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Okay I don't want to ruin anything for people that haven't listened to the Garro Audio-books, so....



So, thoughts/questions? I was just kind of excited going through this and wanted to know what everyone elses take on it was.

I think that's entirely possible, and would be supremely badass. Why does it make sense? Because all Grey Knights shed their previous name before becoming a Grey Knight. With that in mind, it could also be Loken. I got shivers just writing that.

If we assume that one of the aready known (Garro, Loken, Rubio, Varon) GKs is Janus, then we still need to find the four others. I can't wait to see who they are. Also, I'm really stoked to think that one of the humans that start the Inquisition could be one of the remembrancers from the earlier books. They'd seem to have an inquisitive nature, wouldn't they?

As for all GKs being pyskers... don't they all simply have the latent ability, with some being more powerful than others? The new GK Codex would seem to indicate so, as the normal squads use their combined psychic might to cast a single power.

Interesting food for thought, regardless.

The thing is, does Garro have to find the Lords and Administrators or just the Marines? Maybe the Sigilite will handle finding the 4 first Inquisitors. Its kind of up in the air. I am excited to see where the Garro books take us, but like I said, its really neat to see the little blurb of "good" fluff in the GK book.

UselessSage wrote:

Spoiler:

When I listened to Legion of One I went all rage face at how dumb Garro et.al. were, there was nothing for the "survivors" to eat after the virus bombing.

But Space Marines can exist with out food etc and go into a state of hibernation when need be. Or did I miss something from Legion of One that suggests otherwise?

OverwatchCNC wrote:

UselessSage wrote:

Spoiler:

When I listened to Legion of One I went all rage face at how dumb Garro et.al. were, there was nothing for the "survivors" to eat after the virus bombing.

But Space Marines can exist with out food etc and go into a state of hibernation when need be. Or did I miss something from Legion of One that suggests otherwise?

Ah right! I probably need to listen again more carefully...

Yeah that was kind of stupid. I was hoping that they would have put two and two together and figured that out.

XxRVNGRDxX wrote:Yeah that was kind of stupid. I was hoping that they would have put two and two together and figured that out.

Spoiler:

I figured that they were possessed by nurgle since there was no way they could've made it out of the bombing.

I ready to "call bull-sh*t" when Loken burst out all berzerker-ish, I thought he died. I could have swore he was stepped on by a Titan, but I am wrong quite often. He was such a great character, but I didn't really want to have him "brought back" in a dumb way.

actually how they brought loken back is actually quite well thought out. he surivived because the building collapsed on him.

Wow, I really need to listen to the audio-books. I just don't know what to do while I listen to them... maybe art? I guess that might not interfere, I assume its a bit different than a podcast.

Also, what is the difference between an "Audio Drama" and a regular "MP3"? The audio drama is $3 more, but I have no idea why.

Just listened to the excerpts, dang I need to buy these.

daedalus-templarius wrote:

Spoiler:

Wth Loken is alive?

Abbnet said this a while reading fan letters or something on youtube ages ago.. at which point I was horribly confused as to how and kind of expected it to be some complete bs mary-sue thing that involved stealing a traitor battle barge or something singlehandedly.
I am very happy to be proven wrong .

daedalus-templarius wrote:

Spoiler:

Wth Loken is alive?

Wow, I really need to listen to the audio-books. I just don't know what to do while I listen to them... maybe art? I guess that might not interfere, I assume its a bit different than a podcast.

Also, what is the difference between an "Audio Drama" and a regular "MP3"? The audio drama is $3 more, but I have no idea why.

Just listened to the excerpts, dang I need to buy these.

The newer Audio Dramas have quite a bit of production value to them. The Garro ones have particularly nice sound effects and are scored pretty well.

I usually listen to them while I'm painting or assembling models.

I just finished Garro: Legio of One right now and

As for the survivors

Janus is the Roman god of transition and beginnings so giving the name Janus to the first head of the Grey Knights makes sense.

Transiting from their old life to the new.

Didn't Mortarion make a big deal out of 'No psykers in the Death Guard'? That's the only problem I have with accepting Garro as a founding GK. I always assumed he'd be one of the first Inquisitors when Malcador recruited him.

