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Ok, so I have been playing with a kan wall list and LOVE it. The problem I am running in to is that my opponents are coming close to getting tactical draws on KP's despite having 200 points left on the table to my 800.

So here is my list that is a response to that.

KAN WALL KP ABUSE LIST
------------------------------------------

Big Mek w/ KFF - 85
Big Mek w/ KFF - 85

10 Lootas - 150

3 Kans w/ Rokkits - 150
3 Kans w/ Rokkits - 150
3 Kans w/ Rokkits - 150

30 'Ard Slugga Boyz w/ Nob, PK, Bosspole - 340
30 Shoota Boyz w/ Nob, PK, Bosspole - 220
30 Shoota Boyz w/ Nob, PK, Bosspole - 220
30 Shoota Boyz w/ Nob, PK, Bosspole - 220
30 Shoota Boyz w/ Nob, PK, Bosspole - 220

That's it.

I have taken a mob of 30 slugga boyz only because i have 15 of them painted already and am not about to go ripping their arms off and painting them with shootas.

11 Killpoints in this list. 150 Boyz, 9 walkers, and all with cover saves from KFF's.

My Kans have always made it to the end of the game, or most of them. I need the Big Meks for the KFF's. 10 Lootas will give me transport popping power and when in area cover or in ruins the 4+ cover save works wonders....
And then 150 Boyz. It is damn hard to take out ONE full squad of boyz. Now try getting rolled over with FIVE. Even pie plate heavy lists would have a problem with this many, I would think, and there are plenty of DCCW and Hidden Power Claw attacks in this list to take down any vehicles that survive the 9 rokkits.

Comment and critique please! Keep in mind this is supposed to be a cheese list made to abuse KP's as much as a horde list can!

The Power klaw in a shooty mob of orks doesnt really make sense to me. The orks are going to be shooting which makes the power klaw useless, unless youre running the orks toward the enemy, but then the shootas are useless. Maybe replace the power klaw with big shootas or rokkits? Or just make half of the mobz slugga choppa boyz and the other half of the mobz shoota boyz with some heavy weapons.

Dont really like the ard boyz upgrade. Only really good in cc and by the time you get there your shootas would have wittle down most of the threat. I'd say drop that and either get more lootas or get some big shootas for more firepower. While the rokkits at bs3 are quite good, I like having a unit of grot zookas for densely packed MEQs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

blasto0341 wrote:The Power klaw in a shooty mob of orks doesnt really make sense to me. The orks are going to be shooting which makes the power klaw useless, unless youre running the orks toward the enemy, but then the shootas are useless. Maybe replace the power klaw with big shootas or rokkits? Or just make half of the mobz slugga choppa boyz and the other half of the mobz shoota boyz with some heavy weapons.

Shootas are assault weapons. Why wouldn't they be assaulting? The shootas are there to soften up enemies before the inevitable assault. The amount of bullets flying is pretty staggering actually and the klaw is the icing on the cake.

PK Nob works just fine in a mob of shootas. The shoota boys still move up with the intention of engaging the enemy in CC, they just are able to get some shots in along the way. They pack assault weapons so they shoot before the assault effectively getting off some attacks before they normally would with their lousy initiative. This makes up for the lost CC attack by not having a pistol and ccw.

Edit: I agree with the above poster about dropping the 'Ard boys for regular boys. With the points you save you could take 8 lootas and have 2 squads of 9. You're only adding 1 extra KP but greatly increasing your transport shooting capability.

blasto0341 wrote:The Power klaw in a shooty mob of orks doesnt really make sense to me. The orks are going to be shooting which makes the power klaw useless, unless youre running the orks toward the enemy, but then the shootas are useless. Maybe replace the power klaw with big shootas or rokkits? Or just make half of the mobz slugga choppa boyz and the other half of the mobz shoota boyz with some heavy weapons.

