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I've been looking through some sample Black templar lists on this site and others, and MSU seems to be a very predominant theme with BT. I understand the idea is to min/max a unit with lasplas, making you field more units with more upgrades on the field. However, due to such small unit size, is it a feasable way to organize a force? With very little fire your unit can be wiped out quick (unless in cover) so is it a better idea to take a few extra bodies per unit? MSU seems to be a great idea for going against a Mech army, but is it still effective vs most smaller elite forces, or horde armies?

Gorgarak wrote:I've been looking through some sample Black templar lists on this site and others, and MSU seems to be a very predominant theme with BT. I understand the idea is to min/max a unit with lasplas, making you field more units with more upgrades on the field. However, due to such small unit size, is it a feasable way to organize a force? With very little fire your unit can be wiped out quick (unless in cover) so is it a better idea to take a few extra bodies per unit? MSU seems to be a great idea for going against a Mech army, but is it still effective vs most smaller elite forces, or horde armies?

MSU is generally superior in most missions because A: it has many scoring units, B: it has more firepower, and C: losing a unit doesn't matter as much due to redundant units.

For 101 pts (IIRC) you get a lascannon and a plasma gun in a crusader squad. It has roughly the same weapons as a 190 pt vanilla marine list, minus the bolt guns and extra bodies. At the targets you are firing the plasma and lascannon at, do you even NEED bolt guns? Probably not, so it is probably a good thing you can skimp with BT on useless weapons and just take more squads. Other marine books can't even come close the the amount of good fire power that BT can, 605 pts buys you 25 bodies , 5 LCs 5 PG. For vanilla, 570 buys you 3 of each weapon, and only about 5 extra bodies.

Gorgarak wrote:I've been looking through some sample Black templar lists on this site and others, and MSU seems to be a very predominant theme with BT. I understand the idea is to min/max a unit with lasplas, making you field more units with more upgrades on the field. However, due to such small unit size, is it a feasable way to organize a force? With very little fire your unit can be wiped out quick (unless in cover) so is it a better idea to take a few extra bodies per unit? MSU seems to be a great idea for going against a Mech army, but is it still effective vs most smaller elite forces, or horde armies?

MSU is especially effective if used in conjunction with shooting-styled BT armies. It allows you to maximize the amount of firepower spread around the board, making the most of the 5-man special/heavy advantage. While these units won't be as effective in close combat, you really don't care as you're designed to shoot. They will provide a decide speed bump for you, should the need be there, because you've got redundant squads elsewhere that can pick up the slack. However, "Kill Them All" does hamper this a little bit in this particular archetype, but that is mitigated if you have a Commander in your force. Otherwise, all of notabot187's other points I agree with.

I don't think that MSU would work well for troops in CC-oriented armies, unless they are specifically built around it. Otherwise, I believe that MSU-Drop Pods are extremely powerful right now if you know how to play the army (which has a very high learning curve). In a nutshell, this allows you to spread around the board and manipulate what your opponent does, while retaining sufficient forces to achieve the mission objective.

Your opponent with the big 'ole blocks of troops can only be in so many places. When you've got twice as many units, with only a slight loss in effectiveness, your opponent is at a severe disadvantage.