Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello again Dakka! As usual I've been busy building lists and thinking of possible new, "next armies." I am not generally a fan of MEQ. That said, I have always been really intrigued by the Crimson Fists model. I love the idea of Pedro and Sternguard in an all drop pod list. I decided to give it a go, and see if I can build a solid list that I could possibly build someday as my one and only MEQ army; after that, it's RIGHT back to Xenos for me . Here's my first attempt, let me know what you all think!


HQ (300pts)

Chapter Master Pedro Kantor - 175

Master of the Forge - Combi-Melta, Thunderhammer - 140


Elites (825pts)

8x Sternguard Veteran - 5 CM/2 CP, 1x Sergeant CM, Drop Pod - 275
8x Sternguard Veteran - 5 CM/2 CP, 1x Sergeant CM, Drop Pod - 275
8x Sternguard Veteran - 5 CM/2 CP, 1x Sergeant CM, Drop Pod - 275


Troops (240pts)

4x Scout - 4x Shotgun, Sergeant - CM/PF, Melta Bombs - 115 (riding in LSS)
4x Scout - 4x Shotgun, Sergeant - CM/PF, Melta Bombs - 115 (riding in LSS)


Fast Attack (125pts)

Land Speeder Storm - Heavy Flamer - 65
Land Speeder Storm - Heavy Flamer - 65


Heavy Support (360pts)

Ironclad Dreadnought - SH (Meltagun), DCCW (Heavy Flamer), Drop Pod - 180
Ironclad Dreadnought - SH (Meltagun), DCCW (Heavy Flamer), Drop Pod - 180

===============================

1850 Total

Why do the scouts in the speeders have long range weapons? I would understand if the landspeeders were meant to be boxes to hide in, but the speeders scream close range. The sniper rifles and missile launcher are heavy weapons, so even when embarked on a vehicle, they can't shoot if the vehicle moves. What was your strategy regarding them??

Other then that, its 8 sternguard in each pod right?? 1 sergeant and 7 blokes? That was originally confusing.

Maybe take a look at what you have equipped on the Master of the Forge. I always like the look of a Thunder Hammer, even though its not wise point usage.

Hmm, good point about the scouts. Originally, I had them with Camo Cloaks, Sniper Rifles and Missile Launcher to camp on objectives, but decided to go with the LSS platform instead. What loadout would you recommend for the scouts riding in the LSS? More of an assaulty approach? Would you still take cloaks? I am thinking of taking both LSS's to Heavy Flamers as well.

And yes, 8 total sternguard including the sergeant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated the list in the first post.

I gave the MotF a TH so he's nice and happy.

Outfitted the scouts with Shotguns (should I be going with Pistol/CCW?).

could you not squeeze the sternguard up to 10 man units somehow? Then if they combat squad, you can take out more armour with combi-meltas and you get more scoring units too (more kill points though...). Or even go with 2 x 10 men squads and a 5 man (just one more marine to fit in then).

Artemo wrote:could you not squeeze the sternguard up to 10 man units somehow? Then if they combat squad, you can take out more armour with combi-meltas and you get more scoring units too (more kill points though...). Or even go with 2 x 10 men squads and a 5 man (just one more marine to fit in then).

The only other variation I could come up with was this:

HQ (300pts)

Chapter Master Pedro Kantor - 175

Master of the Forge - Combi-Melta, Thunderhammer - 140


Elites (825pts)

10x Sternguard Veteran - 7 CM/2 CP, 1x Sergeant CM, PF Drop Pod - 360
10x Sternguard Veteran - 7 CM/2 CP, 1x Sergeant CM, PF Drop Pod - 360



Troops (240pts)

5x Scout - 3x Sniper, 1x Missile Launcher, 5x Camo Cloak - Telios - 150
5x Scout - 4x CCW, Sergeant - PW/CCW, - 90 (riding in LSS)
5x Scout - 4x CCW, Sergeant - PW/CCW, - 90 (riding in LSS)


Fast Attack (125pts)

Land Speeder Storm - Heavy Flamer - 65
Land Speeder Storm - Heavy Flamer - 65


Heavy Support (360pts)

Ironclad Dreadnought - SH (Meltagun), DCCW (Heavy Flamer), Drop Pod - 180
Ironclad Dreadnought - SH (Meltagun), DCCW (Heavy Flamer), Drop Pod - 180

===============================

1845 Total

Can I ask, why MotF?

