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So what happens with Stormraven and dread+unit inside if Stormraven fail his LD test from Crucible?
It itself are removed from the game, but what about package? Normally you disembark\fall from it when vehicle destroyed, but in current case it was not destroyed but was sent to nowhere..

The same as would happen in almost every other case that the vehicle was removed??? The embarked models are destroyed. Same as if you can't get a transport fully onto the board, or if it suffers a deepstrike mishap.

Of course, I dont have a BRB in front of me at the moment, so I could be wrong, but that is the way I can think of that it would be played.

if this so, then sweet

How can a Stormrave fail aLD test from CoM? It's not Psyker, if it is could you please provide the quote showing that it is so?

GK Stormraven have Psychic Pilot rule. Psychic Pilot = Psyker.

Really, where's the rule that states 'Pyskic Pilot: Vehicle with this rule count as Psykers... use LD...' etc.

Please, quote the Psykic Pilot rule and show how vehicles with this rule count as Psykers.

Psychic pilot:
A vehicle with this special rule is treated as being a psyker (Mastery level 1) and Leadership 10 for the purposes of Psychic tests and psychic hoods. If vehicle suffers the Perils of the Warp, treat it as a glancing hit.

Same situation as with BA Dreads.. BA Dreads fall victim of CoM after BA faq. i don't see any difference between BA Lib Dreads and any GK vehicles (who all have Psy.Pilot rule)

ChrisCP wrote:How can a Stormrave fail aLD test from CoM? It's not Psyker, if it is could you please provide the quote showing that it is so?

Sure can. If you get a chance, look at the new GK codex in your FLGS. Under the Psychic Pilot rule, it states that a vehicle with this special rule is treated as being a psyker (Pshichic Mastery Level 1), and is Ld10 for Psychic Tests and Psychic Hoods.

Edit, wow managed to misread "psychic tests".

If one could show that the 'Leadership Test' as stated by CoM is a "Psychic test" then yes they fall pray to the BA dread set, which still needs another update to the FAQ to settle if wargear forcing tests on psykers or 'counts as/treated' is a psychic purpose/test. Which If feel really are sepearate issues what's a 'psykic purpose' is it a test for being a psyker? (I personally feel yes) and does any LD test count as a 'Psykic Test' as they are 'a normal Leadership test.' Pg 50 brb.

penek wrote:Psychic pilot:
A vehicle with this special rule is treated as being a psyker (Mastery level 1) and Leadership 10 for the purposes of Psychic tests and psychic hoods. If vehicle suffers the Perils of the Warp, treat it as a glancing hit.

Same situation as with BA Dreads.. BA Dreads fall victim of CoM after BA faq. i don't see any difference between BA Lib Dreads and any GK vehicles (who all have Psy.Pilot rule)

No comment on the actual question as I'm not familiar with the BA FAQ but it sounds like that would give a precedence for it working. I'm curious about the wording of CoM though. It is "a leadership test" right? So "a leadership test" vs "...being a psyker (Mastery level 1) and Leadership 10 for the purposes of Psychic tests ..." would imply that any LD test a psyker makes is a psychic test, which should open up the risk of perils on all of them too

then you need read BA FAQ
Q: A Furioso Librarian counts as being Leadership 10 for
all psychic purposes. What exactly does this mean? (p29)
A: It means that for Psychic tests, for using a psychic hood
and for being affected by psychic powers, special rules or
wargear that affect psykers and require a Leadership
value, they are counted as being Leadership 10.

its perfectly clear that all GK vehicles fall in same category.

TheFuzziestBear wrote:No comment on the actual question as I'm not familiar with the BA FAQ but it sounds like that would give a precedence for it working. I'm curious about the wording of CoM though. It is "a leadership test" right? So "a leadership test" vs "...being a psyker (Mastery level 1) and Leadership 10 for the purposes of Psychic tests ..." would imply that any LD test a psyker makes is a psychic test, which should open up the risk of perils on all of them too

Not all LD test for Psykers are Psychic Tests. They still take normal Ld tests for everythign that requires them, i.E. 25% losses in a squad, morale, pinning, so on and so forth.

