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HQ

Tervigon -crushing claws, adrenal glands, toxin sacs stinger salvo & catalyst
Tervigon -crushing claws, adrenal glands, toxin sacs stinger salvo & catalyst

Elite

2 x Hive Guard
2 x Hive Guard
2 x Hive Guard

Troops

Tervigon - crushing claws, adrenal glands, toxin sacs stinger salvo & catalyst
Tervigon - crushing claws, adrenal glands, toxin sacs stinger salvo & catalyst
10 x Termagants
10 x Termagants
8 x Genestealers - scything talons
8 x Genestealers - scything talons

Heavy Support

Trygon Prime -adrenal glands
Trygon - adrenal glands

Total: 1,996


Thinking of running this list instead of my previous one, only difference is winged Tyrant and Gargoyles have been replaced with Tervigons. List also has one extra synapse creature but two extra ways of getting feel no pain, plus a crap load of Termagants and another monstrous creature too!

Plan would be place Termagants in front, then Hive Guard then Tervigons - I'd have to hide some Tervigons behind others along wiht the Trygons. Genestealers outflank and tackle tanks or annoying units. Army moves forward as one spawning Termagants when required, if playing objective games a Tervigon will camp on a home objective and spawn Termagants when enemy units approach. Hive Guard blast open tanks and when close enough everything piles in and assault with super Termagants and extra attacks on the Tervigons thanks to the crushing claws; yes I know they cost a bit of points but getting average extra 2 attacks ain't bad sometimes, a Tervigon with 7 attacks on the charge is pretty cool

Tyrant before offered re-roll to hit thanks to old adversary and would be first line of attack with the Gargoyles, each unit would die in time pretty quickly. I'm hoping the Tervigons can last longer giving more benefits and the Termagants should be the same in combat, and would have the same assault range if spawed by a Tervigon..

Take the claws off of the tervigons, they're not designed to be in CC anyhow. the average +2 attacks per model just isn't worth the points IMO. With that savings you can put 2 more hive guard in your list and have 2 broods of 3. I'd rather have 4 s8 shooting attacks than a random number of s5 CC attacks, wouldn't you?

I think I would lose the Crushing Claws and use the points for more starting Termagants, or maybe Regeneration.

Any MC can die surprisingly quickly against IoM armies who are loaded with anti-tank weapons. While having four Tervies looks like good insurance, remember that when one of them dies within range of your Gants, the Gants take a bunch of damage.

You can try to screen a wounded one behind the others.

It might be good to lose a set of Hive Guard and replace them with Venomthropes for the rolling cover save.

Agreed, to a point - Venomthropes are a godsend in a MC list because you typically won't get cover saves anywhere else on a standard table (unless you have some nice cityfight terrain). For the cost, negating on average 1/3 of the anti-tank weapon shots from across the table is better i think than regenerating 1/6 of them, wouldn't you agree?

Also if you didn't need the extra hive guard, (though i still recommend running 2 broods of 3) i would revert to my old mantra from the endless swarm formation: "Bodies over Bullets". Swarmy guys typically do better vs a lot of MSU type armies, unless they're spamming ordnance blast weaponry like whirlwinds and medusas.

I'll make these changes:

HQ - Tervigon - Adrenal glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst. 195
HQ - Tervigon - Adrenal glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst. 195
EL - 3x Hive guards. 150
EL - 3x Hive guards. 150
EL - 2x Venomthropes. 110
TR - 11x Termagants. 55
TR - 11x Termagants. 55
TR - Tervigon - Adrenal glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst. 195
TR - Tervigon - Adrenal glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst. 195
TR - 10x basic Stealers. 140
TR - 10x basic Stealers. 140
HV - Trygon - Adrenal Glands. 210
HV - Trygon - Adrenal Glands. 210
Tot. 2000

You know that I don't like Crushing Claws on Tervigons and even in general.
I regroupped the Hive Guards to add a couple of Venomthropes that, again you know, I like the more and more..
I also growed up the 2 broods of Stealers, I don't consider interesting at all the Scyting Talons on them. Ok, they're cheap but honestly...

Just a problem. It's really a slow list.

I just dislike 2 Trygons, I'm usual to have almost all times 3 of them.

