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Made in us
Omnipotent Lord of Change





Albany, NY

Next Sunday is a 2000 point local tournament, so I put out a plea to Albany to help me test out my intended list. Guy who stepped up generally runs multiple warshrine, tizz deathstar warriors … but since I made snarky comments about facing that list, he brought his demons instead! Though in truth it was a change for the better – I’ve faced WoC a lot in 8th (who hasn’t?), but not DoC once.

SKAVEN 2000

L: Grey Seer – seed of rebirth
L: Warlord – ogre blade, dragonhelm, talisman of preservation, bonebreaker

H: Assassin – blade of corruption
H: Chieftain – BSB, enchanted shield, foul pendant, ironcurse icon

C: 30 Clanrats – full command, shields
C: 30 Clanrats – full command, shields
C: 30 Clanrats – full command, shields
C: 36 Slaves – pawleader, musician

S: 6 Plague Censer Bearers
S: 6 Plague Censer Bearers
S: 5 Gutter Runners – poison
S: 5 Gutter Runners – poison

R: Hellpit Abomination
R: Warp Lightning Cannon

Definitely the most tuned of my lists. The alternative version of this list has two doom-flayers in place of the WLC and the back rank of slaves, but I was leery to go into a somewhat-more-competitive event with no shooting phase, and the WLC solves problems that doom-flayers can’t remotely touch. So the little grinder dudes will have to wait a bit more.

DEMONS 2000

L: Bloodthirster – immortal fury (reroll all hits), spell breaker (‘dispel scroll’)

H: Herald of Nurgle – BSB, level 1, standard of sundering (-2 to spells cast from 1 magic lore), slime trail (no CR for being flanked or reared), noxious vapors (enemy in base ASL), palanquin
H: Herald of Tzeentch – master of death, spell breaker

C: 33 Bloodletters – full command, icon of endless war (1 +D6” charge)
C: 21 Plaguebearers – standard, standard of seeping decay (reroll wounds)
C: 22 Horrors – standard, icon of sorcery (+1 to cast for unit)

Whoa (but it could certainly be stronger). Mostly concerned for Big Red, but that was a lot of letters too! I had only one plan for them, and would need luck and his bloodthirstiness to carry it off ...

MAGIC

Grey Seer [1 Ruin, 3 Plague]: scorch, pestilent breath, wither, plague

Tizz Herald: all Death
Horror Unit: flickering fire (magic missile), gift of chaos (12” damage bubble)
Nurg Herald: rancid visitation (magic missile)

Standard of Sundering nerfed my Plague spells

SCENARIO, TERRAIN & DEPLOYMENT

He really didn’t want to use my Mundane Terrain Chart or scatter terrain, but he gave in to my demands Unfortunately terrain came up fairly lame: 2 large hills, 1 tall thin hill, 1 large wood, 2 long fences. We diced up Battleline for scenario and got to deploying, which didn’t take him long!



His heralds joined their respective units. My BSB rode with first clanrats, grey seer with second, LT breaker with third. Assassin hide in the first clanrats, and both gutters scouted, to annoy the horrors / thirster and to divert the letters.

Note that unlike what the maps show, we were playing almost entirely in the right two feet of the table – that central thin hill was further to the right, and my line was much more compact. It seemed like a terrible idea to face demons on a third of the board, but was hard to get away from once models hit table

He got first turn with a 7 to my 5, debated letting me faff around first, but then decided to take the initiative.

BATTLE
Turn 1


Bloodthirster swoops forward, bloodletters power ahead (they are in fact 8-wide, not horded), as does the plague block. The tizz guys reform to cheekily bring themselves within 12” of my gutters, to gift them away, but all of his magic (gift, visitation) is denied by my seer.



The left censers, out of BSB and general range, frenzy-charge into the thirster, ensuring the WLC won’t get to shoot him The hellpit slams forward 13”, followed by the gutters mobilizing to harass horrors and to divert letters. The grey seer hops out of his unit to gain range on the letters, and some blocks shuffle around. Magic gives a mediocre 7 dice, but that’s all I need: 6 dice go into plague on the bloodletters. While it doesn’t go IF, he miraculously doesn’t spell break it, choosing (and failing) to match it with his own 6 dice! 15 or so bloodletters (including the champion) rot away, and then the plague jumps to the horrors and 10+ of those unliving monsters keel over as well! Sweet baby cats, I missed that spell Then the WLC takes its only shot of the game, nuking 4 plaguebearers with a perfectly centered template. Oh, the plague censers are splattered, with Big Red turning to eye up the skaven line.