Very confused at your statement here. Shootas are Assault weapons. They are short range to boot. Point for point shoota boyz are one of the best things in the codex and they are not a huge amount weaker than slugga boyz in cc. These guys are made for CC and not standing and shooting. Ork shooting is not for standing back and shooting all day but rather a precursor to the crumpin' that happens when da boyz get close enough to drag the enemy down in the green tide. PK nob with a BP is pretty standard fare in a shoota mob.

augustus5 wrote:PK Nob works just fine in a mob of shootas. The shoota boys still move up with the intention of engaging the enemy in CC, they just are able to get some shots in along the way. They pack assault weapons so they shoot before the assault effectively getting off some attacks before they normally would with their lousy initiative. This makes up for the lost CC attack by not having a pistol and ccw.

I'll go one step further, PK's can and will save your entire unit often enough to mandate them. A single walker that ties up your boyz otherwise just eats them till they run off the board. A single PK will chew at dreads well enough to discourage dreads from entering CC. 3 Killa Kans are only barely a match for a single well equipped SM Dread, and you really don't want to have to pull off a third of your walkers to address a single drop-podded dread.

No shootas are the bolter style wep for orks, sluggas are the cc ones with a choppa to gain +1 attack.

I got the 'ard boyz upgrade simply to further enhance the survivability of that unit, making that KP even HARDER to get. I'll see how it works when i try it out.

blasto, shoota boyz are better than CC boyz IMO. Did a little research and read a few guides that analyzed the gearing of all the ork units and the versatility of shoota boyz really makes them shine. Just my 2 cents. The PK is because even though the mobs have shootas, they are still aiming to get in CC. 3 attacks on the charge each is still massive.

Yeah, but 4 on a charge is even better considering orks BS of 2. I think the initial wave of ork attacks with slugga CC wep = 120 attacks at str 4 int 4 is stronger compared to 90 attacks with a shoota. Shoota orks running in get to shoot yes but shootas have 6 more inches of range than the slugga. That to me isnt worth giving up the extra attack in CC, now dont get me wrong sluggas have 12 inch range so you can shoot before you charge.

Blasto: I see where you're coming from since I too prefer Sluggas over Shootas, but look at it this way: They both do the same amount of attacks in one turn (Shootas: 2 for shooting, 3 for assaulting = 5 attacks total. Sluggas: 1 for shooting, 4 for assaulting = 5 attacks total). People mainly take Shootas because as Kenshin has previously mentioned, Shootas are assault weapons and meant to widdle down a unit before the inevitable assault. What more do you expect for 6 points per model?

There's nothing stopping you from running both Shootas and Sluggas, which is what I do (2:1 Slugga to Shoota to be exact).

It's also too fun to roll so many dice for shooting.

Haha very true, but I guess I'm old fashioned of a WAAAGH!

Aside from the shoota/slugga debate, anyone have any thoughts on this list? Is it viable?

Is it competative?

Any other ideas?

Viable? Sure. The core of a kanwall is well a wall of 9 kans and a boatload of boyz with KFF meks

everything else is support. If you're not worrying about kp then some deff kopta suicide units could be used in place of lootas

Personally over lootas I like kommandos with snikrot in em. For a kan wall thats slow, a unit that pops out behind your enemy is very good at being a huge distraction, and can pop a tank too. Dont get me wrong lootas are good, but I find a full snikrot unit in a kan wall build is just so versatile.

Orock wrote:Personally over lootas I like kommandos with snikrot in em. For a kan wall thats slow, a unit that pops out behind your enemy is very good at being a huge distraction, and can pop a tank too. Dont get me wrong lootas are good, but I find a full snikrot unit in a kan wall build is just so versatile.

I have been doing this but find that snikrot and gang usually only net me one KP, usually longfangs or havok squads, something like that. They then lose me two KPs. I just cant justify it in a game that seems to revolve around KP's (in annihilation, anyways)

Hytep wrote:

Orock wrote:Personally over lootas I like kommandos with snikrot in em. For a kan wall thats slow, a unit that pops out behind your enemy is very good at being a huge distraction, and can pop a tank too. Dont get me wrong lootas are good, but I find a full snikrot unit in a kan wall build is just so versatile.

