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I have a 2000 point league coming up so I am posting a couple of list to see what people think. Here is a Kan Wall I have that has only seen wins

HQ
Big Mek with KFF 85
Grotsnik 160

Elites
5xLootas 75
5xLootas 75
7xKommandos with 2xBurnas and Snikrot 185 (8 models total)

Troops
25xShoota Boys Nob, PK, BP, 2Big Shoota 200
20xShoota Boys Nob, PK, BP, 2Big Shoota 170
20xShoota Boys Nob, PK, BP, 2Big Shoota 170
10xGrots with Runtherd 40
1xDeffdread with DCCW, Scorcha, Armor Plates, Grot riggers 110

Fast Attack
Deffkopta with Buzzsaw and Rokkits 70
3xWarbuggies with Rokkits 105
3xWarbuggies with Rokkits 105

Heavy Support
3xKilla Kans with Rokkits 150
3xKilla Kans with Rokkits 150
3xKilla Kans with Rokkits 150

Now everything in this list is fairly sensible and straight forward except for Grotsnik and the Deffdread.

The Deffdread is there to add to the No of vehicles and also to help out against things that can assault the Killer Kans (their WS is a big weakness). I also couldn't think of a more effective way to use the points

Grotsnik is my wild card. If my opponent is strong at range and hugs the table edges he joins the Kommandoes and really ups the strike force of tha unit. Otherwise he joins one of the Shoota squads giving them the nice FNP (and the not so nice move towards the closest enemy, but this has never been an issue with the wall so far). In DOW deployment I can often afford to attach him to a squad and deploy them on the 24' mark for turn 1 shooting and turn 2 assault

Ghazghkull may also work, instead of Grotsnik and the Deffdread however his Waaagh bonus is often wasted, as I am usually quite comfortable shooting and Grotsnik should be able to yield similar results in melee to Ghaz..
What do you think?

Looks pretty good!

I like running grotsnik with a BIG mob of ARD boyz with shootas, just keep some guys in terrain so his special rule is limited by difficult terrain rolls. It works VERY well!!

Not enough Boyz on foot for my liking, only 20 Boyz per mob which can be shot down even with 5+ cover save.

Hmm 2x20 1x25? 4+ cover from the Kans. Then there is the 8 kommados and 1 squad will have FNP as well...
I haven't ever run out of boys (about 10 games vs SW, BA, IG) but what do you suggest? Obvious candidate to go is the Deffdread which gives me 18 more boys or max kommandos and 6 boys?

Not in 2,000 points when you can get 120 Ork models inc walkers and Deffkopters. I don't think you will run out of Boyz but I can seem them being lot smaller units.

Personally I'd do something like this:

Orks "Kan Wall" - 2,000 points

HQ

Big Mek - kustom force field


Big Mek - kustom force field

Elite

5 x Lootas

5 x Lootas

5 x Lootas

Troops

30 x Shoota Orks - 3 x rokkits - Nob w/ power klaw & bosspole

30 x Shoota Orks - 3 x rokkits - Nob w/ power klaw & bosspole

30 x Shoota Orks - 3 x rokkits - Nob w/ power klaw & bosspole

15 x Gretchin - Runtherd w/ grot pod

Deff Dread - skorcha, dreadnought close combat weapon & grot riggers

Deff Dread - skorcha, dreadnought close combat weapon & grot riggers

Fast Attack

Deffkopter - twin-linked rokkit & buzzsaw

Deffkopter - twin-linked rokkit & buzzsaw

Heavy Support

3 x Killa Kanz - 3 x rokkits

3 x Killa Kanz - 3 x rokkits

3 x Killa Kanz - 3 x rokkits


Total: 1,995

Bring your boys to 30 man squads.

When snikrots krew is 15 strong, they can take down 3 oblits. How does it work at half strength?

I do like Mercers list but as you know it is very different and you change quite a bit. If you want to keep the foundation of you list the biggest thing I feel is making those boys units 30 strong. Dropping the dred would cover most of this. maybe not 30 strong but as many as you can get for that dred which will not last as long as 18 or 20 boys.

In a big list it is helpful to have two KFF's, one has trouble covering everything.

I play a couple of buggies in my list, mostly because I've been too lazy to cobble up a third buzzkopta, but I'm not sure they really fit well with the Wall.

You do see to be pretty short on boyz for a 2,000-point list.

Mercer's list is much like mine, except I don't play Dreds, but then I usually play 1850.

Recently, I ran an IA8-based Kan Wall, that was big fun! 15 walkers makes for good times. I've since gotten three more Kans, next time it'll be 18 walkers!

For the Killa Kans, they only will get the cover save if 2 of them are within 6" of the Big Mek...I think. At least that is the INAT ruling. I would take 2 in a Kan Wall list for this reason as 1 is not enough to cover 3 groups in this case. Find out whatthe ruling is where you are though.