Unless it specifically states it is a Psychic Test, then it is just a normal Ld test that targets psykers (in the case of CoM).

No it isn't. Psykic Purposes is far more broard than 'Psychic Tests', see how the FAQ mentions both? CoM asks for Psykers to take a LD test.

P. Pilots say 'is treated as being a psyker (Mastery level 1) and Leadership 10 for the purposes of Psychic tests and psychic hoods' or "is treated as being XXXYY the purposes of YYYXX".

The LD Test asked for by CoM is not a Psychic Test nor is it a Hood.

Galador wrote:

TheFuzziestBear wrote:No comment on the actual question as I'm not familiar with the BA FAQ but it sounds like that would give a precedence for it working. I'm curious about the wording of CoM though. It is "a leadership test" right? So "a leadership test" vs "...being a psyker (Mastery level 1) and Leadership 10 for the purposes of Psychic tests ..." would imply that any LD test a psyker makes is a psychic test, which should open up the risk of perils on all of them too

Not all LD test for Psykers are Psychic Tests. They still take normal Ld tests for everythign that requires them, i.E. 25% losses in a squad, morale, pinning, so on and so forth.

Unless it specifically states it is a Psychic Test, then it is just a normal Ld test that targets psykers (in the case of CoM).

You seemd to have missed the fact that I was aware of that, just calling out that ithe wording could have set a precedence to misunderstand that. Luckily the FAQ IS worded well so there's no worry. It was just an amusing possibility that jumped out at me.

TheFuzziestBear wrote:
You seemd to have missed the fact that I was aware of that, just calling out that ithe wording could have set a precedence to misunderstand that. Luckily the FAQ IS worded well so there's no worry. It was just an amusing possibility that jumped out at me.

At least you aren't playing the "well they dont have leadership but are affected so they automatically die" card

TheFuzziestBear wrote:
You seemd to have missed the fact that I was aware of that, just calling out that ithe wording could have set a precedence to misunderstand that. Luckily the FAQ IS worded well so there's no worry. It was just an amusing possibility that jumped out at me.

Sorry about that. Must have misunderstood you slightly.

Galador wrote:

TheFuzziestBear wrote:
You seemd to have missed the fact that I was aware of that, just calling out that ithe wording could have set a precedence to misunderstand that. Luckily the FAQ IS worded well so there's no worry. It was just an amusing possibility that jumped out at me.

Sorry about that. Must have misunderstood you slightly.

T'sall good, these things happen. Especially with the topic being so intricate.

then you need read BA FAQ
Q: A Furioso Librarian counts as being Leadership 10 for
all psychic purposes. What exactly does this mean? (p29)
A: It means that for Psychic tests, for using a psychic hood
and for being affected by psychic powers, special rules or
wargear that affect psykers and require a Leadership
value, they are counted as being Leadership 10.

its perfectly clear that all GK vehicles fall in same category.

Except the 2 rules are worded differently and that is a BA codex at the moment all GK vehicles (except Chimeras) are instantly removed with a CoM. They have no ability to pass a leadership test thus they are removed (as they are not removed for failing but removed for not passing). They only have leadership for psychic tests and psychic hoods.

FlingitNow wrote:

then you need read BA FAQ
Q: A Furioso Librarian counts as being Leadership 10 for
all psychic purposes. What exactly does this mean? (p29)
A: It means that for Psychic tests, for using a psychic hood
and for being affected by psychic powers, special rules or
wargear that affect psykers and require a Leadership
value, they are counted as being Leadership 10.

its perfectly clear that all GK vehicles fall in same category.

Except the 2 rules are worded differently and that is a BA codex at the moment all GK vehicles (except Chimeras) are instantly removed with a CoM. They have no ability to pass a leadership test thus they are removed (as they are not removed for failing but removed for not passing). They only have leadership for psychic tests and psychic hoods.

Gk vehicles are not psykers.

they are Ld10 psykers for the purposes of Psychic tests and hoods only.


Psychic pilot doesn't say that they are a psyker. it says they are a psyker for Psychic tests and Psychic hoods only.



Psychic tests are not Ld tests anymore then Panic, pinning, or break tests are Ld tests.