A list in-between ours 2 can be the following:

HQ - Tervigon - Adrenal glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst - Crushing Claws. 220
HQ - Tervigon - Adrenal glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst - Crushing Claws. 220
EL - 2x Hive guards. 100
EL - 2x Hive guards. 100
EL - 2x Hive guards. 100
TR - 10x Termagants. 50
TR - 10x Termagants. 50
TR - Tervigon - Adrenal glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst. 195
TR - Tervigon - Adrenal glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst. 195
TR - 10x basic Stealers. 140
HV - Trygon - Adrenal Glands. 210
HV - Trygon - Adrenal Glands. 210
HV - Trygon - Adrenal Glands. 210
Tot. 2000

2x Crushing Claws only on the HQ - Trevigons (the 2 that will run ahead vs the enemy), 1 more Trygon (I love..), 1 less unit of Stealers and 3 confortable units of 2 H.Guards each.

Just be sure to bring around 200 Termagants with you.

tetrisphreak wrote:Take the claws off of the tervigons, they're not designed to be in CC anyhow. the average +2 attacks per model just isn't worth the points IMO. With that savings you can put 2 more hive guard in your list and have 2 broods of 3. I'd rather have 4 s8 shooting attacks than a random number of s5 CC attacks, wouldn't you?

I know what you're saying but I tested them in one game and they got plenty of attacks, mostly 3, I know it's a gamble and expensive but with my Tervigons mooching forward and need to be wihtin 6" to make the Termagants work - which will see combat - which means the Tervigons will see combat, which is there weakness, but those claws can really help.

I doubt I'd take Venomthropes as just brought more Hive Guard, but I could merge units. The thing with Venomthropes while a 5+ cover is cool itself can be I.D'd and it's gone :(

Btw Hive Guard get 6 S8 shots in a unit of 3 and the Tervigon is S6 on the charge thanks to adrenal glands it has

Kilkrazy wrote:I think I would lose the Crushing Claws and use the points for more starting Termagants, or maybe Regeneration.

Any MC can die surprisingly quickly against IoM armies who are loaded with anti-tank weapons. While having four Tervies looks like good insurance, remember that when one of them dies within range of your Gants, the Gants take a bunch of damage.

You can try to screen a wounded one behind the others.

It might be good to lose a set of Hive Guard and replace them with Venomthropes for the rolling cover save.

See above for crushing claw reasoning I wouldn't take regen though.

Thanks for the tactic tip on a wounded Tervigon, I'll keep that in mind

As mentioned about Venomthropes above

tetrisphreak wrote:Agreed, to a point - Venomthropes are a godsend in a MC list because you typically won't get cover saves anywhere else on a standard table (unless you have some nice cityfight terrain). For the cost, negating on average 1/3 of the anti-tank weapon shots from across the table is better i think than regenerating 1/6 of them, wouldn't you agree?

Also if you didn't need the extra hive guard, (though i still recommend running 2 broods of 3) i would revert to my old mantra from the endless swarm formation: "Bodies over Bullets". Swarmy guys typically do better vs a lot of MSU type armies, unless they're spamming ordnance blast weaponry like whirlwinds and medusas.

I would personally take a Venomthrope over a regen, but neither really appeal - though see my RoB about city terrain

Toban wrote:You know that I don't like Crushing Claws on Tervigons and even in general.
I regroupped the Hive Guards to add a couple of Venomthropes that, again you know, I like the more and more..
I also growed up the 2 broods of Stealers, I don't consider interesting at all the Scyting Talons on them. Ok, they're cheap but honestly...

Just a problem. It's really a slow list.

I just dislike 2 Trygons, I'm usual to have almost all times 3 of them.

A list in-between ours 2 can be the following:

HQ - Tervigon - Adrenal glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst - Crushing Claws. 220
HQ - Tervigon - Adrenal glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst - Crushing Claws. 220
EL - 2x Hive guards. 100
EL - 2x Hive guards. 100
EL - 2x Hive guards. 100
TR - 10x Termagants. 50
TR - 10x Termagants. 50
TR - Tervigon - Adrenal glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst. 195
TR - Tervigon - Adrenal glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst. 195
TR - 10x basic Stealers. 140
HV - Trygon - Adrenal Glands. 210
HV - Trygon - Adrenal Glands. 210
HV - Trygon - Adrenal Glands. 210
Tot. 2000

2x Crushing Claws only on the HQ - Trevigons (the 2 that will run ahead vs the enemy), 1 more Trygon (I love..), 1 less unit of Stealers and 3 confortable units of 2 H.Guards each.

