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"I have lived with the prospect of an early death for the last 49 years. I'm not afraid of death, but I'm in no hurry to die. I have so much I want to do first," he told the newspaper.

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven of afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people who are afraid of the dark."

Seen here: http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/05/16/6654463-hawking-there-is-no-heaven?GT1=43001

I personally disagree with him. He may be "smarter" than me, but even he doesn't know everything.

The brain is hardware, we are software.

Software doesn't cease to exist when the hard disk fails, it merely cease to operate on that particular hard disk.

Orlanth wrote:The brain is hardware, we are software.

Software doesn't cease to exist when the hard disk fails, it merely cease to operate on that particular hard disk.

That's better than anything I could have come up with, so lets go with that.

How would you even go about proving/disproving the existance of Heaven, anyway?

I had a surprisingly long reply typed out but I decided against posting it.

There are so many aspects of this topic that are way too touchy for my blunt and tactless take on things.

Slarg232 wrote:How would you even go about proving/disproving the existance of Heaven, anyway?

Simple. We invent the ability, to bring back the dead. Kill someone, and bring them back five years later. That should be enough.

The worst that could happen is a zombie apocalypse.

It's just not possible to prove there's no heaven, just like it's not possible to prove there is. Well there's several ways, like throwing yourself off the empire state building, but it's not like you'll be able to tell anyone what came next...

LordofHats wrote:
The BEST that could happen is a zombie apocalypse.

Fixed your typo!

Science is one thing, but Human mind is something very different. I don't think that everything ends with the dark, then how the hell did we become us in the beginning?

We start with something, and we end with something for sure. That's my philosophy...
I believe that when we die and go trough tunnel ( we all know the tunnel exist ), we just reaper in another body and start all over against ( witch is kind of boring in the first 20 years with school and everything... ).

Slarg232 wrote:

How would you even go about proving/disproving the existance of Heaven, anyway?

I dont. I gave my opinion, not a stated fact.

I am suprised that Hawking would write something like that. After his years of struggling to exist through force of will it seems odd that he would discount spirituality.

As intellectual as SH is, he apparently hasn't got tolerance figured out, and obviously can't take the fact that people (a very large number at that, albeit in different forms) have different opinions than he does.

He's managed to make a blanket statement about almost every major religion (those that believe in some form of afterlife) that labels them as people who tell fairy tales and are afraid of the dark; congratulations Hawking, you've managed to insult a large percentage of the Earth's population with one dickish statement.

He's not the first, and won't be the last, but for someone who is supposed to be 'smart', he really lacks tact and tolerance of the beliefs of others.

Avatar 720 wrote:As intellectual as SH is, he apparently hasn't got tolerance figured out, and obviously can't take the fact that people (a very large number at that, albeit in different forms) have different opinions than he does.

I dont think thats quite fair. He has been silent on this issue for a long time, unlike others. This is not the first atheistic comment he has made, he considers the non existence of God to be plausible and likely from within his own paradigm and he clearly he states it as such. No absolutes or in his commentaries, or the veiled absolutes masked as maybes as we get from Dawkins. I am comfortable with Hawking's opinion, it is no in-the-face challenge or message of intolerance.


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snurl wrote:I am suprised that Hawking would write something like that. After his years of struggling to exist through force of will it seems odd that he would discount spirituality.

Actually Hawking has had to deal with skewed dice rolls for a long time, someone gave him Int:18 Con:3, if it was God and it happened to me, I would be pissed off too.

I think it's pretty safe to saw Hawking understands the natural world in a far deeper way than any of us.

But that doesn't give him any greater insight into the supernatural world, you know, with the supernatural world being beyond the natural world, pretty much by definition.


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Avatar 720 wrote:As intellectual as SH is, he apparently hasn't got tolerance figured out, and obviously can't take the fact that people (a very large number at that, albeit in different forms) have different opinions than he does.

He's managed to make a blanket statement about almost every major religion (those that believe in some form of afterlife) that labels them as people who tell fairy tales and are afraid of the dark; congratulations Hawking, you've managed to insult a large percentage of the Earth's population with one dickish statement.

He's not the first, and won't be the last, but for someone who is supposed to be 'smart', he really lacks tact and tolerance of the beliefs of others.

Exactly what are atheists allowed to say about their beliefs, that won't come across as intolerant?

Ill rank that up there with alot of what Bill Maher (sp?) says. Hes a smart guy, but a total donkey-cave if you disagree with him. Nothing annoys me more then people that insult others beliefs. Believe in what you want, worship what you want, thats fine with me, because it really doesnt effect me in the least. But, people that bash on others beliefs just piss me off.

I don't think he's bashing on others' beliefs.

He was asked about his stance on religion. He gave it. That doesn't mean he necessarily believes that anyone who has faith is an idiot or "afraid of the dark".

that is a fairy story for people who are afraid of the dark

Pretty insulting there

sebster wrote:I think it's pretty safe to saw Hawking understands the natural world in a far deeper way than any of us.

But that doesn't give him any greater insight into the supernatural world, you know, with the supernatural world being beyond the natural world, pretty much by definition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Avatar 720 wrote:As intellectual as SH is, he apparently hasn't got tolerance figured out, and obviously can't take the fact that people (a very large number at that, albeit in different forms) have different opinions than he does.

