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I've got to preface this a bit, so bear with me.

Don't tell me what the rules say, because I can read just fine. I want to know how you and your group play it in your FLGS.

1) Do you play that a monstrous creature suddenly loses all of the benefits and drawbacks of being a huge monster because of a teleportation device he is carrying?

and 2) Does said teleportation device then magically allow him to get into a vehicle that, without carrying it, he could not fit into?

Again, no RAW or RAI please- just wanting to know how you actually play.

The Grey Knight Codex;

Where RAW'ers go to say MC's lose their status, Purifiers can never be troops, and stationary vehicles cannot be hit in CC on the first turn.

I love presenting this little loophole as a joke, but would never seriously play it this way.
Those who have recognised the loophole know perfectly well that it is a loophole and that it isn't really a friendly way to play the situation. It's entirely possible that it's an oversight and that models were intended to only have a single unit type, but it's also easily disregarded and played in a way that makes sense.

RAW are, I guess, a little hazy.

But common sense tells me that the personal teleporter does not make the DK any less huge and strong, two attributes that define a MC. As such, a Dreadknight with the personal teleporter is a monstrous creature that moves like jump infantry.

I can safely assume that the FAQ will agree with me on this one, but of course I'm always willing to take bets! :rubs hands together:

When I'm rules-laywering online and joining the ocean of piss, it is strictly a jump infantry.

When I actually play at my LGS, its all common sense.
So no, he retains MC status.

It is both, as the rules never tell you it stops being an MC

Well when you give a Hive Tyrant wings it's still a monstrous creature so I don't see why a Dreadknight would be any different.

I can't see anyone ever taking the interpretation that a dreadknight loses MC status seriously. It shocks me that there's even one person who voted for this option, let alone 7 at time of posting.

It's pretty clear what the rules should be interpreted as, just an oversight by GW.

Grr, So, I wasn't paying attention.

The subject line and the poll are opposite one another.

I voted the wrong way, I do not believe they lose MC status

Kyvik wrote:Grr, So, I wasn't paying attention.

The subject line and the poll are opposite one another.

I voted the wrong way, I do not believe they lose MC status

Same here.

Xca|iber wrote:

Kyvik wrote:Grr, So, I wasn't paying attention.

The subject line and the poll are opposite one another.

I voted the wrong way, I do not believe they lose MC status

Same here.

Ditto :(

I bet most of the people that said it was not a monstrous creture do not play grey knight or do not run a dreadknight in there army

but i can see why people would say its jump infantry. it's because they do not want to fight a beasty that can move 30'' than fire 2 heavy weapons( that can hurt )

I think the only people genuinely arguing in favour of losing MC status are those trying to counter people arguing that it being JI is enough to allow it to embark in a Storm Raven.

Deadshane1 wrote:The Grey Knight Codex;

Where RAW'ers go to say MC's lose their status, Purifiers can never be troops, and stationary vehicles cannot be hit in CC on the first turn.

Actually the RAW'ers argued the dread knight is JI and MC, and the only counter arguments brought forth were "AHAHAHAHA" or the like, that's why the thread got locked.


The dread knight as MC and JI works like a Hive Tyrant with wings 99% of the time, except for some Special Rule specifically targeting JI and not MCs, in which case the DK would be hit, the tyrant would not. Though I am not aware of one that exists.

The SW psychic power that targets specific types (not Jaws, another one) would hurt the DK with teleporter but not a high tyrant.

Nice catch, Tempest's Wrath is the name.

See, even in my new decrepit state I can remember things. Just not the name of them, and also apparently any tyrant I reference is stoned....

I don't have a problem with a dreadknight being transported by a Stormraven via the same grapple that a dreadnought would use. I have a problem with the Stormraven toting about 2 or more dreadknights if you count them only as Jump Infantry.

Yet that cannot happen, as the DK is a unit of one model

I have gotten confirmation.

Although I am new in dakkadakka, I wish to contribute.

I know most of you would be skeptical if I said this, but I wanted to make sure the fact for this rule is right for the Grey Knights.

This is an expensive purchase for me to make as I live in Malaysia and one Dread Knight is more than RM 100. Expensive for a plastic figurine, but I really like it.

I have called Games Workshop to clarify the status of the Dread Knight AND even emailed them. If I ever get a reply, I will screen cap and post it here.

The employee says the Dread Knight still retain's it's, I quote him, "It still retain's the Monstrous Creature status. It also moves as an Interceptor Squad."

He even says unit status never changes unless stated in the codex itself.

As said as before, I stay in Malaysia and we have no GW shops here. Only independent sellers, so we have to clarify things such as rules and pricing from UK on the phone at times.

I hope this helps. I will screen cap the email reply, IF they ever reply me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I reconfirmed again. The staff says, "It has both Monstrous Creature and Jump Infantry status."

