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I'm in love with the stormraven, particularly its ability to transport both troops and a dread. Right now I'm trying to hash out a list that includes 2 stormravens, 2 baal predators, 2 dreads, and enough infantry to fill the ravens.

So, like the title says, what is the best choice for scoring units in the 2 ravens, specifically in the context of this speedy BA list? Right now the options look like this:

1) 10 Tactical marines
2) 6 assault marines
3) 10 assault marines with jump packs removed
4) 10 scouts

I'm leaning slightly toward the assault marines minus the jump packs, but i'm not sure if 4 extra marines is worth removing the prime advantage of the unit.

Jim

You don't pay 200 points for a flying assault ramp to hide a scoring unit inside it.

IF the stormraven survives until turn 3 you could then move an assault squad that took heavy casualties towards or into the storm raven, but that's a huge IF.

The raven is av12 and capible of loading up with a larger cargo of whoopass than a landraider. The main question people should be asking is what's plan b for the cargo if the raven gets smoked on turn 1.

Well you also lose out of the Discounted Transport with the non jump assault marines unless you are planning to run an empty razorback or something like that.
Also Sanguinary guard could be an option if you happen to be running Dante.
Unfortunately I run Death Company in mine as after I thought about it I decided that a Raven was a big enough fire magnet as it was. I didn't want a scoring cargo to be more incentive to put it down.

Cheers,
~Volkan

I agree with the above. SRs are not meant for Scoring units. SRs are meant to deliver whoopass ASAP, and will often die doing it. In doing their job, they should be forcing your opponent to divert fire AWAY from your scoring units. Give him hard choices, not easy ones. Terminators, Death Company, Honor Guard, anything killy which wants to be right in the enemy's face is a good candidate to go in a SR.

Also, if you're not going first, don't deploy them on the table, unless there's some ungodly huge piece of LOS-blocking terrain you can actually hide them behind. Reserve them instead. If your opponent moves toward your units which ARE on the table, he's got to worry about you flying onto the board, immediately disembarking and assaulting his stuff. If he hangs back, he lets you keep control of your half of the table, and your SRs can move 24" the turn they arrive, so they get at least halfway across the table and they have a cover save when your opponent finally gets a chance to shoot at them. And if he's got too many guns, you can zip up a flank or something to reduce the number which can get range and LOS on them.

ok... So If I'm going to take ravens I should put something big and unpleasant in them. I'm thinking maybe terminators or sternguard vets. Something nasty to jump out and assault the enemy.

A guy at my FLGS uses two ravens. In one he puts five termies, librarian (I think), and a blood talon furioso. In the other he puts a furiouso. Turn 2 they are usually assaulting something.

I run DC and Chappy in mine, going to get lemartes and refigure out my HQ soon.

A Stormraven will attract a lot of fire, as already said.
Therefore, its probably wise to mount a non-scoring unit in it and give scoring units mediocre transports that will hardly attract fire.

wuestenfux wrote:A Stormraven will attract a lot of fire, as already said.

I have publicly stated, for the record, to the BA players of my regular group that: 1) It is and will forever after be called a "Chibihawk", 2) it WILL die.
As an IG player I have enough Ordinance pie and Lascannons to turn the stubby little thing to scrap many times over.

A-P wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:A Stormraven will attract a lot of fire, as already said.

I have publicly stated, for the record, to the BA players of my regular group that: 1) It is and will forever after be called a "Chibihawk", 2) it WILL die.
As an IG player I have enough Ordinance pie and Lascannons to turn the stubby little thing to scrap many times over.

A single fast AV 12 skimmer will not last very long, no matter what.
Ask a mech Eldar player - Serpents eventually go down early in the game, but target saturation helps here.

If you want to camp an objective, a 20 point rhino with an assault squad is what you want. If you want to have 200+ points of vehicle sitting there, use a land raider- it has a bit more toughness and doesnt sit 4 inches in the air at all times.
As most of the other posters have mentioned, you use a raven to drop a bomb of a unit in the enemies face (and then watch it more than likely get shot down in a fiery wreckage)

ok... So what I'm hearing is that the raven will, almost without fail, be dead around turn 3. That being said, do weapon upgrades make sense for the raven? Hurricane bolters are certainly nice, but if this think is going to die quickly should I go with a bare-bones version and use the saved points elsewhere? Perhaps on something that is not going to draw all the anit-vehicle fire my enemy has at his disposal...

jim

The only upgrade which costs points (the MM swap is nice) I'd consider would be Extra Armor. It's a 7.5% cost upgrade to make a transport which is likely hauling two important units better at delivering its payload.

JimLofa wrote:ok... So what I'm hearing is that the raven will, almost without fail, be dead around turn 3. That being said, do weapon upgrades make sense for the raven? Hurricane bolters are certainly nice, but if this think is going to die quickly should I go with a bare-bones version and use the saved points elsewhere? Perhaps on something that is not going to draw all the anit-vehicle fire my enemy has at his disposal...

jim

It's complicated. The survivablity of a raven from turn to turn is more of an integral curve than a straight line.

If the raven still has cargo the other side is going to throw everything and the kitchen sink at it.

If the raven unloaded it's cargo the other side is likely to be far more preoccupied with the cargo than the raven, but some opponents will be motivated to slag the raven before it unloads it's 4 missiles.

If the raven unloaded it's cargo and missiles it's probably home free. The other side will probably be far more occupied with landing shots against more fragile AV11 razorbacks or getting a side AV11 shot on predators or vindicators, unless the cargo of the raven is still alive and kicking their teeth in. Then they really won't be worried about the raven.

Agreed. Once the payload is delivered, the Storm Raven stops being nearly as high-priority a target. And its immunity to the Melta rule makes it less convenient to kill once its in close than most vehicles.

The rest of your army also plays a large role in Raven's survivability. If it's the only thing you've got (other than a Dreadnought that may be inside it) with an armor value in your list, then logically, you can assume the enemy is going to turn all his anti-tank weapons against just that target. Not good odds considering how much anti-armor you see packed into lists these days. I've go a pair of Land Speeders in my list, which drop in, Multi-Melta something nasty, and then draw a little of that fire.

Assault Terminators in a Storm Raven - an even quicker way to beat face. Especially if there is a Death Co dread with dual talons on the back. Hammernators + extra attacks = win.

Extra Armour is not nice... it is mandatory and should have been included in the cost... although with POTMS cant it still move straight forward if shaken?

The Storm Raven is a Blood Talon Dreadnought delivery system primarily.

A melta armed assault squad with a powerfist complements the dreadnought nicely as the Storm Raven's payload. The assault squad can help demech the opponent and are scoring. Assault squads can buy a cheap dedicated transport and have more vehicles running around so the storm raven isn't such a huge target and you can deploy the assault squad in the razorback if you are going second and have to reserve your Storm Raven.

Storm Ravens require extra armor as you want to get your assaulty payload into the assault phase and unlike land raiders storm ravens are more likely to take a hit before they get there.

Power of the Machine Spirit only allows you to fire one weapon if shaken or stunned it does not allow you to move you still need to buy extra armor.

Thanks for all the input guys.

I was kicking this idea around in my head... What about a smaller unit (5-8 models lets say) of vanguard vets, or perhaps even honor guard? Too few models? Too vulnerably? Too expensive? That is what I was thinking at first, but either choice has a ton of equipment options and the power is near to a unit of death company without the fear of my opponent leading them on a "move toward the nearest visible enemy" goose chase.

Would either of those units be able to stand up in close combat/would it be worth the points to make them an effective assault unit?

Jim