I actually really like the Telios squad, I've found it tremendously useful with my marines.

At 1500 I've run

Kanter

3 x 10 sternguard w/ 8 x combi-meltas, heavy flamer, power fist (360 ea.)

Telion squad as yours above

5 scouts, sniper rifles, heavy bolter, camo cloaks

with mixed success (mainly it depends on where the first two pods land and when the third does... oh and the opposition, I suppose, but they are an inconsiderable obstacle compared to my own lack of skill...)

I did have it with two ironclads and fewer sternguard originally (basically swapping one sternguard squad for two dreadnoughts and sending the dreadnoughts in first).

It's the sort of list I've found huge fun (especially when it works and your six combat squads mash 3 enemy vehicles and three squads turn one, and do the same on turn two, while Telion's squad knock out something else).

I also ran it once with just a marine captain so the sternguard could use combat tactics. that was a bit of a disaster, but I didn't really think it through very well as I was playing).

Yeah this list seems like the funnest MEQ list to me.

I run the MotF to take my Dreads as Heavies since all the Elite slots are taken by the Sternguard. Plus he's a decent shooter and decent in CC.

Now that I think about it, I'm questioning my own combi plasma. I'm thinking of instead taking all Combi-Melta, 1 Heavy Flamer like you have done. Not utilizing even one bolter without the ammunition has me on the fence a bit though....


Anyone have experience running scouts in LSS? I'm actually quite interested to hear what people think of that set up as I personally love LSS models, but if they really are useless/unneeded I'd consider taking them out to strengthen the list. They seem really good to me though: DS/Outflank/Scout, deny/hamper enemy DS's, potentially scare off low LD mobs with a scout assault (though pretty unlikely), flame out stuff in cover, contest/grab last minute objectives - lots of versatility there. Then again, it is a 10/10/10 OT skimmer - though if you're moving flat out while in the open and just generally keeping out of LOS I think they can have some staying power.

The way I see this is you're feeding all your troops and scoring units to the wolves. You've got the Pods which will come down cause some damage if you're lucky and probably die next turn or take a massive beating. You've got the two Storms which are weak transports but got close style Scouts, if you want the Scouts to get close they will probably die too meaning no more troops which means you will lose 2/3's of the games you will play :(

What you're best doing is giving the Scouts sniper rifles and let them camp on objectives then with the spare points increase the Sternguard to max size units.

mercer wrote:The way I see this is you're feeding all your troops and scoring units to the wolves. You've got the Pods which will come down cause some damage if you're lucky and probably die next turn or take a massive beating. You've got the two Storms which are weak transports but got close style Scouts, if you want the Scouts to get close they will probably die too meaning no more troops which means you will lose 2/3's of the games you will play :(

What you're best doing is giving the Scouts sniper rifles and let them camp on objectives then with the spare points increase the Sternguard to max size units.

You're saying people are going to just simply and easily wipe out 5 scoring units?

I tried removing the LSS's and giving the two units of scouts the single missile launcher, sniper rifle and camo cloaks but that still puts me over 100~ points after I make all 3 Sternguard squads 10x. I just have not figured out a way yet to fit it all in at 1850. Am I just better off shooting for 2 10 man sternguard and combat squadding them when they land? I really want 3 units of Sternguard because I want as many drop pods as possible, however it just can't be done at this level without either getting rid of the MotF which also means getting rid of the IC Dreads (which I obv don't want to do), or just having 3 8 man squads of Sternguard. Sure they won't be able to combat squad (which also means I'll have 1 scoring unit less than if i had 2 full squads of 10 that combat squad), but it also means I have 1 extra Drop Pod so potentially I have more mobility and durability in the 3 squads of 8.

Another option is to just remove one of the IC Dreads which will free up the needed 180 points to add 2 Sternguard to each squad. Not sure if that's the best plan as that's 1 less drop pod (though in this case it may not be a big deal because i'll have an even 4 drop pods to split up). Just removing the LSS's only nets me 120 points so I'm kind of stuck at this point. The -1x IC Dread option seems to be the most doable to me, though correct me if you feel i'm wrong.

What is the best way to run the LSS with the 2 scouts in it were I to run that? (Which I seem hell bent on doing hehe). Equip the LSS with Heavy Bolter or an Autocannon? Or maybe even a MultiMelta? Give the scouts a powerfist maybe? They obviously are not the best assault squad, and I certainly can't think of any other way to equip the scouts if they're going to be riding in an open topped transport other than to make them able to assault, get first swing and kill a few if they need to...though that's not a likely scenario as I don't see them assaulting much unless they feel like they can handle it. They can also always serve as another PowerFist platform when they roll up to make an assault near Pedro, granting them +1A.



