an Infantry type, with a label in front, it just a sub title like jetbike, it still a bike.

I'm afraid on page 4 and 5 of the BRB list the different Unit Types. Jump Infantry isn't even on the same page as Infantry. We can say Jetbike is a sub set of Bike, because on page 5 they are listed together as Bikes and Jetbikes. If Jump Infantry was the same as Infantry it would have listed them the same as Beasts and Cavalry and Bikes and Jetbikes, with the heading: Infantry and Jump Infantry. But it does not.

Then again on pages 51 through 55 Jump Infantry has it's own page, as a different Unit Type, all on it's on.

Infantry IS a completely different Unit Type from Jump Infantry, therefore, since JOTWW specifies exactly which Unit Types it affects, and Jump Infantry is not one of those, then it does not affect Jump Infantry.

I have seen this confused, a couple of times, since the FAQ clarified that Jetbikes are a sub set of Bikes. But that was just a clarification as Bikes and Jetbikes are the same Unit Types. There is nothing in the FAQ to assume that Jump Infantry is now a sub set of Infantry. Again, the rules for JOTWW specifies which Unit Types it affects, and Jump Infantry is not on the list.

Jump Infantry are not a subset of standard infantry. You seem to be confusing this Sunshine. The two are specific defined Types, sharing a single word.

If it pleases you, we can say Infantry and Jump Units. Is that better?

Consider this, a massive hole opens up in the ground, and, because you have a jump/jetpack, you simply hover above the hole.

*Consider this, a massive hole opens up in the ground, and, because you have a jump/jetpack, you simply hover above the hole. *

Funny thing and I know the rules include it, but you would think the same logic would apply to jetbikes?

I would, but then again, I think jet-bikes use anti-gravity... But i'm unsure, however, if i'm correct, then the hole would swallow them as well.

it does not affect jump infantry
Jump Infantry are not infantry
An Apple is not an ornage

End of thread.

MrBS - your argument is that Jump Infantry are Infantry, therefore Storm Bolters are Bolters and can take special issue ammunition.

Except they arent. Please NAME the tournaments, GT level, that you went to where they ruled that they were. Local level, FLGS level ones dont count.

Assault cannons are not assault, and heavy flamers aren't heavy.

Jump infantry are not infantry.

nosferatu1001 wrote:MrBS - your argument is that Jump Infantry are Infantry, therefore Storm Bolters are Bolters and can take special issue ammunition.

Except they arent. Please NAME the tournaments, GT level, that you went to where they ruled that they were. Local level, FLGS level ones dont count.

ask yourself this question, If there was a magical force in the 40k world states that "all Bolters" are effect by some magical power, would it affect all types of bolter in 40k? yes it would. If GW did not want JOTWW to affect infantry types they wouldn't have including their rules and called them Jump Infantry or inlcuded the word Infantry. Second the jump pack is just an additional equipment that grant them extra movements during the movement phrase and another during combat phrase. What are they at the end of the day.....still infantry with a rockect attach to their backs.

The Last GT event that i went was Bolter Beach 1

No jump infantry are a unit type, and the Jump Pack is a piece of wargear that changes a model from "Infantry" to "Jump infantry".

Also, interestingly enough; if some magical force in the 40k world states that "all Bolters" are effect by some magical power, Boltguns would not be effected.

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:

ask yourself this question, If there was a magical force in the 40k world states that "all Bolters" are effect by some magical power, would it affect all types of bolter in 40k? yes it would.

No, it wouldn't; unless your 40K world works outside the rules set forth in the BGB. According the rules as we have them, are rule affecting "all bolters" would not include heavy bolters, storm bolters, or bolt pistols. Each of those weapons are separate in every way. Their name does not signify anything. Think Lysander's "Bolter Drill" Special Rule. That rule specifically states each and every weapon that benefits from his rule. All of them include the word "bolter" in their name. GW purposely listed each weapon because they understand how their rules work.

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:ask yourself this question, If there was a magical force in the 40k world states that "all Bolters" are effect by some magical power, would it affect all types of bolter in 40k? yes it would. If GW did not want JOTWW to affect infantry types they wouldn't have including their rules and called them Jump Infantry or inlcuded the word Infantry. Second the jump pack is just an additional equipment that grant them extra movements during the movement phrase and another during combat phrase. What are they at the end of the day.....still infantry with a rockect attach to their backs.

The Last GT event that i went was Bolter Beach 1

You have no idea what your talking about. And have shown no rules to back up your side, other then your own opinion. Quite frankly Im beginning to smell a troll.

You have been proven wrong multiple times in this thread, maybe its time to admit your wrong.

I would think the closest approximation to this argument is Vulcan from C: SM. His chapter tactics list a certain grouping of weapons which he affects. Amongst the list is all flamers but it does not list inferno cannons (which are a type of flamer). Nobody that I know of allows Vulcan's tactics to affect inferno cannons simply because they are not on the list of specific weapons that he affects.
I think in this instance you are confusing the general term "Infantry" with the unit type "Infantry". Technically any soldier that is not mounted on some type of vehicle is infantry in the general sense of the term. However, you would not classify an artillery loader as infantry regarding his specific unit type. The same is true in 40K. Yes, jump infantry are infantry in the general sense of the word. But JotWW is using the specific unit type for listing who it can affect which is that specific type of unit called infantry under their listing. Anything that is not listed as "infantry" in their unit description is something else.