Turn 2


Bloodthirsty demons are bloodthirsty: Fred flanks my BSB’s rats (terror passed), the bloodletters wheel into the gutters, and the plaguers charge the hellpit right in front of them. The mangled horrors reform to 5-wide. Magic blows strong but amounts to nothing, as the only Death spell in range that I care about is doom & darkness, and it’s crushed with dice. When it comes to smashing things, the thirster starts things off by crushing the skaven clawleader into pulp, but the clanrats hold on steadfast 10. The letters lose a couple to the gutters (?!), then (with only 6 un-rerolled attaks) kill 4 of the ninjas, choose to pursue and fall 1” short of catching him. The plaguers get to strike the hellpit first, manage 2 wounds through his regen, but when the beast avalanches them in return a mere 4 plaguebearers die, thanks to a sorry 5 auto-hits, 1 t-stomp and solid regens from him. The hellpit fails his stubborn break and is run down. Sadness and confusion reigns across the skaven lines, but only momentarily.



The trap springs shut on the bloodletters, with censers charging into their flank. LT leads his clanrats into the plague block to get the carnage started over there too, while slaves prepare to hurl themselves into the Buttocks of Khorne, the gutters continue their orbit of the horrors, and the seer prepares to mess with Big Red. Also, the surviving bait gutter rallies on snake eyes Magic ends up with plague on the bloodletters spell broken, but the thirster withered down to T5! Shooting sees a shocking 2 horrors downed by gutter stars, and the laser cannon crew break out their lunch, since this game is over for them. Combat is brutal all around, beginning with the censers losing one of their own to smell tests and then shredding the letters to just six left. The plague combat revs up with LT knocking down some plaguebearers, the nurgle herald squishing the clawleader and perhaps some clanrats dying. Nurgle loses but doesn’t care. The thirster is challenged out by the skaven assassin (in what we decided later was an illegal move, as combats only can ever have one challenge go on? I had heard rumors of this change in 8th but never double-checked, but I guess that’s how it works. Lame), hits himself with his blade of corruption, dodges himself, and doesn’t wound the demon anyway. He is pulped, but saves the unit from being t-stomped. Somebody loses but nobody cares.

Turn 3


The horrors get away from the gutters and into range for a few more spells … but he’s still shut down in the magic phase. The killing continues with more plaguers dying, more clanrats dying, and a wound on both the nurgle herald and LT! Nurgle loses but doesn’t care. The censers finish what they started, killing 5 of the remaining bloodletters and letting the last one pop, then reforming to get a little closer to the advancing horrors. Annnd the thirster challenges the BSB, who walks to the back and watches as clanrats die in droves. The skaven steadfast.



Already covered in red ichor, the censers charge the horrors to add a little pink to the pallet. And the slaves are forced into the thirster’s rear, but such is life. The seer tries to wither Big Red again, but is spell broken for his failure to go IF. Then the brutalizing commences, as the plague censers lose one to their own stinkiness, shatter half of the horrors and watch the rest poof away. Elsewhere some plaguebearers died but nobody cared, and loads more clanrats were crushed by a greater demon, who astoundingly was wounded by a slave’s hurled rock to the nether region! The thirster loses combat, but keeps it together despite. Finally, I remember to combat reform my clanrats to face their destroyer.

Turn 4


It’s all over for the demons but the fighting. The plaguebearers are finally wiped out by LT, and the BSB pops at long last. The thirster has a weak round, with hot parries from me, loses but cares not.



LT mobilizes in case he’s needed to help punch the best out before game end, and it’s on to magic. Unopposed, the grey seer withers the thirster down to an embarrassing T4. Though the greater demon crushes the clanrats down to command + the BSB, the slave pawleader astoundingly manages to wound the monster twice (2 attaks, 5+ to hit, 5+ to wound, 5+ armor, 5+ ward), sending him raging back to the warp.

Skaven Victory

Thoughts to come, time for lunch and some work.

- Salvage

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/03/14 18:46:23


KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

Awesome report - thanks!

You've got me second-guessing myself now, but I don't think there's anything against serial challenges; you just can't have parallel challenges (one must finish before another begins). But now I'll have to go look it up.

(It was a very friendly DoC list, as such things go - 33 Bloodletters, but no Herald of Khorne? Plaguebearers? No Flamers?!?)

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Lord of Change





Albany, NY

Janthkin wrote:You've got me second-guessing myself now, but I don't think there's anything against serial challenges; you just can't have parallel challenges (one must finish before another begins). But now I'll have to go look it up.
He was reading BRB 102 as RAW as possible: "Only one challenge can be issued per close combat." My counter is BRB 103 - "Further challenges cannot be issued in that combat until the existing challenge has been resolved" - but there seems to be a lack of defining temporally what they mean by "close combat," whether that's the entire combat (i.e. until one side dies off or breaks) or simply that round, or what. I've never played the "one challenge, ever" way but I've heard it raised, and my opponent here went on a mini-rant about how it's used to bone his warriors all the time.

