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Hey,

i am wanting to do a tournament and i was thinking of taking a list a bit like this...

HQ

Belial w/ th/ss – 130

Troops

DW terminator squad w/ 2 th/ss, 2LC, Assault Cannon, CF – 250

DW terminator squad w/ 2 th/ss, 2LC, Assault Cannon, CF – 250

DW terminator squad w/ 2 th/ss, 2LC, HF, CF – 225

DW terminator squad w/ 2 th/ss, 2LC, HF, CF – 225

Fast attack

Deathwing bike squad w/ 2 meltas, power weapon, attack bike w/ MM – 205

Heavy Support

Whirlwind w/ storm bolter – 90

Vindicator w/ storm bolter – 130
____
1500

now, o am thinking instead of taking to assault cannons for my termies should i take a land speeder with a multi melta and a typhoon ML if i drop the power weapon on the bikes. yes or no?

- madman12367

please comment

I would drop the Whirlwind and get a Landspeeder, the reason being is that you have enough anti horde with HFs and Vindicator. One more thing I can think of is getting CMLs on the AC squads and that might give you enough points to grab two melta land speeders with the extra points.

I'd agree with the above about the speeder. I'd almost say get rid of the heavy flamers. If someone knows you have flamers they will do their best to spread out, you will probably average about the same with a assault cannon in those.

Great usage of the mixed weapons.

Also see if you can get a speeder with Typhoon Missile Launchers, as we get the dirt cheap now.

You really need to see if you can squeeze the points for the apothecary. FNP would be sick. So would + 1 A if you can afford it.

Also, just a quick question.. WTF is a deathwing bike squad..

I'd trade the bike squad for a pair of Typhoon Speeders with Multimeltas and upgrade the Whirlwind to another Vindicator. Looks good otherwise though.

I wouldn't.. Bikes would allow for alot of manouverability with the Deathwing Assault. not to mention once termies are on the board will probably get ignored while they run rampant in the back field. The teleporter homers will provide a wonderful back field advantage.

But I'm also biased towards bikes.... just a little info on my perspective

mpangelu wrote:I wouldn't.. Bikes would allow for alot of manouverability with the Deathwing Assault. not to mention once termies are on the board will probably get ignored while they run rampant in the back field. The teleporter homers will provide a wonderful back field advantage.

But I'm also biased towards bikes.... just a little info on my perspective

I don't think I'd even be using Deathwing Assault very much, sometimes, but not often. The mass of Terminators can walk into the middle of the table and OWN it. It will be very, very hard to displace them. I wasn't paying attention to the wargear on the Termies when I originally commented though... I'd be running it with 5x TH/SS and a Cyclone Missile Launcher in each unit(and 1 unit would have an Apothecary for FNP). Killing 20 of them quickly while taking 12 Missiles and 2 Vindicator shots per turn isn't going to be a simple task. You basically move your brick of really hard to kill stuff into the center of the board and dare your opponent to come and try to kick you out. He probably won't be able to do it. You've got Speeders (each of which has better AT shooting than a Bike squad for a fraction of the points) for mobile fire and Vinidcators for hammering big units, or dealing with stuff that has a 2+ save.

I would agree with that. That is a much tougher aspect. I can't personally do that myself. I'd still need 1 shooty squad, just seems like otherwise its too easy to overwhelmed. Plus trying to stick to wha tthe OP had in his list without changing too much as its his style I imagine.

The reason i didn't take CML is because they only fire one shot so altogether 80 points for 4 shots when a tac squad can get it for only 40 i think is a bit of a waste, i was trying to fit in a LS but i put in a whirlind instead, i will swap the WW and put in a LS w/ TML for 75 points... sound good?

i don't like fielding 5 terminators all with the same weapon (in this case all TH/SS) because allocation, whhen it comes to a load of saves, even if not invunrable you have to take them all and that has a grater chance of more dying, granted a 2+ sv is the best but still mass fire power will pop some. maby i compromise and go, 3 TH/SS, 1 LC, 1 CF/HF.

i don't think it's right walking the terminators on when you can cut the job short and deepstrike them wiht no scatter (teleport homer from bikes) since bikes can scout and half termies come down first turn i think it's quite fun on the first turn have 2/3 of your army in their face and if you go closest to the non combat guys (providing they have some) even if they charge you you probbaly would still kill them and consolodate towards your next target in your turn.

thank you very much for the help you guys

just a little note, with a few games with this army i am yet to lose, dark eldar gave up, deathwing lost in turn 4, tau got wiped out, nids got wiped out, the list could go on...

- madman12367

Edit - i psoted in wrong thread, my bad, soz.

Just a note, your CML got updated, they fire 2 shots each now. DA now have the same weapons as the new space marines.

madman12367 wrote:The reason i didn't take CML is because they only fire one shot so altogether 80 points for 4 shots when a tac squad can get it for only 40 i think is a bit of a waste, i was trying to fit in a LS but i put in a whirlind instead, i will swap the WW and put in a LS w/ TML for 75 points... sound good?

i don't like fielding 5 terminators all with the same weapon (in this case all TH/SS) because allocation, whhen it comes to a load of saves, even if not invunrable you have to take them all and that has a grater chance of more dying, granted a 2+ sv is the best but still mass fire power will pop some. maby i compromise and go, 3 TH/SS, 1 LC, 1 CF/HF.

i don't think it's right walking the terminators on when you can cut the job short and deepstrike them wiht no scatter (teleport homer from bikes) since bikes can scout and half termies come down first turn i think it's quite fun on the first turn have 2/3 of your army in their face and if you go closest to the non combat guys (providing they have some) even if they charge you you probbaly would still kill them and consolodate towards your next target in your turn.

thank you very much for the help you guys

just a little note, with a few games with this army i am yet to lose, dark eldar gave up, deathwing lost in turn 4, tau got wiped out, nids got wiped out, the list could go on...

