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Been working on my ad mech army (IG) again, and I picked up 3 dreadknights to model up as new units.

With a little modeling (mainly extending the torso a bit to get it into the right size for a knight, swapping out the weapon on the left arm, replacing the right are with a chainsword/power lance, and converting a new headpiece to replace the grey knight pilot) you can make a really nice Imperial Knight. (No they are not technically titans as they have a single pilot.)

And I got to thinking about the stats. Now per Mechanicum the Knights weapons really were not strong enough to reliably take out a Warhounds void shields and such, so their main weapon I feel would be closer to a standard tank weapon vs. a superheavy/titan killer. Now taking this into mind I started working up some stats for them. From the descriptions I personally think a shielded walker along the lines of a Leman Russ stat wise would work... something like this.

Imperial Knight ............................. 170 points per model

WS.....4
BS......4
S........6
front...13
side....13
rear....11
I........3
A.......2

Composition: Vehicle squadron of 1-3 Imperial Knights

Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker)

Wargear:
Heavy Bolter
Dreadnaught CCW
Battle Cannon
Knight shield (Always provides a 4+ cover save)

Options:
*Any model may replace its heavy bolter for:
- Heavy flamer.............................................free
- Missile launcher..........................................10 points per model
- Lascannon................................................15 points per model
*Any model may replace its battle cannon for:
- Exterminator autocannon............................free
- Vanquisher battle cannon............................5 points per model
- Eradicator nova or Demolisher seige cannon...10 points per model
- Punisher gatling cannon..............................25 points per model
- Executioner plasma cannon.........................35 points per model
*Any model may take any of the following:
- Searchlight...............................................1 point per model
- Hunter-killer missile....................................10 points per model
- Extra armor..............................................15 points per model
*The entire squadron may take:
- Camo netting...........................................20 points per model


Wasn't sure if using the power field rules as above or just an invuln save of 5+ before working out the armor pen on a hit would work better.
Knight shield = Each hit scored against the vehicle from a distance of 6" or more instead hit the power field. Close combat attacks and ranged attacks from a distance less than 6", come from inside the field and therefor are not stopped at all. Power fields are the equivelent of Armor 12. Each glancing or penetrating hit scored against the fields causes one field to collapse. After all of the fields have collapsed, further hits are resolved against the vehicle's real Armor Value, as normal.


I based the point cost off compairing an equivelently equiped Nemesis Dreadknight to the Leman Russ variants to find a decent cost. At 170 (before upgrading weapons) it makes for one of the most expensive IG units per model, (Which is appropriate) but still making them balanced versus what they can do. Note they cost more and lack some of the additional weapons that can be added of the Leman Russ, in exchange for being a walker with better pilots that have low level shields.

I would really like any opinions on what people think of this, and any reccomendations on how to make it work better.

sounds pretty kool bro, but how would the battle cannon be modelled? dont have it coming out of its stomach or anything.

tedstea wrote:sounds pretty kool bro, but how would the battle cannon be modelled? dont have it coming out of its stomach or anything.

Its an arm I think


Seems..interesting. Its like a defiler with less attacks but more armor

Battle cannon would be modeled on the left arm, use the base build from the dreadknight for the psycannon that goes on the back of the left wrist and build it out to a longer barrel. (I am going to be testing using the weapons from the leman russ kit to build it out this weekend actually.)

There have been a couple of other modelers that have done the same thing on modding the dreadknights lately on the boards and it ends up looking really good.

And I think I have decided to have the power fields just be a 4+ cover save as that seems to fit with the fluff the best.

But as always any feedback is welcome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kenshin620 wrote:

tedstea wrote:sounds pretty kool bro, but how would the battle cannon be modelled? dont have it coming out of its stomach or anything.

Its an arm I think


Seems..interesting. Its like a defiler with less attacks but more armor

I was purposely makiing sure it had fewer attacks as the Knights were always focussed on their main cannon in the fluff. Course they were ganging up on actual titans or fighting other knights normally which meant you needed to focus on getting those shields down.

I hope that I balanced the points right on it though. Any thoughts?

This... actually isn't bad. My advice is to go with the 5+ over giving it what is effectively a void shield. That might be too powerful for non-apoc. I would also step down the armor a bit. Walkers shouldn't have 14 front armor. Nothing could kill it in close combat. I think either 12/12/11 or 13/12/10 would be more appropriate. Ironclads have 13 front armor and they're insane to have to fight for anything less than something with a chainfist.

I like it, very interesting. I have to agree about dropping the front armor down to 13, still tough but possible to damage.

I just finished a conversion myself of a Knight and I will admit I like these rules you came up with. Do you have any pics of your conversion? I agree with everyone else that the front armor should be reduced to 13, Ironclads and such are a bear to handle as is in CC. But everything else I see looks great.