On the topic of rules oddities, my opponent was also playing that demons can never benefit from steadfast, as it conflicts with their instability rules in various RAW ways. I didn't care to read it one way or the other, and agreed that demons didn't exactly need steadfast to help them out. But he also was adamant that demonic unit banners can never be claimed, due to RAW conflicts with instability and banner claiming in 8th. I don't remember looking in the DoC FAQ, so no idea if it's covered there (or if there's really any issue).

- Salvage

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/03/14 20:16:03


KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

Boss Salvage wrote:
Janthkin wrote:You've got me second-guessing myself now, but I don't think there's anything against serial challenges; you just can't have parallel challenges (one must finish before another begins). But now I'll have to go look it up.
He was reading BRB 102 as RAW as possible: "Only one challenge can be issued per close combat." My counter is BRB 103 - "Further challenges cannot be issued in that combat until the existing challenge has been resolved" - but there seems to be a lack of defining temporally what they mean by "close combat," whether that's the entire combat (i.e. until one side dies off or breaks) or simply that round, or what. I've never played the "one challenge, ever" way but I've heard it raised, and my opponent here went on a mini-rant about how it's used to bone his warriors all the time.

On the topic of rules oddities, my opponent was also playing that demons can never benefit from steadfast, as it conflicts with their instability rules in various RAW ways. I didn't care to read it one way or the other, and agreed that demons didn't exactly need steadfast to help them out. But he also was adamant that demonic unit banners can never be claimed, due to RAW conflicts with instability and banner claiming in 8th. I don't remember looking in the DoC FAQ, so no idea if it's covered there (or if there's really any issue).
Those are all very odd interpretations. I don't even see a conflict between Instability and Steadfast (and, in fact, one of the Slaaneshi banners makes the unit Stubborn for the first test). But hey - if he wants to stab his own foot, let him.

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in dk
Angry Chaos Agitator




Very nice batrep. And congrats on the win!

Your censer bearers did absolutely awesome in this battle!
How come they did so good? I mean, how come they were not destroyed in cc with the letters, before getting to hack?
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Lord of Change





Albany, NY

Janthkin wrote:Those are all very odd interpretations. I don't even see a conflict between Instability and Steadfast (and, in fact, one of the Slaaneshi banners makes the unit Stubborn for the first test). But hey - if he wants to stab his own foot, let him.
Word. I pointed out that in the BRB steadfast = stubborn, and demons clearly are intended to benefit from stubborn, but he wasn't buying it. The hinge of his argument apparently had to do with Watchtower, where there's some line that if you fail a steadfast test while defending it then you flee out, but you don't otherwise. If demons can never flee, then they can never fail a steadfast test while in the tower, which means they can never take a steadfast test in the first place, ever. Something like that?

LordofMuck wrote:Your censer bearers did absolutely awesome in this battle!
How come they did so good? I mean, how come they were not destroyed in cc with the letters, before getting to hack?
Thanks Muck! I do love me some PCB (though they didn't do so hot vs the thirster ). Part of the reason they rocked the bloodletters' world was because by diverting with the gutter runners I was able to flank the letters instead of meeting them head on. He only had two letters on the flank, so only got 2 attaks (which he missed with), and I got 11 hatred S5 attaks in return (along with the +2CR for charging in the flank). If he had had a herald he would have had hatred too, but he also could have slid that herald over and brutalized by censers himself. So I suppose credit should be shared amongst me using tactics, him not taking a herald, and censers being totally awesome

- Salvage

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/03/14 22:40:32


KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos





On the perfumed wind

Diverters FTW! He probably shouldn't have chased after one single gutter runner, and instead reformed to face threats.

I was also surprised he didn't try to flickering fire the gutters in his deployment zone.

Impressive flop by the HPA, by the way! When you only ever have to face the things on the other side of the board, it's easy to forget that sort of thing can even happen...

Looking forward to your report on the 2K tourney. We've got a 2.5K this weekend I'll try to document as well.

“It was in lands of the Chi-An where she finally ran him to ground. There she kissed him deeply as he lay dying, and so stole from him his last, agonized breath.

On a delicate chain at her throat, she keeps it with her to this day.”
 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Lord of Change





Albany, NY

Red_Zeke wrote:Diverters FTW! He probably shouldn't have chased after one single gutter runner, and instead reformed to face threats.

I was also surprised he didn't try to flickering fire the gutters in his deployment zone.

Impressive flop by the HPA, by the way! When you only ever have to face the things on the other side of the board, it's easy to forget that sort of thing can even happen...

Looking forward to your report on the 2K tourney. We've got a 2.5K this weekend I'll try to document as well.

Go fig on the pursuit, but no complaints from me. Flickering fire would need a reform as well, and I think the damage is comparable to gift of chaos, so this way he at least pointed forward? Definitely a place where a musician would have come in handy ... but don't they always? When Pitty gently caressed the plaguers and then got himself run over I was indeed a little put off, but it just meant that once again LT rose to the occasion <3

Are you saying I should take some pictures this weekend, RZ? Get a little batrep challenge up in this bitch??