This one's a doozy!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I thought about it today a while working and came up with an alternative approach: Use 2 full Sternguard Drop Pods with Pedro and instead of the MotF, run Vulkan for the TL capability. Drop one IC Dread, move the other one back up to take the Elite slot and give him 2 HF. I don't have the codex in front of me but this may work points-wise. Twin Linked HF/Flamers, +1A, scoring Sternguard - seems pretty nasty to me. I'd replace the two Combi-Plasmas with Combi Flamers, and remove 2 Combi Melta from each Squad and give them 2 Heavy Flamers. That's 4 Templates twin linked from the Sternguard, 2 HF from the Dread and 2 HF from the Speeders.

Though I see inherent flaws with this approach - one less scary AV 13 on the board for the OPP to deal with. Something tells me the MotF + 2 IC Dreads is the better choice here but figured i'd throw this idea out for consideration too.

Any thoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heh, I love chain-replying to my own post.

Here's my latest iteration of the list. I feel it's very solid - I use the LSS's to alpha strike and pop some AT, I have a HF on the second LSS as an option to either run into some infantry blobs that I want to tie up after I flame and possibly even make use of the Cerberus Launchers, outflank and contest last minute objectives, harass objective holders in cover, and if need be rush the melee scouts into an already existing combat or an impending assault for support. The sniper unit will kick back on an objective and snipe away with Snipers and ML. I've max'd the Sternguard squads too and reduced it to 2 squads; allowing for combat squadding for each. Everything else is quite self-explanatory.

This is what I feel is the most solid iteration so far. Please let me know what you think! Would love to hear some more feedback.

HQ (300pts)

Chapter Master Pedro Kantor - 175

Master of the Forge - CM, PW - 125


Elites (730pts)

10x Sternguard - 7xCM/2xCP; Sergeant w/ CM, PF, Melta Bombs; Drop Pod - 360

10x Sternguard - 7xCM/2xCP; Sergeant w/ CM, PF, Melta Bombs; Drop Pod - 360


Troops (330pts)


4x Scout - 4x CCW; Sergeant w/ BP, PF - 100

4x Scout - 4x CCW; Sergeant w/ BP, PF - 100

4x Scout - 4x Camo Cloaks, ML, 4x Sniper; Sergeant w/ Melta Bombs - 105


Fast Attack (125pts)

Land Speeder Storm - MM - 65

Land Speeder Storm - Heavy Flamer - 60


Heavy Support (390pts)

Ironclad Dreadnought - DCCW w/ HF; SH w/ HF; Drop Pod w/ Locator Beacon - 195

Ironclad Dreadnought - DCCW w/ HF; SH w/ HF; Drop Pod w/ Locator Beacon - 195

Yes I am and the reason I've already mentioned is because you're feeding them all to the wolves. Think about it for a bit, your Pods come down those Sternguard might pop a tank or kill some infantry then next turn they will get shot up as only 8 in a unit and no cover. If you focus on a single unit at a time you could probably wipe out one unit a turn depending what army you're up against. The Scouts have Speeders for transport, but looks like alpha strike close combat either way they're designed for combat and there's only 5 of them - get them into combat they'll die in time plus only a small unit. Now your troop choices are all dead and you can't win objective games so as I mentioned drop the Speeders and let the Scouts camp it up and claim some objectives.

In my latest iteration, I've got 3 troop choices + the 2 sternguard scoring units which can combat squad. I plan on using at least one of my LSS's to make an alpha strike with, possibly with the other one too if there are enough targets to throw a PF at. Sure they'll likely die, but they just destroyed a Leman Russ or a Transport or maybe even immobilized a LR. I have one unit of Sniper scouts now as well to camp back on an objective. The other LSS with the HF I can use in either the alpha strike, or outflank with him and harass objectives mid-late game. Meanwhile I always have that one troop of Sniper scouts just plinking away from a distant objective.

The sternguard are very susceptible to dying, I understand this. But when you have 2 IC Dreads, and 2 units of sternguard basically in your face, that can be a hard decision to make as an opponent. Plus the Sternguard are no slouch in CC with Pedro and a PF in each squad, not to mention the MotF up there as well.

I am going to playtest this latest list and I'll report back with some results and findings.

