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I thought it would look really great and orky if I put both las cannon sponsons on one side of the land raider, and the doors on the other side.  It's kinda like a mobile wall with a lot of firepower on the other side, and I didn't think it was all too unfair, and most of the people I play with think it's novel, cool, and pretty balanced.  But some people say it's against the rules, and I wasn't sure.  Is that breaking a rule, and if so could you show me where?  I'd appreciate it, I wouldn't wanna be too cheap with it.

That's not a Land Raider, with the guns like that, so it's not a "lootable" vehicle. Vehicles have set configurations. The only variance, in this case, is whether you set the LCs in the forward ports or in the rear... and really, they're supposed to go in the back.

So the orks couldn't have modifyed it to their liking? That stinks, but I'll just make a new one thats correct, thanks. =)

Vehicles have set configurations.

Huh? Since when?
Modellers can and have done just about anything and everything to the models. From making fixed guns turretted, to putting guns in weird places.

It most certainly is legal.

But I don't think it's all that ethical.

Read my sig.

You're not breaking any rules doing it that way, but you're no longer able to fire Lascannons at anything on the blindside.

There are pictures of what a Land Raider looks like; if it isn't built like that, it isn't a Land Raider. It's something else you've built using the kit, but it's not a Land Raider.

What are you talking about?  It's about the same size as a Land Raider, same shape, has two sponsoon mounted Lascannons, just like a Land Raider... yep, it's a looted Landraider all right.  Not much room for arguement there.

The relevant pages are SM 40, where in the weapon description it says,"The Land Raider is armed with... two side sponsoons equipped with twin linked Lascannons."  I don't see anything about them having to be on the same side.

Meanwhile, the Ork entry for Looted vehicles (page 16) states, "Also note that the model for a Looted vehicle must be converted and painted appropriately to show that it is being used by Orks." Scrounging up two right side sponsoons and no lefts is certainly an Orky thing to do. Which means that the OPs Looted LR is 100% legal by the RaW.

I'm talking about the rules that state "Access points: 3 (ramp in front, doors on each side)" or something to that effect. Since the doors would be on one side, that means either you've broken the rules for a Land Raider or made something entirely different which isn't on the looted-vehicle list.

Allowing this is equivalent to hacking a hole in the top of a Falcon and saying that it now has a fire point.

Except that Falcons don't have firepoints. A Land Raider does have two Lascannons. If you're going to try and call it on lack of a side exit, it's easy enough to hack an orky door in there somewhere, and there you go, you still have three access points. I suggest referring to Yakface's sig.

The original poster made no mention of making such a mod. Work with what we're given, rather than your own additions outside the problem.

You raised the valid point that as described, the OPs LAnd Raider would not be "legal" because it lacked an exit on both sides. All I did was show that all it needed to be 100% "legal" was a simple modification.

Posted By lord_sutekh on 02/20/2006 11:36 PM
I'm talking about the rules that state "Access points: 3 (ramp in front, doors on each side)" or something to that effect. Since the doors would be on one side, that means either you've broken the rules for a Land Raider or made something entirely different which isn't on the looted-vehicle list.

Allowing this is equivalent to hacking a hole in the top of a Falcon and saying that it now has a fire point.

From page 40 of Codex Space Marines:

Access Points:  A Land Raider has a front assault ramp and two side hatches.

I see nothing that requires the side hatches be on different sides of the vehicle.

If I ever go ahead and build an Ork army I'm going to include a LR with two left sponsons. I think it would be cool.

You can even put a sign hanging off the ramp: Attn Humies: Ta 'void assault, forma line to da right!
(remembering that to someone reading the sign, right would be the LAscannon side).

Don't forget to add an arrow.... as da orkses would need one to remind themselves which way right is.

 

The original poster made no mention of making such a mod. Work with what we're given, rather than your own additions outside the problem.