The rule is if the unit is within 6" it gets a cover save, doesn't say majority or that would apply to infantry too.

Thanks for the input everyone, much appreciated!
Some of the stuff in the list I won't go without such as the Kommandoes (backtablehugging Manticores out of LOS etc) and the Warbuggies which I get so much out of. They actually tend to be star performers (though I try to play this down), blocking troops in Landraiders, bashing side armor on heavies and contesting points..
I'll try to find a way to incorporate more boys, possibly switching Grotsnik for a regular warboss with a Claw. That should give me at least 10 more boys..

Always interested if anyone has any more ideas

untis within 6" get a 5+ cover save. So If one killa kan is within 6", then your squad gets a 5+ cover save. The wording for vehicles is that the vehicle is obscured if it is within 6", not the unit of vehicles. In order for the unit of vehicles to count as obscured (and get the 4+ save), 2 out of the 3 vehicles need to be obscured.

Again, this is something you wil need to ask about where you play, as it is one of the more esoteric ruling that not all players agree on.

Doesn't say that. The rule says counts as obscured which is smoke etc, not 50% to get a cover save those are two different rules on how a vehicle gets cover.

mercer wrote:Doesn't say that. The rule says counts as obscured which is smoke etc, not 50% to get a cover save those are two different rules on how a vehicle gets cover.

"A kustom force field gives alll units within 6 inches of the Mek a cover save of 5+. Vehicles within 6 " are treated as being obscured targets."

From the ork codex. What exactly does it not say? The first rule does not apply to vehicles. It says nothing about granting them cover or obscuring them. It should be discounted when discussing KFF and Killer Kans. The second rule does not say anything about a unit of vehicles. You can either assume half the unit has to be obscured for them to have a KFF save, that would be in line with BRB and cover saves. Or you can play it as each individual model has to be within 6' to get the save.

What would your argument be for playing it your way?

Again, I will freely admit that this ruling has gone both ways. I see the RAW as you need two Killa Kans within 6" to get the 4+ cover save.

BUT

It all depends on where you play and what they decide. If it is an tournament, ask the TO. If it is a regular gaming group, then you need to come to a decision.

Taoofss wrote:

mercer wrote:Doesn't say that. The rule says counts as obscured which is smoke etc, not 50% to get a cover save those are two different rules on how a vehicle gets cover.

"A kustom force field gives alll units within 6 inches of the Mek a cover save of 5+. Vehicles within 6 " are treated as being obscured targets."

From the ork codex. What exactly does it not say? The first rule does not apply to vehicles. It says nothing about granting them cover or obscuring them. It should be discounted when discussing KFF and Killer Kans. The second rule does not say anything about a unit of vehicles. You can either assume half the unit has to be obscured for them to have a KFF save, that would be in line with BRB and cover saves. Or you can play it as each individual model has to be within 6' to get the save.

What would your argument be for playing it your way?

What? Do you fail at reading? The rule says that vehicles are treated as obscured targets why would you say it says nothing for? It's not two seperate rules it's a whole rule with two sentences.

The way it reads is vehicles are treated as obscured, using the first part of the rule it would be units or vehicles within 6" gain a cover save - be like saying one Ork out of 30 can get a cover save for the unit yet a Kan unit needs two to be in range, that's not how the rule works having different rules for different units. It says ALL units within 6" gain a cover save, vehicles are treated as obscured - and we all know what obscured is. If Kanz need to have 50% of the unit within in range then so will the Ork infantry unit too.

The way we play it is exactly how it reads, ALL units within 6" gain a cover save vehicles count as obscured. Key words are all units and count as obscured, not are obscured and full filling the requirements but count as.

Gentlemen... You are hijacking the thread.
So far everywhere I have played it or had it ruled was that 1 KK being withing 6" was enough so that how I treat it in my list. League has the same rules.

For further discussion on the topic please take it to YMDC though I believe there is already a threads or 2 on this

Same way I play it and probably more than 2 threads on it - sorry about the hijack!

This would probably be better, but it looses the Grotsnik flavour
HQ
Big Mek with KFF 85
Ghazghkull 225

Elites
5xLootas 75
5xLootas 75
7xKommandos with 2xBurnas and Snikrot 185 (8 models total)

Troops
25xShoota Boys Nob, PK, 2Big Shoota 200
25xShoota Boys Nob, PK, 2Big Shoota 170
25xShoota Boys Nob, PK, 2Big Shoota 170
10xGrots with Runtherd 40

Fast Attack
Deffkopta with Buzzsaw and Rokkits 70
3xWarbuggies with Rokkits 105
3xWarbuggies with Rokkits 105

Heavy Support
3xKilla Kans with Rokkits 150
3xKilla Kans with Rokkits 150
3xKilla Kans with Rokkits 150

Ghazghkull comes in at the back probably with Snikrot