Just be sure to bring around 200 Termagants with you.

Indeed it's not mega fast, but the list is the same as before just inc Tyrant and Gargoyles and I found they would be the vanguard of the attack and would die pretty quickly. Plus, newly spawned Termagants can get a 18" assault range, nice hey

List wise I've been working out something which is pretty much like the example you did there. Only difference is I've added a third Trygon like you have, but dropped the second Tervigon HQ and took another 'Stealer unit. I guess if I dropped certain upgrades I could take that second Tervigon HQ.

Here's what I've come up with:

HQ

Tervigon - adrenal glands, toxin sacs stinger salvo & catalyst


Elite

2 x Hive Guard
2 x Hive Guard
2 x Hive Guard

Troops

Tervigon - adrenal glands, toxin sacs stinger salvo & catalyst
10 x Termagants
10 x Termagants
8 x Genestealers
8 x Genestealers

Heavy Support

Trygon - adrenal glands
Trygon - adrenal glands
Trygon - adrenal glands

Total: 1,839

Gives me spare points to play about with but not enough to get a second Tervigon as HQ. Could drop the 'Stealers down to 6 a squad maybe and could do it then, maybe. I just really want those claws and 8 'Stealers per squad min. I do think the 3rd Trygon will be required.

Mmm, eventually you'll can drop the 3 Adrenal Glands on Trygons and just one naked Stealer.

I'll agree to anyone will say that's a shame but in this case, with all these MC's CC attacks around, maybe we will be able to live without them.

so, 1839 - 30 - 14 + 195 = 1990

Ok here's what I've narrowed it down to:

Tyranids "Hive Fleet Kraken" - 2,000 points

HQ

Tervigon adrenal glands, toxin sacs stinger salvo & catalyst
Tervigon adrenal glands, toxin sacs stinger salvo & catalyst

Elite

2 x Hive Guard
2 x Hive Guard
2 x Hive Guard

Troops

Tervigon adrenal glands, toxin sacs stinger salvo & catalyst
Tervigon adrenal glands, toxin sacs stinger salvo & catalyst
10 x Termagants
10 x Termagants
6 x Genestealers scything talons
6 x Genestealers scything talons

Heavy Support

Trygon adrenal glands
Trygon adrenal glands
Trygon adrenal glands

Total: 2,002


HQ

Tervigon crushing claws, adrenal glands, toxin sacs stinger salvo & catalyst

Elite

2 x Hive Guard
2 x Hive Guard
2 x Hive Guard

Troops

Tervigon crushing claws, adrenal glands, toxin sacs stinger salvo & catalyst
Tervigon crushing claws, adrenal glands, toxin sacs stinger salvo & catalyst
10 x Termagants
10 x Termagants
9 x Genestealers
10 x Genestealers

Heavy Support

Trygon Prime adrenal glands
Trygon adrenal glands
Trygon adrenal glands

Total: 1,996

First list has got a extra monstrous creature which can put out more Termagants. It's got less Genestealers though do have combat upgrades.

Second list has one less monstrous creature but same synapse numbers, it loses feel no pain too. It gains more offensive output in combat and has more Genestealers.

Personally I like the second one. I really want those Tervigons to battle it out in combat because they will end up in combat one way or another. That extra monstrous creature will add another target, but I don't really need more Termagants, and TBH 6 monstrous creatures is enough and the Genestealers are a larger number, shame I cannot get 10 in both squads :( - maybe lose crushing claws from 2 and get more 'Stealers? I think the second while has a single unit less it has more damage output.

I'll honestly drop one Crushing Claws on one TR Tervigon.

The TR Tervi with claws will camp on the obj, the other one will follow the HQ Tervi in the midfield.

2/3 are enough for me. Even too much honestly ;D

I'm gonna try the second list over the weekend and report in.

wait wait wait.

Check this list:

HQ - Tervigon - Adrenal Glands - Toxin Sacs - Stinger Salvo - Catalyst - Onslaught - Crushing Claws. 235
EL - 2x Hive Guards. 100
EL - 2x Hive Guards. 100
EL - 2x Hive Guards. 100
TR - Tervigon - Adrenal Glands - Toxin Sacs - Stinger Salvo - Catalyst - Onslaught - Crushing Claws. 235
TR - Tervigon - Adrenal Glands - Toxin Sacs - Stinger Salvo - Catalyst - Crushing Claws. 220
TR - 10x Termagants. 50
TR - 10x Termagants. 50
TR - 10x Stealers. 140
TR - 10x Stealers. 140
HV - Trygon - Adrenal Glands. 210
HV - Trygon - Adrenal Glands. 210
HV - Trygon - Adrenal Glands. 210
Tot. 2000

If you don't like Onslaught just buy 2 others Stealers for a new 1998 total.