Necroagogo wrote:Didn't Mortarion make a big deal out of 'No psykers in the Death Guard'?

And yet there was at least one who wasn't Garro. It was more of a "don't use your psychic powers in the Death Guard until I fall into despair, then go ahead and do it whenever you feel like it."

Necroagogo wrote:Didn't Mortarion make a big deal out of 'No psykers in the Death Guard'? That's the only problem I have with accepting Garro as a founding GK. I always assumed he'd be one of the first Inquisitors when Malcador recruited him.

Just because all GKs are psykers now doesn't mean they all were always.

I think Draigo joined up much later, like M40.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Just because all GKs are psykers now doesn't mean they all were always.

I think Draigo joined up much later, like M40.

Well, barring a few of the original founding members, all Grey Knights since have been psykers, it's a requirement. How would you use pretty much the entire GK arsenal if you weren't. You read the codex? It's on the first page describing the chapters founding.

It doesn't actually state when he joined. As I said, I would have liked them have left certain parts of Draigo's fluff out so I could formulate the afore mentioned theory.

I highly doubt Draigo is Garro. As much as we would like that, theres almost no way. A Space Marine lasting that long through so many wars is almost inconceivable. It states in the GK codex, that the first Supreme Grand Master was Janus, not Draigo. We do know that when you become a GK you change your name, but to change his name a 2nd time, thats a stretch. Now, Draigo COULD still hold an ancient grudge against Mortarion. Thats understandable. Many SM chapters hold long grudges, even against other loyal chapters. I'm not saying you're wrong, its just HIGHLY unlikely.

Also, Garro STILL carries Mortarions geneseed, not the Emperors. You can't just change out geneseed like that. Plus, I think that Garro's psychic abilities were just latent. He was a master swordsman for a reason. Maybe he was able to "anticipate" movements before they happened. Like a shortwave precognition.

XxRVNGRDxX wrote:I highly doubt Draigo is Garro. As much as we would like that, theres almost no way. A Space Marine lasting that long through so many wars is almost inconceivable. It states in the GK codex, that the first Supreme Grand Master was Janus, not Draigo. We do know that when you become a GK you change your name, but to change his name a 2nd time, thats a stretch. Now, Draigo COULD still hold an ancient grudge against Mortarion. Thats understandable. Many SM chapters hold long grudges, even against other loyal chapters. I'm not saying you're wrong, its just HIGHLY unlikely.

Also, Garro STILL carries Mortarions geneseed, not the Emperors. You can't just change out geneseed like that. Plus, I think that Garro's psychic abilities were just latent. He was a master swordsman for a reason. Maybe he was able to "anticipate" movements before they happened. Like a shortwave precognition.

It's so highly unlikely I'm not going to speculate fully that he is Draigo. I'm certain Janus and Draigo are different, but if they were the same, you could say that Garro and some of the other founders constantly change names and identities within the Chapter to remain secretive, like they're watching their sons, making sure nothing goes astray. They've never gained attention to themselves until now, when Draigo was trapped in the Warp. Garro would if he were alive, would still hold a grudge against any traitor marine, and particularly against his former Primarch and the Death Guard. Only through such a long life could a lone marine become so powerful. It's entirely possible for them to survive forever. All marines so far have died at some point, Dante is the oldest living, with Bjorn having survived for 10,000 years. Granted he's in a Dreadnought, but its been stated numerous times that Astartes are genetically immortal, but they have a high mortality rate as they live a life of constant war. Given a LOT of luck and being extremely skilful, any Marine could live forever, but their duty puts them in a position where death is nearly inevitable.

It's not fully known how the geneseed works, but you probably can't just swap out Geneseed to become another marine altogether. I could speculate that the founders were given the new Grey Knights geneseed and then were granted some of the Emperors psychic might, or their time in the Warp before the second founding enhanced latent powers they were given by the Emperor before his death, like the soul binding, but the Emperor did it to them himself rather than any painful process you go through in the current 40k area.
Like I said, I wont fully form a theory that connects Draigo and Garro, I've already given snipets. I would have liked to think so, but alas, its not to be. I will however convert myself a Garro, First Champion of the Grey Knights using my mates Chaos Lord base and my growing Grey Knights bits collection.

If there were 4 founders of the Inquisition and each one founded one branch I wonder what the fourth one was.