- madman12367

The DA codex has been updated via the latest GW FAQ (check their website for it). Stormshields now offer a 3+ invulnerable against everything, and the CML gets 2 shots. Wound allocation isn't going to be important with a pile of Stormshields running around. To be honest, it is most relevant when you've got a unit of multi-wound models because you can spread wounds around to make it take longer to remove a model from play, thus prolonging the time they spend at max combat effectiveness. With single wound models it can be nice to protect certain wargear for sure.

As for walking Terminators, it depends on the style of play. I'd run Deathwing as a more resilient force that is designed to be rock hard, extremely difficult to kill, and dominate the center of the table. If they cruise into the center of the board with 20+ TH/SS Terminators and 12+ Missile Launcher shots per turn, there won't be much at 1500 points that will want to come at it, and it'll be difficult to out-shoot because your stuff is so resilient to everything that it just doesn't die easily. Running with bikes and deepstriking in is definitely more aggressive, and that can be a very good thing. If I wanted to get in my opponent's face with my units like that though, I'd want as many Storm Shields as possible (even more than I want them while walking) because landing in close means I'm landing closer to things like Plasma Guns, which will tear non SS Terminators down very quickly.

ok so my list looks a bit like....

HQ

belial w/ TH/SS - 130

Troops

DW terminator squad w/ CML, CF, 4 TH/SS - 240

DW terminator squad w/ CML, CF, 4 TH/SS - 240

DW terminator squad w/ CML, CF, 4 TH/SS - 240

DW terminator squad w/ CML, CF, 4 TH/SS - 240

Fast attack

RW attack squadren w/ 2 meltas, attack bike w/ MM - 190

LS w/MM, TML - 75

Heavy Support

Vindicator - 125

now i need more anti mass things. i got 20 points, what do i do, if i find 5 points i can get a apothacary with TH/SS

- madman12367

Swap a Chainfist over to a TH/SS and you can afford the Apothecary.

If you switch th bikes over to a Typhoon you can get a second Vindicator as well. The bikes work better for a more aggressive style though as it lets you land your DWA termies better.

I would preferably have bikes because it jus helps with DWA and with 3 meltas running around it's quite fun, i will swap a chainfist for apothacary then for belial's squad, also makes it more durable. i feel i am let down on my shooting, i got some bikes, vindiactor and 1 LS. all with strong weapons but tet only 3 targets :/

- madman12367

Remember your Termies shoot too. As it is you've got strong shooting potential: 10 Missile Launcher shots, 4 Melta Weapons (two of which are multi meltas) and a Vinidcator every turn.

oh yeah, all very strong and can take tanks and troops so is that a sound list for a tourney? it needs to be able to face any army, T6 things are no problem and tanks have no issue, should i use DWA? mass armies have aa little problem sinec i have a small amount of guys/attacks and every one is a crutial part of the game so f there is many attacks (e.g orks) or mass shots (e.g guard) should i be alright.

Go for a second Vindy. I'd swap the bikes out for another vindy, maybe a typhoon too if you can somehow finagle the points.

what bounuses would that give me? i know a S10 large blast but the DWA is effective with the bikes and the 3 meltas tear through tanks

I don't think you'll be using dwa too often when it comes to it. Your stuff wants to be on the table to get those ML shots. You'll be deploying them all in proximity to each other for mutual support and owning the middle of the table.

what armies do you want to DWA against? Shooty armies won't muster a lot of low ap firepower at range, but they'll have a ton of it up close (plasma guns and such). Assaulty armies you'll want to play chess with so you can try to get the charge when possible, and deepstriking hurts this. I only see DWA being expressly useful when your opponent can sling a lot of ap2 shots out at long range, meaning you want to lose the gap super fast. Even then, that firepower would need to come from stuff that your missiles can't keep quiet as you walk. The army moves slow, which is a bit of a bummer, but when you think about it what's the rush? Your stuff is rock hard, it won't die quickly or easily. It will however, hurt almost anything at range or in close. Your big danger is being so heavily outnumbered that the power of your units doesn't compensate enough.

hordes will be toughest for you to deal with I think. Remember your Missile Launders can shoot frags, which is very helpful. I think a second Vindicator and second Typhoon would be really good in the horde matchup as you get 2 more small blasts and another big blast into the mix.

i agree, you can only take one LS with TML. i will lose the bikes and take a vindicator and.... should i take another LS? as everyone said?

You can take 1 LS with TML per Land Speeder squadron. If you take 2 squadrons of 1 model each, then they can both have Typhoon Missile Launchers. You should have exactly enough points for a Typhoon and a second Vindicator if you drop the Bikes and swap 2 more Chainfists over to TH/SS.

ok, it's annoying now i have to buy another vindicator :( ok..

HQ

belial w/TH/SS - 130

Troops

DW terminator squad w/5 TH/SS, CML - 235

DW terminator squad w/5 TH/SS, CML - 235

DW terminator squad w/4 TH/SS, CML, CF, apothacry - 265

DW terminator squad w/5 TH/SS, CML - 235

Fast attack

LS w/ TML, MM - 75

LS w/ TML, MM - 75

Heavy Support

Vindicator - 125

Vindicator - 125
_____
1500

yes for tourney?

I like it. To be honest you can play it the other way too with the bikes. I prefer the double Vindicator style more because I don't like to be super aggressive with Deathwing.

I wouldn't be afraid to take either version of the list to a tournament though, it really boils down to how you want to play the army and how your local meta is.

thanks for all the advise