Hmmm interesting. Onslaught has always appealed to me but I've never been sure about it, I'm sure I can find use. I'll try that over the weekend and link you up with a bat rep

At least this way you have all your units at the top, or at the quantity/options you were searching for.
It look as a really balanced list.
I'm still uncertain on the HQ Tervigon but we'll see.

Waiting you br remember that a 6 is alwais a good result and that every molecule will be useful anyway ;D

Yeah it has. I know yourself and others don't like crushing claws but they did well for me in the one game I tried them. I still need to test them some more and if a Tervigon is getting 7 attacks on the charge thanks to the claws that's pretty evil and with my tactics of moving forward the Tervigons will see combat and I'd rather it be on my terms instead.

Onslaught will come in use the first turn at least making Hive Guard run and shoot, come come in useful for the Trygons too with the bio-electric, never know could immobilise a vehicle making it easier to wreck.

How come you're uncertain about the Tervigon HQ choice?

I'm thinking this now which will save me losing the tyrant, won't be tervigon spam but thats ok as I honestly think two tervigons are enough anyway, I think I was just disheartened with the tyrant.

Hive tyrant - 2 x twin-linked devourers, old adversary & armoured shell

Tyrant guard - lash whip

2 x hive guard

2 x hive guard

2 x hive guard

Tervigon - crushing claws, adrenal glands, toxin sacs & catalyst

Tervigon - crushing claws, adrenal glands, toxin sacs & catalyst

10 x termagants

10 x termagants

7 x genestealers

7 x genestealers

Trygon - adrenal glands

Trygon - adrenal glands

Trygon - adrenal glands

Looks good. Just a little shame, the only two 7x stealers units.

I'll try this list next friday vs Abadon+Chaos Termies spam

I'm thinking old adversary doesn't work so well. In first test game used it once for the Termagants and that's it and once for the Tyrant itself. Second game used it once and that was it. I think I might drop it and increase the 'Stealers numbers, list is 6 points under so ditching old adversary will get me another 2 'Stealers taking it back up to 8 per squad.

I've used Regeneration for the lulz.

If you get lucky it's brilliant, otherwise there is the risk the enemy blowing away your MC in a single round and negating it.

I have a feeling, which I can't support with mathematics, that Regeneration is more worthwhile when you have more MCs in your list, as they can run interference for each other.

TBH I've never used regen or think it's worth it. Another Nid player I play with did take it and I think it worked about two times for him lol. It's worth taking on the Tyranid Prime just because it's cheap.

I used it on both my Tervigon and my Trygon Prime at Platinum Snow Devil last Dec.

My calculation was that a Trygon Prime with Adrenal Glands is 250 points, so Regeneration adds 10% cost but should in theory save 16% of his points.

I got pretty lucky with my Tervigon, not so lucky with my Trygon.

I did it more for fun than proven utility.

Was that the tournament in Cambridge or some where?

Canterbury.

Ketara organised it -- great fun. We got snowed in.

2 nice games Mercer and I think a good afternoon too.

So do you feel everything good with just 2 Tervigons?
Does it worth take a third instead the Tyrant?

In fact, if we should take the Tyrant just for the Paroxism+Leech ess. combo that can be stopped by hoods, maybe we should think to another one solution.

I particulary liked the first br, the one vs the guard. Of course you had very nice rolls at the right flank in the begin and your stealers loved the right side too.

Your guards works really good too.

The only thing I must underline is that you play with a lot of scenery in comparison with our local habit. I would really like to play in similar situations vs my SW/BA/IG friends.

In fact now I completely understand why you don't like/need venomthropes

I will give a try to a similar 1850 points list next friday, vs a theorically hard Abaddon+C.Terminators list.

We'll see and I'll take my br.

Yeah two Tervigons are fine, I don't think a third is going to add a lot really just a extra FnP.

The Tyrant stopped by Hoods is a problem, but it can have other abilities i.e old adversary but the Tyrant is still expensive.

Outflanking worked well in both reports TBH, I cannot grumble. The Guard also did very well for once too

The scenery is actually 1/4 of the board as G.W suggests it's just everyone plays with too little!