- Salvage

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/03/15 00:48:28


KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




For what it's worth, I agree that daemons can't be steadfast, because a break test is not an instability test, and steadfast is for break tests. I admit it's a pretty neat point, though.

Your reports are great. Way to not take the 13th spell and blast the hell out of the horrors, but still win: applause! You make me not hate skaven with a deathless bitter vengeance any more... quite as much.

Manchu wrote:It's a lie, K_K, pure Imperial propaganda. Where's the Talon of Horus, huh? Plus everyone knows the Imperium planned and carried out the invasion of Cadia itself. Bin Abaddon was just a convenient scapegoat.
 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos





On the perfumed wind

Boss Salvage wrote:
Are you saying I should take some pictures this weekend, RZ? Get a little batrep challenge up in this bitch??


Accepted, good sir!

“It was in lands of the Chi-An where she finally ran him to ground. There she kissed him deeply as he lay dying, and so stole from him his last, agonized breath.

On a delicate chain at her throat, she keeps it with her to this day.”
 
   
Made in ca
Been Around the Block




Great report! Glad to have another of yours to read.

Glad to see SeerBreaker is successful so far. 1 for 1 is way better than HatBreaker did

HPA: Boo!
PCBs: Yay!

I'm looking forward to using a couple units of PCBs and PWGs, as I haven't used either yet. Gutter Runners I liked when I used them once. Definitely need to give them another go.

Can't wait to see more from the tourney.

p.s. love all the skulls
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Lancaster PA

Awesome report as always man. I always appreciate being able to play vicariously through you

Your opponent is quite wrong though, serial challenges are fine as Janthkin pointed out. One per combat means that even if you have 10 units from each side engaged you only get one challenge at a time in that battle. Everyone else has to stand in line till one of the challengers is pulped, then the next challenge can be issued. You are correct in referencing page 103, as that says what happens after the first round of combat, whether the challenge is still going on or has finished up.


Woad to WAR... on Celts blog, which is mostly Circle Orboros
"I'm sick of auto-penetrating attacks against my behind!" - Kungfuhustler 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

It's interesting how well your small units are doing for you. I have a friend who swears by MSU in 8th (he's currently constructing a marauder cav list, having previously run beastmen chariot spam). I haven't seen it do well myself, but I can imagine lots of cheap units driving deathstar-type players bonkers...
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Lancaster PA

That's interesting... is his list on the boards here? I wonder if you could tie up a lot of points in mounted characters, have 7-10 marauder cav running around with each of them to protect them from cannons etc, and just rip up small enemies while avoiding the biggins. Cheeky, but nifty sounding.


Woad to WAR... on Celts blog, which is mostly Circle Orboros
"I'm sick of auto-penetrating attacks against my behind!" - Kungfuhustler 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Indeed... and maybe something you could pull off with centaurs, since they look more marauder-y than knight-y anyway!

Will see if I can get his list from him and PM it to you.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Lancaster PA

Stop changing your avatar... all this reading of names you are making me do is making it difficult to tell who is saying what! :-P

I am actually leaning towards a Beastmen base for a centaur heavy army, and just building units that can be swapped for various different armies' stuff if I feel like it. Sort of the fantasy version of "I have an army or marines that can count at 47 flavors." This way, both games I manage to play in 2012 can be with different armies...


Woad to WAR... on Celts blog, which is mostly Circle Orboros
"I'm sick of auto-penetrating attacks against my behind!" - Kungfuhustler 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

I had to find a monster I was happy with . This one is from a video game I just bought, so I'm pretty happy with it (i.e. won't be changing it for a bit!). I have the same experience of not reading names with avatars I know...

That's a good idea about just making them whatever you need, I think. I've hit upon the same- with my army, if I get some orcs I can run a giant block of trolls with O&G. And if I happen to get any goblins by doing so... well, I could run them as gnoblars with my ogres and play as OK! Three armies with overlapping parts...

For now, I'm thinking of getting the Mantic orcs when they're released, and go from there. Anyway, if I have further thoughts I will PM you as I have gone rather far afield from Seerbreaker, here! Although I am very curious how Salvage's tourney went yesterday, maybe he'll post up some bat reps .
   
Made in ph
Rough Rider with Boomstick






RiTides wrote:It's interesting how well your small units are doing for you. I have a friend who swears by MSU in 8th (he's currently constructing a marauder cav list, having previously run beastmen chariot spam). I haven't seen it do well myself, but I can imagine lots of cheap units driving deathstar-type players bonkers...


such is the role of empire detachments...to get run over again and again....



40K 5th ed W/L/D
65/4/6, 10/2/1, 10/3/0, 2/0/1, 0/1/1

40K 6th ed W/L/D
1/0/0

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