This said, I ask if it could go to ground? He says no. It has both Monstrous Creature and Jump Infantry status. The Dread Knight follows the rules of BOTH Monstrous Creature and Jump Infantry status.

Sadly GW phones and emails are not a valid rules source. They are too error prone and unconfirmable (as in, their decisions are not published anywhere) to be taken as a reiliable source of rules.

You may argue all you wish, but I talk to a person. Regardless what you just said, I asked someone. Have you ask from a company representative?

I did not base on assumptions. I confirm with a source from the company. So for the time being, I will go by what the company says it should be, not what other people says. So until the FAQ comes out, I will be following the statement a GW employee gave to me an hour ago on the phone, TWICE.

Dread Knight follows the rules of both MC and JI if it takes the personal teleporter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I say negative on nosteratu1001 statement.

I have called GW a third time. Not to prove a point, but to reconfirm the validation of the Dread Knight status.

Dread Knight attains the MC status. It also gain JI status when taking the personal teleporter. There is nothing saying it loses any MC status.

To say GW emails and phonecalls are not a valid source is wrong. Where else do international players get confirmation on rules if they do not do so.

Could I please point you to the tenets of this forum? Theyre a good read.

The most pertinent one is:

YMDC tenets wrote:2. The only official sources of information are the current rulebooks and the Games Workshop FAQs. Emails from Askyourquestion@games-workshop.com are technically official, but they are easily spoofed and should not be relied on.

The calls you made are valid for you, and you alone. And, if youd read the thread you would see I actually agree with you - it is both an MC and JI - however your method is not valid for anyone but you.

You may as you like, but I have done something to contribute in this Dread Knight issue.

What did you contribute to help in inquiring the position of the Dread Knight status?

I am arguing on the status of the Dreadknight. Not on the how valid the source it.

FACT: I ask someone at GW to clarify.
FACT: If GK opponents start rule lawyering, a call to GW offers guidance and confirmation on rule stats. That is enough to shut any opponent up. I could also pas the phone to my opponent to talk to the GW rep.

If calling a GW rep does not help, should we just sit on an arguement which might have both or various parties disagree for a long time? OR we take what is told from the GW rep for the time being until a FAQ comes out.

For me, I'll take what info from the GW rep and use it until the new FAQ comes out. You all could argue until doosday. At the end of the day, a call to GW would be better than nothing to confirm on something for the time being.

Did you read the tenet at all? Seriously, it explains the position of this forum quite well.

As for your "FACTS"? You could be lying. Bluntly, I have no reason to trust you or your "call" to GW

As a lesson: I just called GW, and they said thet not only does the DK stop being MC when he takes the teleporter, that because he is only a single model unit with one teleporter he cant even use it! FACT!*

This forum is NOT a game in progress. You already HAVE methods to resolve issues in game, falling back on good old TMIR when needed. THis forum is here, in part, to debate the actual rules and what they actually say. Belligerance on your part because we're not accepting random-poster29s assertion that GW really told them something, in private, does not help this argument.

*the above is a lie, obviously. Proving a point.

wallacethe5 wrote:
For me, I'll take what info from the GW rep and use it until the new FAQ comes out. You all could argue until doosday. At the end of the day, a call to GW would be better than nothing to confirm on something for the time being.

Oh will you now? What if your "news" screwed over a part of my army, and I still felt that there were grounds for other interpretations of the disagreement? Should I just accept your "ruling"?

Hell. To. The. No.

The should simply post any calls/emails along with the corresponding answer every Friday on their GW page and call it rules database...

Deadshane1 wrote:The Grey Knight Codex;

Where RAW'ers go to say MC's lose their status, Purifiers can never be troops, and stationary vehicles cannot be hit in CC on the first turn.

I understand the first two, where does RAW come into play on that last one?

Valkyrie wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:The Grey Knight Codex;

Where RAW'ers go to say MC's lose their status, Purifiers can never be troops, and stationary vehicles cannot be hit in CC on the first turn.

I understand the first two, where does RAW come into play on that last one?

The rules for hitting vehicles in CC are dependent on how far it moved previously--with autohits for stationary or immobilized.

It has technically done no movement nor been stationary.

Or something like that. I did not really look that one up.

/shrug

kirsanth wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:The Grey Knight Codex;

Where RAW'ers go to say MC's lose their status, Purifiers can never be troops, and stationary vehicles cannot be hit in CC on the first turn.

I understand the first two, where does RAW come into play on that last one?

The rules for hitting vehicles in CC are dependent on how far it moved previously--with autohits for stationary or immobilized.

It has technically done no movement nor been stationary.

Or something like that. I did not really look that one up.

/shrug

off topic but you know what that makes me think of? some kind of warp illogical scenario where a vehicle has neither moved nor not moved the previous turn and yet this statement is true. Like..... WHAT!? Blessed be the emprah... every 40k battle is actually taking place in a dream and all events prior and after are just whisps in the warp!