Meanwhile, I'd love to hear some more opinions/strategies/tactics that go along with this list, and greatly appreciate the ones already offered here.

You might destroy a Leman Russ, not 100% as you have 1/3 of chance to take it out. You need to be lucky to tackle a Land Raider needing 6+ to glance and 6+ to immobilise.

That's only four units coming down, maybe six if you combat squad.

mercer wrote:You might destroy a Leman Russ, not 100% as you have 1/3 of chance to take it out. You need to be lucky to tackle a Land Raider needing 6+ to glance and 6+ to immobilise.

That's only four units coming down, maybe six if you combat squad.

BS 4 MM on the LSS + 2x PF auto hits seems like a good enough shot to pop a LR...though I still need to do some testing to see how it will all work. The other option I've been considering is a third IC Dread - Possibly third small Sternguard squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the subject too, I'm thinking about moving the Melta Bombs around from the Sternguard to the Assault/Alpha Strike Scout team in case they don't feel confident enough to put a fist into a LR. Meltabombs auto-hitting would certainly do the trick - in which case I might be able to forego the PF's on the Sergeants and maybe just go with PW's (Maybe not though). Will update the list later.

You can't use Pedro and Vulkan all together profiting from both the Chapter Tactics.

Of course you'll can field them if you want but or you'll have the Sternguards as scoring units or you'll have all the flamers/-melta weapons TL.

I will only add these following lists as example to the discussion:

HQ - Pedro Kantor. 175
EL - 10x Sternguards - 5x Combi-melta - 5x Combi-plasma - Drop Pod. 335 (<-- Pedro's unit)
EL - 10x Sternguards - PF - 5x Combi-melta - 4x Combi-plasma - 1x HF - Drop Pod. 365
EL - 10x Sternguards - PF - 5x Combi-melta - 4x Combi-plasma - 1x HF - Drop Pod. 365
TR - 5x Scouts - 5x Camo Cloacks - 4x Snipers - ML. 100
TR - 5x Scouts - 5x Camo Cloacks - 4x Snipers - ML. 100
FA - Land Speeder - HF - MM. 70
FA - Land Speeder - HF - MM. 70
HV - Thunderfire Cannon - Drop Pod. 135
HV - Thunderfire Cannon - Drop Pod. 135
Tot. 1850

Or

HQ - Pedro Kantor. 175
HQ - Librarian - Null Zone & The Avenger. 100
EL - 10x Sternguards - 5x Combi-meltas - 5x Combi-plasma - Drop Pod. 335 (HQ's unit)
EL - 10x Sternguards - PF - 5x Combi-meltas - 5x Combi-plasma - Drop Pod. 360
EL - 10x Sternguards - PF - 5x Combi-meltas - 5x Combi-plasma - Drop Pod. 360
TR - 10x Tactical Marines - Serg. w/ PW/Combi-flamer - Flamer - ML - Drop Pod. 235
TR - 5x Scouts - Camo Cloacks - 3x Snipers - ML - Serg. Telion. 150
HV - Thunderfire Cannon - Drop Pod. 135
Still Tot. 1850

Erudog wrote:

mercer wrote:You might destroy a Leman Russ, not 100% as you have 1/3 of chance to take it out. You need to be lucky to tackle a Land Raider needing 6+ to glance and 6+ to immobilise.

That's only four units coming down, maybe six if you combat squad.

BS 4 MM on the LSS + 2x PF auto hits seems like a good enough shot to pop a LR...though I still need to do some testing to see how it will all work. The other option I've been considering is a third IC Dread - Possibly third small Sternguard squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the subject too, I'm thinking about moving the Melta Bombs around from the Sternguard to the Assault/Alpha Strike Scout team in case they don't feel confident enough to put a fist into a LR. Meltabombs auto-hitting would certainly do the trick - in which case I might be able to forego the PF's on the Sergeants and maybe just go with PW's (Maybe not though). Will update the list later.

It's BS3 on the Storm and power fists need 6+ to glance, you won't pop it. Melta bombs on the other hand are a different story.

Alright, I've *VERY* reluctantly decided to drop the Assault Scouts w/ LSS. I still would consider including them in a higher point value version of this list. For now, I've beefed up the armor and initial threat in the list and I think it is looking to be an extremely solid list indeed. Feedback as always is appreciated (thanks again to those who have contributed so far - mercer you always seem to have an interest in the same type of lists as me as I hear a lot of constructive criticism from you Good stuff buddy).