He's managed to make a blanket statement about almost every major religion (those that believe in some form of afterlife) that labels them as people who tell fairy tales and are afraid of the dark; congratulations Hawking, you've managed to insult a large percentage of the Earth's population with one dickish statement.

He's not the first, and won't be the last, but for someone who is supposed to be 'smart', he really lacks tact and tolerance of the beliefs of others.

Exactly what are atheists allowed to say about their beliefs, that won't come across as intolerant?

I was wondering the same thing myself Sebs, There does seem to be a bit of a double standard concerning religious discusion in that many see any statement casting "doubt" at religion as somehow "intolerant"...
Yet,in many cases religion itself is not held to these same standards of "tolerance".

Meh, for the record I don't see how Hawkins ( or anyone else) can prove or disprove the existance of "heaven".

Whatever. I'm more inclined to believe that people are just looking for an excuse to be offended because a famous person said something they don't agree with.

It's almost like *gasp* people have different opinions!

Opinions are fine, and Im not one to jump on the bandwagon of being offended. He could of easily said, IMO there is nothing after we die. No heaven, no pearly gates, nothing. That isnt insulting in the least. What he did say was a jab in the ribs

KingCracker wrote:Opinions are fine, and Im not one to jump on the bandwagon of being offended. He could of easily said, IMO there is nothing after we die. No heaven, no pearly gates, nothing. That isnt insulting in the least. What he did say was a jab in the ribs

But that's just it KC..it's ALL just opinion...and outside of common courtesy..neither side deserves prefferential treatment.

Avatar 720 wrote:

He's managed to make a blanket statement about almost every major religion (those that believe in some form of afterlife) that labels them as people who tell fairy tales and are afraid of the dark; congratulations Hawking, you've managed to insult a large percentage of the Earth's population with one dickish statement.

Now be a good Christian and forgive him...

If Heaven doesn't exist I'm not going there so I'm not too fussed...
I can see how others would be annoyed at the possibility.

FITZZ wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Opinions are fine, and Im not one to jump on the bandwagon of being offended. He could of easily said, IMO there is nothing after we die. No heaven, no pearly gates, nothing. That isnt insulting in the least. What he did say was a jab in the ribs

But that's just it KC..it's ALL just opinion...and outside of common courtesy..neither side deserves prefferential treatment.

I guess you make a valid point. I was always raised to be respectful of other peoples beliefs, but thats me being courteous. And I forget it does go both ways

KingCracker wrote:Opinions are fine, and Im not one to jump on the bandwagon of being offended. He could of easily said, IMO there is nothing after we die. No heaven, no pearly gates, nothing. That isnt insulting in the least. What he did say was a jab in the ribs

But that really is what most atheists believe.

He might have used more neutral language, and said something like "I believe that most religious people believe in an afterlife because they are afraid of the thought of nothingness after death". Is that any less "offensive", at the end of the day?

I agree with him... it's nothing groundbreaking there.

Think: What was it like before you were born? Nothing. After you die, probably the same thing. There is no evidence to support the existance of an afterlife, and thus, no reason to believe in one.

"You can't disprove Heaven/Hell/God" is not a good enough argument. It's just like saying "you can't disprove Santa Claus." The burden of proof lies on the person raising the argument.

Well crap, no long boring discussions about theoretical physics in Heaven. Oh well, hope he likes things well done!

I love the dark FWIW.

CT GAMER wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:

He's managed to make a blanket statement about almost every major religion (those that believe in some form of afterlife) that labels them as people who tell fairy tales and are afraid of the dark; congratulations Hawking, you've managed to insult a large percentage of the Earth's population with one dickish statement.

Now be a good Christian and forgive him...

Piss off

Avatar 720 wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:

He's managed to make a blanket statement about almost every major religion (those that believe in some form of afterlife) that labels them as people who tell fairy tales and are afraid of the dark; congratulations Hawking, you've managed to insult a large percentage of the Earth's population with one dickish statement.

Now be a good Christian and forgive him...

Piss off

I think i have just have been excommunicated...

Avatar 720 wrote:As intellectual as SH is, he apparently hasn't got tolerance figured out, and obviously can't take the fact that people (a very large number at that, albeit in different forms) have different opinions than he does.

He's managed to make a blanket statement about almost every major religion (those that believe in some form of afterlife) that labels them as people who tell fairy tales and are afraid of the dark; congratulations Hawking, you've managed to insult a large percentage of the Earth's population with one dickish statement.

He's not the first, and won't be the last, but for someone who is supposed to be 'smart', he really lacks tact and tolerance of the beliefs of others.

Some really really smart people have god awful social skills. It's true!

Fafnir wrote:Think: What was it like before you were born? Nothing. After you die, probably the same thing. There is no evidence to support the existance of an afterlife, and thus, no reason to believe in one.

How could there be evidence? Asking for material proof of the existance of the supernatural is to misunderstand both the natural and supernatural worlds.

"You can't disprove Heaven/Hell/God" is not a good enough argument. It's just like saying "you can't disprove Santa Claus." The burden of proof lies on the person raising the argument.

The default state for what lies beyond the natural world is 'unknown/unknowable'. "There is nothing" is just as much of a claim for what lies beyond it as "there is the Creator, and we go to Him when we die".

There is no burden of proof, because it isn't law court. It's a point of spirituality. You believe what you believe.

And I say all that as an atheist.