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! (poops in pants)

You are correct though, Marines can do that, but the Orks are the ones who can put the guns on one side, and the hatches on the other. Marines ALWAYS build their Land Raiders like the picture. In fact, the techincus wretchinus have a big poster of the box art right there in the grarage, so they don't forget how many sponsons go on each side. So there is a sponson on each side. Orks, however, can do whatever they want. In fact, the Mek boyz have a poster of Mr. T giving the thumbs up. If they want to put 5 sponsons on the side, then that's fair game. But if I EVER see a Marine player with two sponsons on one side, I will immediately force them to forfiet the game to me, and I will dock his sports and comp.

Remember, just like Yak's sig: You cannot cheat with modeling, you cannot cheat with modeling, you cannot cheat with modeling. . . NEVER!

Isn't that a double-standard, unsupported by the RAW? I mean, if it's still a LR in an Ork's hands, how is it not a LR in Marine hands?

It cannot be both ways.

Are you actually trying to refute what Honkey Bro is saying by using logic and/or common sense? Are you going to engage him in a debate of the minds to try to calmly figure out an equitable answer to the debate?

I pity you my friend. But, I also give you my blessing. Tread onward brave soul! You travel a path few have returned from!

Posted By lord_sutekh on 02/21/2006 4:34 PM
It cannot be both ways.

Why not?  Aside from being aesthetically displeasing, to the loyalist eye, it's been shown that there is nothing to stop loyalist marines from jamming both sponsoons on one side either. This isn't even an issue where you're splitting hairs for an advantage. The description says one ramp, two side exits, and two sponsoons. Not a word over which side those things all have to be on.  I wouldn't even call this modeling for an unfair advantage.  Constructing your models like this means you can fire both twinlinked Lascannons at one target, but it also means that an enemy can take shelter from your shooting along an entire flank of the vehicle. One two man unit can block two thirds of your access points.

LS, this isn't a personal attack, but why are you being such a kill joy about this?  The Ops idea sounds like some good, orky fun. If I saw it anywhere else, I'd expect a good fluff explanation about it, or else I'd spend the whole game going, 'well, that's weird.'

I was responding to this:

But if I EVER see a Marine player with two sponsons on one side, I will immediately force them to forfiet the game to me, and I will dock his sports and comp.

There's the double-standard I was speaking of.

Alos, this is YMDC, which is the home of all killjoyedness. It's a forum "of the rules, by the rules, and for the rules". Any joy it had dribbled out the many holes shot in GW's shoddy ruleset by micromanaging mindsets long ago.

There's the double-standard I was speaking of.

Alos, this is YMDC, which is the home of all killjoyedness. It's a forum "of the rules, by the rules, and for the rules". Any joy it had dribbled out the many holes shot in GW's shoddy ruleset by micromanaging mindsets long ago.

I would not double the score, I would ZERO it!!! Did you even read my post? The machinicustive ratchetical can only build a Land Raider one way, like you even said. Orks do not have boyz in the vehicilicus wheeleral, so they don't know how to build a Land Raider correctly. So they can do whatever they want. Just don't try to pull a fast one with your marines, and you might get through the game with some sport and comp.

I said nothing about doubling; read the post, whydon'tcha.

Allow me to repeat myself:

Isn't that a double-standard, unsupported by the RAW? I mean, if it's still a LR in an Ork's hands, how is it not a LR in Marine hands?

It cannot be both ways.

LS, I think the part you're missing is that Honkey Bro is SCREWING WITH YOU!

Ahh...

(proceeds to ignore the troll)

Troll? Where? Flat out, it doesn't matter if you have two sponsons on the same side. The RAW only says that the vehicle has two sponson weapons, it doesn't say one on each side.

Honkey Bro is hardly a troll.

In fact, he's my hero

He ain't my hero but he does speak the truth. Mostly. Sometimes. Well... when I agree with him.
Otherwise he's not speakin' the truth and maybe even going out of his way to annoy someone.
Bah! Honkey Bro defies definition and cannot be quantified. He is a primordial force from the dawn of creation sent here to do whatever it is that he does.
Or something.