Void sheild method definetly.
if you read the fluff then youll see that the knights are in essence mini titans.
infact in a book i read recently(cant remember title) there was several accounts of knights in combat and they did actually have voids.
the only difference from the titans voids was that they couldnt regenerate them on their own-their generators just couldnt manage it.
Ide give them 2 voids but wouldnt let them regen them like titans can.
an option for more voids would be nice and some structure points(about 2) would fit in with the fluff but apart from that these rules are great.

master of ordinance wrote:Void sheild method definetly.
if you read the fluff then youll see that the knights are in essence mini titans.
infact in a book i read recently(cant remember title) there was several accounts of knights in combat and they did actually have voids.
the only difference from the titans voids was that they couldnt regenerate them on their own-their generators just couldnt manage it.
Ide give them 2 voids but wouldnt let them regen them like titans can.
an option for more voids would be nice and some structure points(about 2) would fit in with the fluff but apart from that these rules are great.

That would be from the book Mechanicum, which is what I was basing the stats from actually. I was trying to avoid going structure points on them (and they would have power fields in apoc, as the difference between voids and power fields by the rules is power fields do not regenerate in combat.) as I was trying to stat them as a normal heavy choice vs. a super heavy choice.

In the book they were described as having strong cannons (similiar to full tanks), shields, and being much weaker than a warhound. (Taking several to take out one warhound.) To make them an apoc. unit they would have to go at least 2 structure points and 1 power field... which is barely weaker than a warhound. (Which has 3 structure and 2 voids.) Compairing a Knight to a Warhound is the equivelent of compairing a Warhound to a Warlord... and a Warlord has 3 times the structure and voids of a Warhound... so by that comparrison, a Knight should not have no structure points (so a normal vehicle) and shields of some kind.

Now I did lower down the armor to 13 on the front, but I am leery on lowering it. All of the titans always have front armor 14, and it is a mini version of a titan after all... tougher than even the toughest dreadnaught by the description. (And a landraider has armor 14 on all sides, and Leman Russ even have a 14 armor on the front.)
Perhaps keep the 14/13/12 armor but up the point cost on them somewhat? (Around 200 per?) This would get them up to warhound style armor ratings but with having one third of the structure points, and making a squad of 3 almost to the same point value as a warhound.

For the shields, using a 4+ cover seems best. Shows not only they are powerful but also makes the save not effect them in close combat which fits with the void/power shields.

Again, I love feedback and appreciate all of your inputs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Was talking with some other people and they pointed out the shadow field of the dark eldar may be a better way to go on the stats. It would up the point cost on them, and would work better with the higher armor value too.

This combination would lead to people fighting them using massed small arms fire followed heavy weapons as the main tactic to take them down. Or other dreads/titans taking them in CC. Most walker with a dreadnaught close combat weapon gets a glancing hit or better on a 4+. This seems to work with the way they are portrayed in the books.

Imperial Knight ............................. 200 points per model

WS.....4
BS......4
S........6
front...14
side....13
rear....12
I........3
A.......2

Composition: Vehicle squadron of 1-3 Imperial Knights

Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker)

Wargear:
Heavy Bolter
Dreadnaught CCW
Battle Cannon
Knight shield (A knight shield provides a +2 invulnerable save, but if the save is ever failed, the shield is destroyed altogether. Roll separate dice, one by one, to save each wound inflicted upon the knight to see if the shield shorts out. Save cannot be used vs. CC attacks.)

Options:
*Any model may replace its heavy bolter for:
- Heavy flamer.............................................free
- Missile launcher..........................................10 points per model
- Lascannon................................................15 points per model
*Any model may replace its battle cannon for:
- Exterminator autocannon............................free
- Vanquisher battle cannon............................5 points per model
- Eradicator nova or Demolisher seige cannon...10 points per model
- Punisher gatling cannon..............................25 points per model
- Executioner plasma cannon.........................35 points per model
*Any model may take any of the following:
- Searchlight...............................................1 point per model
- Hunter-killer missile....................................10 points per model
- Extra armor..............................................15 points per model
*The entire squadron may take:
- Camo netting...........................................20 points per model


The changes would make it more in line with being 1/3 the power and cost of a Warhound titan... So a full squadron would run you 600+ points, and possibly up to 888 points for the squadron. Making it one of the most expensive heavy weapon choices, though a fully equiped Leman Russ Executioner still is just a little more expensive than the a fully equiped knight titan.

I think these are great.
However i think maybe lose the structure points and have 1 void sheild.
also make them fast walkers.
allow options for dual power lance arms.
and this rule:
Knightly charge
on the turn that they charge all knights armed with powerlances double their strength and gain +2 inishative.
if the assaulted unit is not a vehcle MC or warmachine then they must take a leadership test or fall back 2d6" even if combat is a draw.
if they win then they dont have to fall back.

as a foot note one of the staff members at my local GW store says there are already official stats for titan-knights

master of ordinance wrote:as a foot note one of the staff members at my local GW store says there are already official stats for titan-knights

Only thing I know is Lords of Battle

Also there are such things as fast walkers?