I really like where this conversation is going. Theories being thrown around that are really fun. I personally hope that Garro is Janus because that makes more sense to me. Not sure what my take on Draigo's past is yet. I too am curious of who founded the 4th branch of the Inquisition and what their specific niche is. Witch Hunters, Daemon Hunters, Xenos Hunters & ???

Odds are good Janus is Garro. Here's another: What happened to the other Eisenstein survivors stuck on Titan? I think there was 30 or 100 of them. I assumed they became Grey Knights but now I don't know. These are some veteran Death Guard spoilong for revenge: Don't waste 'em Malcador!

I haven't read much on GK fluff so far so can't comment on Garro 'becoming' anyone but I can't see why he would want to change his name for a start...

Garro is just awesome. I too want to know what happened to the remaining DG from the Eisenstein. I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned in the audio books/dramas (god knows what the difference is) so far.

I'm wondering if we will see a return of Saul Tarvitz and Nero Vipus. Lucius mentions that they were last seen heading to some kind of underground bunker. If Loken and Torgaddons slightly headless corpse survived above ground(ish), I wonder if they also survived.

I'm thinking that these marines might possibly be the unexpected allies mentioned in 'Collected Visions' who assisted the Space Wolves in their space battle with the Alpha Legion.

XxRVNGRDxX wrote:Plus, I think that Garro's psychic abilities were just latent. He was a master swordsman for a reason. Maybe he was able to "anticipate" movements before they happened. Like a shortwave precognition.

Indeed, there is a piece of writing in Flight of the Eisentein concerning Garro that is very similar to a piece of writing regards to a certain psyker in Descent of Angels. It got me thinking that Garro had latent psychic abilities after this.

I am not entirely convinced that the four mentioned members are the only operatives of the early Inquisition or Grey Knights. It's possible that there maybe more that were taken back to Luna for training or induction. I mean after all what, happens to Iacton Qurze? These four, possibly as psykers, could be the first Grey knights and the others the early Death Watch. I am not sure how Varren would feel about finding out he has psychic potential though

Varren is one of the original members of the 70 who were mentioned aboard the Eisenstein in the original fluff, good to see that they are keeping some of the older characters too.

All this talk makes me want to read FotE again It's still in my top 3 fav HH books...

NiallCampbell wrote:I haven't read much on GK fluff so far so can't comment on Garro 'becoming' anyone but I can't see why he would want to change his name for a start...

All Grey Knights change their name.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pilau Rice wrote:I'm wondering if we will see a return of Saul Tarvitz and Nero Vipus. Lucius mentions that they were last seen heading to some kind of underground bunker. If Loken and Torgaddons slightly headless corpse survived above ground(ish), I wonder if they also survived.

I'm thinking that these marines might possibly be the unexpected allies mentioned in 'Collected Visions' who assisted the Space Wolves in their space battle with the Alpha Legion.

XxRVNGRDxX wrote:Plus, I think that Garro's psychic abilities were just latent. He was a master swordsman for a reason. Maybe he was able to "anticipate" movements before they happened. Like a shortwave precognition.

Indeed, there is a piece of writing in Flight of the Eisentein concerning Garro that is very similar to a piece of writing regards to a certain psyker in Descent of Angels. It got me thinking that Garro had latent psychic abilities after this.

I am not entirely convinced that the four mentioned members are the only operatives of the early Inquisition or Grey Knights. It's possible that there maybe more that were taken back to Luna for training or induction. I mean after all what, happens to Iacton Qurze? These four, possibly as psykers, could be the first Grey knights and the others the early Death Watch. I am not sure how Varren would feel about finding out he has psychic potential though

Varren is one of the original members of the 70 who were mentioned aboard the Eisenstein in the original fluff, good to see that they are keeping some of the older characters too.

I don't think those four guys form the Inquisition. The GK 'dex mentions 8 Astartes form the Grey Knights and 4 humans form the Inquisition iirc. So I guess they pick up 4 more Asartes and they become the original Grand Masters eventually.

TBH, I prefer to think of Draigo as Garro now, Draigo's background is so damn horrible that the only reason I can justify it is by now thinking of him as Nathaniel Garro undercover.

Well he's not.