I have been doing this but find that snikrot and gang usually only net me one KP, usually longfangs or havok squads, something like that. They then lose me two KPs. I just cant justify it in a game that seems to revolve around KP's (in annihilation, anyways)

How does a Kommando unit lose you 2 KP?

Erudog wrote:

Hytep wrote:

Orock wrote:Personally over lootas I like kommandos with snikrot in em. For a kan wall thats slow, a unit that pops out behind your enemy is very good at being a huge distraction, and can pop a tank too. Dont get me wrong lootas are good, but I find a full snikrot unit in a kan wall build is just so versatile.

I have been doing this but find that snikrot and gang usually only net me one KP, usually longfangs or havok squads, something like that. They then lose me two KPs. I just cant justify it in a game that seems to revolve around KP's (in annihilation, anyways)

How does a Kommando unit lose you 2 KP?

Dude, I totally thought Snikrot was an IC!

Thanks!

With this new discovery, I may drop the lootas and the 'ard boyz upgrade and throw in a squad of commandos. They should make back their KP relatively easily.

Yep, no problem. I thought there was something wrong there, so I thought i'd be sure you knew it was actually a 1 KP unit, which I personally love. They make their value in points back almost every time for me in my Kan Wall. If they're not getting a crucial KP for you in a KP game, they are oftentimes getting a crucial contested territory move in an objective game. They are an extremely versatile unit, but I have found that in lower point games especially, they should be taken in few numbers. I usually do somewhere around 7-8 total Kommandos with 2 burnas. In higher point games, you can take a full squad as they are pretty resilient and having 5 str 5 attacks per combat (after the first assault) from Snikrot is pretty nice to tarpit a lot of units and chip away at them.

Ideally, my elite slots would go to a unit of kommandos and 2 units of 5 lootas in lower point games.

Here is a possible list. I have 2 loota squads for punching transports, these guys will be in ruins or area terrain for the whole fight so they SHOULD last the whole time. Shouldnt have a lot of fire directed at them considering the green tide coming at them. I also threw in the snikrot gang, seeing a show now they are one KP and can almost guarantee to make their KP back. The rest is a simple kan wall, 9 kans, 2 big meks, and a crapton of boyz following. Dropped from 5 squads of 30 to 4 squads to open up points for the commandos and lootas. Up to 12 total KPs now, but the extra KP gaines from going with two squads of lootas shouldnt matter, reasoning stated above.

HQ
Big Mek
- Kustom Force Field Total: 85
Big Mek
- Kustom Force Field Total: 85

Elites
8 Lootas Total: 120
8 Lootas Total: 120
15 Kommandos
- Snikrot
- 2 Burnas Total: 265
Troops
30 Shoota Boyz
- Nob
- Power Klaw
- Bosspole Total: 220
30 Shoota Boyz
- Nob
- Power Klaw
- Bosspole Total: 220
30 Shoota Boyz
- Nob
- Power Klaw
- Bosspole Total: 220
29 Choppa n' Slugga Boyz
- Nob
- Power Klaw
- Bosspole Total: 214
Heavy Support
3 Killa Kans
- 3 Rokkit Total: 150
3 Killa Kans
- 3 Rokkit Total: 150
3 Killa Kans
- 3 Rokkit Total: 150
TOTAL POINTS: 1999
2 HQ
3 ELITE
4 TROOPS
3 HEAVY SUPPORT
12 KILLPOINTS POSSIBLE

Have you read the many many many links about loota squads working in 5 or 15 units? It just makes sense.

skycapt44 wrote:Have you read the many many many links about loota squads working in 5 or 15 units? It just makes sense.

I sure haven't. Looks like ill be looking in to that.