Let me know how you get on mate

I think I'll try something like this:

HQ - Tiranid Prime - sword and whip - deathspitter. 100
EL - 2x Hive Guards. 100
EL - 2x Hive Guards. 100
EL - 2x Hive Guards. 100
TR - 10x Termagants. 50
TR - 10x Termagants. 50
TR - Tervigon - Adrenal Glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst - Stinger Salvo - Crushing Claws. 220
TR - Tervigon - Adrenal Glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst - Stinger Salvo - Crushing Claws. 220
TR - 10x Genestealers. 140
TR - 10x Genestealers. 140
HV - Trygon - Adrenal Glands. 210
HV - Trygon - Adrenal Glands. 210
HV - Trygon - Adrenal glands. 210
1850

Also a good list considering the 2000 points expansion, with just 3 more Hive Guards.

Get rid of the claws and if i was you exchange at least 1 of the hive gaurd broods for zoanthropes/the doom of Malintai because lets be fair they are lethal

In fact I agree.

The problem is that we need an HQ unit, isn't it?

So, maybe:

TR - Tervigon - Adrenal Glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst - Stinger Salvo. 195
EL - 2x Hive Guards. 100
EL - 2x Hive Guards. 100
EL - 2x Hive Guards. 100
TR - 11x Termagants. 55
TR - 11x Termagants. 55
TR - Tervigon - Adrenal Glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst - Stinger Salvo. 195
TR - Tervigon - Adrenal Glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst - Stinger Salvo. 195
TR - 8x Genestealers. 112
TR - 8x Genestealers. 112
HV - Trygon - Adrenal Glands. 210
HV - Trygon - Adrenal Glands. 210
HV - Trygon - Adrenal glands. 210
1849

Davvvid16 wrote:Get rid of the claws and if i was you exchange at least 1 of the hive gaurd broods for zoanthropes/the doom of Malintai because lets be fair they are lethal

See above for my responses about the claws. Tried Zoanthropes already, Hive Guard are better. Doom = meh.

Toban wrote:In fact I agree.

The problem is that we need an HQ unit, isn't it?

So, maybe:

TR - Tervigon - Adrenal Glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst - Stinger Salvo. 195
EL - 2x Hive Guards. 100
EL - 2x Hive Guards. 100
EL - 2x Hive Guards. 100
TR - 11x Termagants. 55
TR - 11x Termagants. 55
TR - Tervigon - Adrenal Glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst - Stinger Salvo. 195
TR - Tervigon - Adrenal Glands - Toxin Sacs - Catalyst - Stinger Salvo. 195
TR - 8x Genestealers. 112
TR - 8x Genestealers. 112
HV - Trygon - Adrenal Glands. 210
HV - Trygon - Adrenal Glands. 210
HV - Trygon - Adrenal glands. 210
1849

Agree with? And Tervigon as HQ? In my list I'm keeping the Tyrant as a HQ choice, works well with Tyrant Guard and Termagant shield.

"I agree" about the Claws as you allready know.

Tyrant yes / Tyrant no is really a good question.

In this specifics case, the game I'll play next friday, I was thinking to a third Tervigon to build up a flesh wall in front of Abaddon+Terminators sq.

Apparently my adversary will bring the HQ + 10 Snaanesh Terminators, 6 Obliterators, 2 Nurgle's troops and 1 Slaanesh DP.

I don't think a Tyrant will ad something extraordinary to this list, again and only for this particular case.
It will be, eventually, interesting just for Paroxism on the Termies.

----------------------------

Considering more in general this list as an ALL COMERS pattern the Tyrant sounds a bit better but, in fact just for the Old Adversary + Paroxism combo. But we must say that The Tyrant itself in a reasonable setup + the relative Guard (1x) means 330 points.
At 2000 points that cqn be managed but at 1850 it's really hard to balance the list.

Aye. Let me know how you get on with the claws. Personally I rate them roughly getting 7 attacks extra over a game.

Yeah it is like that with the Tyrant. For a few points more you can get a Tervigon with toxin sacs and adrenal glands along with catalyst which will spawn Termagants, make them stronger and give feel no pain - all good. The Tyrant adds paroxysm and old adversary, though it really should be picking on units it will have no problem beating in combat and not acting as a power house. Though paroxysm would be handy against Abaddon or even those Terminators - mass charge with Termagants.