HQ (300pts)

Chapter Master Pedro Kantor - 175

Master of the Forge - Digital Weapons, PW - 125


Elites (720pts)

10x Sternguard - 4xCM/5xCP; Sergeant w/ CM, PF; Drop Pod - 360

10x Sternguard - 4xCM/5xCP; Sergeant w/ CM, PF; Drop Pod - 360


Troops (240pts)

4x Scout - 4x Camo Cloaks, ML, 4x Sniper; Sergeant w/ Meltabombs - 105

4x Scout - ML, 3x Sniper; Telion - 135


Heavy Support (585pts)

Ironclad Dreadnought - DCCW w/ HF; SH w/ Melta; Drop Pod w/ Locator Beacon - 190

Ironclad Dreadnought - DCCW w/ HF; SH w/ Melta; Drop Pod w/ Locator Beacon - 190

Ironclad Dreadnought - DCCW w/ HF; SH w/ Melta; Ironclad Assault Launchers; Drop Pod w/ Locator Beacon - 205

Total 1845

I am curious why your Motf is geared up for close combat when really is meant for a support role.

I think the list is coming together now.

Since he's attached to a unit, I figured I'd make use of his PF attack + PW attacks and give him his single wound reroll per combat. I don't see situations where I can detach him and use him in a different way, except if I detached him and used a conversion beamer or something *though that seems pointless, no?* What would you suggest?

I'd go conversion beamer but I see your point about combat. Just make sure you're not against power weaps or else he is dead.

Hmm yeah i see your point about that. Since he's an IC attached to a unit of only 10 or even 5 when they CS, he can easily get into b2b with a PW....

Maybe he would be better off with a conversion beamer for the long range blasts. Some more testing is required.

Just want to report back about some testing I've done: This list is pretty solid. I have played 3 games with it so far; won 2 and I'm in the middle of one game with Kabalite/Wych DE, but it's quite close! I have since gotten rid of the Digital Weapons on the MotF and given a second Dreadnaught Assault Launchers as I feel they will need it more often than the protected MotF getting an extra reroll to wound.

More testing will be done, but I am quite fond of this list and may end up building it! Thanks again to those who contributed but to be honest, I'm a feedback monger. I would love to hear more opinions for even expanding the army to 2000/2500. I have thought of one option to expand: Drop Pod Honor Guard. Yeah yeah, expensive unit, kind of bad but i feel like with a drop pod list, giving a bunch of these guys Auxilliary Launchers can make them super scary from a drop pod. Assault them? Sure...they'll take on a fight....or they'll bring it to you if you don't bring it to them. A squad full of Power Weapons and 2 different weapons that fire per round essentially....they seem like they would be a good fit in this list.

I still haven't given up the idea of LSS storms either for expansion...I may throw a couple in there as I climb the points ladder.

What load out did you try on the Motf?

I decided to keep him cheap as possible. His only purpose is to make the Dreads heavy and to stick a power weapon in the unit he's in. If it so works out that I can drop pod next to an immo/wd dread I can repair the dread the same turn usually as it's easy to put him into b2b from a drop pod.

The conversion beamer idea doesn't work for me because he can only do it alone while attached to no squads. While I'm not dismissing the idea to use him purely for a CB and taking away the Power Weapon..I've decided just not to spend too much on him and just make him a platform for some power weapon hits out of the squad. Granted, the CB is only 5 points more, so it's still a possibility.

I have to admit, better than I thought you had described it as! Looks pretty solid, I like your clustering methods. It's good for that alpha strike potential. The Beamer wont be useful in this list. You'll be too close to get a decent shot with it most of the time. I have to say, I hate scouts. But, they're cheap. We'll have to duke it out sometime.

Have you considered going with 2 full squads of sterns and a 5 man mini dev squad with 2 LC?

If you go that route, you can also give the MotF a conversion beamer and park him with the minidev. That also lets you take just 2 squads of scouts rather than 3.

Hey Som,

Well, I do have 2 full squads of Stern and the Dev's I did consider.

However, I do still only have 2 units of Scouts... *maybe you mean the IC Dreads?*

The problem with the Dev's is I'd have to get rid of one of the Dreads, and I'm not sure that would be in my best interest...
The dreads seem to provide some much needed armor in the list.

I'm still considering this list...it looks like it would be damn fun to build/paint...yet the evil, spikey darkness still calls out to me as well...