Fearless models are immune to panic and break tests. they are not immune to Pinning or Ld tests.


the only thing these tests have in common is that they use the Ld characteristic when determining if they pass. this doesn't make them a Ld test.

Gk vehicles are not psykers.

they are Ld10 psykers for the purposes of Psychic tests and hoods only.

Well that depends on how you interprete the sentence it could easily mean they are psykers (with a mastery level of 1) and that for psychic tests and hoods they count as leadership 10.

I'd never even considered your interpretation until you pointed it out as the English naturally reads my way. But looking at it new I can see the merit in your interpretation and in that case they would not be effected at all.

I'm 99% sure when they FaQ it they will say they are psykers but are considered Ld10 for all purposes as they have with the BA Librarians.

At the moment by RaW you could argue that they are either instantly removed or totally uneffected.

Stormravens, or any other vehicle, can not be affected by CoM.

The vehicle is not a Psyker. It doesn't have a LD in its profile, it is just a vehicle. It 'counts as' LD 10 for the purposes of casting its psychic powers, and for being blocked by a psychic hood.

Beyond that, it is just a vehicle, and it does not have a LD value. Crucible will not work on it.

The vehicle is not a Psyker.

Except the rules say it is treated as one.

FlingitNow wrote:

The vehicle is not a Psyker.

Except the rules say it is treated as one FOR THE PURPOSES OF PSYCHIC TESTS AND PSYCHIC HOODS.

fixed that for you.

But thats not what it says. It says LD 10 for purposes of hoods and psychic tests, but it is treated as a psyker.

The psyker part is still the same sentence.


"it is treated as a psyker and is Ld10 for the purposes of Psychic tests and hoods"


you are adding a comma between Psyker and And where there isn't any.

like this "it is treated as a psyker, and is Ld10 for the purposes of Psychic tests and hoods"

You're inserting a comma after Ld10 where there isn't one like this:

"it is treated as a psyker and is Ld10, for the purposes of Psychic tests and hoods"

FlingitNow wrote:But thats not what it says. It says LD 10 for purposes of hoods and psychic tests, but it is treated as a psyker.

Read it again.

'A vehicle with this special rule is treated as being a psyker (Mastery level 1) and Leadership 10 for the purposes of Psychic tests and psychic hoods. '

It is treated as being a psyker and Leadership 10 for the purposes of Psychic tests and psychic hoods.

Only for the purposes of Psychic tests and psychic hoods does it act as a Psyker and LD10.

Vehicles are not affected.

P.S. I did not insert a comma.

That was in reverence to Grey Templar saying I had inserted one.

I know what the sentence says and I'm just illustrating there are 2 ways to read it that the "for the purposes of Psychic tests and psychic hoods" part refers only to the Ld10 part or that it refers to both parts.

You can choose to use either houserule in your games we all know how it will be FaQ'd though and I doubt any sensible person would suggest playing it that all the vehicles are auto-removed.

I didn't insert a comma anywhere.

the full sentence is "it is treated as a psyker and is Ld10 for the purposes of Psychic tests and hoods"

no commas anywhere.

If that's a verbatim quote, it's quite easy to assume the following (in logical order):
1) A vehicle with this rule is treated as a psyker.
2) It has a leadership value of 10 for the purposes of psychic tests and hoods.

Primarily I interpret it this way due to the use of the conjuntion "and" after "psyker". This means that there is one condition and the second condition is added to the first. If the writer had wanted to be absolutely clear, a better way to write the rule would have been something like this:
"A vehicle with this special rule is treated as being a psyker (Mastery level 1) with a Leadership of 10 for the purposes of Psychic tests and psychic hoods. At no other time or in any other situation is a vehicle with this special rule to be considered a psyker. "

1 is not necessarily mutually exclusive or inclusive of 2.

In all fairness, when read that way, a person could understandably assume that a vehicle with the rule would have a leadership of zero normally and only has a leadership value at all in two, specific, circumstances.

Personally, I could see it either way and GW rules-writing being of such great quality (/sarcasm) this is on the same level as the Tyranid creature (Mawlok?) when the Tyranid book first came out.