Transaction Report: Haeslich / revackey

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**Haeslich**

I originally contacted revackey about 5 models he listed for sale on 20 MAY. He quickly sent me pictures and a price of $35, which included shipping. I agreed, checked on him in the Reputable Traders thread, and sent payment through Paypal with my credit card, that evening. Payment is actually dated 19 MAY in my Paypal transaction history.

According to the US Post Office, they received the package on 21 MAY. According to tracking via USPS, the package was delivered on 25 MAY. I opened the package that day, and was surprised to find two bottles pills, labeled to be used for male sexual performance. At the time, I actually chuckled a bit, assumed the package must have been mixed up with mine when the seller shipped them out and I received someone else's order. Not a big deal. I sent revackey a PM and asked if this was the case. He said he didnt know what I was talking about. The tone of his messages seemed like he did not believe what I was telling him so I sent him pictures of what I received.

I talked to the "delivery supervisor" at my local post office and he told me that the package was obviously packaged incorrectly. I talked to revackey about this and we both were quite baffled. He explained he found my story quite hard to believe, and was hesitant to just refund my money. I explained that I could understand his feelings, but that I had done nothing wrong. After further inspection of the package and the packing peanuts I found a single primered terminator.

I told revackey that I had been advised to do a chargeback with my card company but that I didnt feel quite honest doing so, since I had actually received 1 model. I told him that I felt splitting the difference (minus shipping and 1 model) was a pretty fair compromise. I felt this was fair since I had done nothing wrong and had been quite tolerant and forthcoming given the situation.

On 2011/05/26 at 23:16:05 he sent a PM stating he would be open to possibly splitting the difference. I told him it was a weird situation, and that I would like to know what really happened in my next PM. I did not hear from him, nor did he refund the split difference so this morning I sent him a PM asking what the status was. He informed me that he thought the matter was settled, and he had no intention of refunding my money. He insisted that he did not ship the pills and was not at fault.

I disagree, considering as the seller, proper shipping is his responsibility, and according to the post office he did not package it correctly. Given my prompt payment, great communication and willingness to work toward a compromise, I figured he would be more than willing to end this amicably. In fact, when we first discussed the issue he mentioned concern at his reputation being marred. At that time I told him it wasn't a big deal, that I had no interest in starting a thread like this. If I had known this was how the situation would turn out, I would have taken a much harder stance from the get-go.

I have called my credit card company and have begun the process of issuing a chargeback in the amount of $35. I feel that $25.20 is all I am actually owed, given I did receive one terminator. My card company did not give me the option to only ask for a partial chargeback, so once they process it, I intend to reissue payment of $9.80 which covers the $3.50 listed for shipping on the package, and the cost of 1 terminator at 1/5 of the price agreed upon for 5.

**revackey**

I am saddened that you are posting this, I will do the same, as I don't feel that people should have to deal with people like you.

My record is perfect, and your new to this site and just so happen to be involved in a scam.

I did not reply because you sent a PM saying "I am confused to" (Essentially) *See my transaction report for full record of PM's.*

**Mr. Feel Good**

Out of curiosity, how big are the pill bottles and have you tried opening them (are they sealed)? Large pill bottles tend to have cotton padding inside them, which might make them suited to shipping models inside them. This is just a thought and may be 100% wrong, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to bring it up.

**Haeslich**

I am new to the site. I do not see how that should have any bearing on the situation. That implies one has no right to protect himself from this kind of situation unless he has "put in his time" on this website.

This is what I received, I have other pictures as well of the package but they have both my name and address and his so I will not post them here. If a mod would like to see them I do not mind sending them via PM. Both bottles are unopened. The entire package weighed 9.9 ounces according to my postal scale.

**revackey**

Mr. Feel Good wrote:Out of curiosity, how big are the pill bottles and have you tried opening them (are they sealed)? Large pill bottles tend to have cotton padding inside them, which might make them suited to shipping models inside them. This is just a thought and may be 100% wrong, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to bring it up.

I can assure you I did not ship any models in pill bottles, I have no need for those.

Feel free to check out my thread when it is up (Taking time to add in all PMs.), there are pics in there.

I appreciate your concern.

Seeing that picture, I never shipped it in that sort of box, there was no white lining.

**Ketara**

Temporary lock to stop any potential dogpiling/bad jokes/irrelevant posts.

Revackey, I would appreciate it if you edit in your appropriate information and side of the story in your post above. Simply to keep information on this affair consolidated and accessible in one thread.

**revackey**

As requested:

Alright, as some of you may know, I am a fairly respected trader here on Dakka with over 10 trades under my belt. I try to get back to everyone ASAP, and if something goes wrong, please the buyer/trader. (Check Reputable Traders List) I was really pushing to sell some things and ended up selling most of the odds and ends either through Dakka or Bartertown, why anyone (Or myself for that matter) would scam someone is beyond me.

So heres the run down, I put some OOP CSM Termies up on the Swap Shop, I received a PM from a user ( Haeslich) that he was interested, I provide pictures.

I received the payment of $35.00 shipped and shipped them out with delivery confirmation.

A couple days pass, and I receive a PM claiming he got "Ejaculoid Natural Male Explosions" (Weird, I know, see PMs.). Actually reacting is a joking way which I found strange, as I would be very concerned if I had just received pills.

Upon asking for pictures he claims that there were no terminators, rather just pill canisters.

I asked if there was any sign of opening prior to his receiving of the package, after several times, he finally responded no. Weird.

Later on he happens to find a single terminator in the box, and it is confirmed through pictures that it is one of mine, but the other four are nowhere to be found.

So begins the "Argument", although we preferred to keep it quiet and not make a fuss about it, I told him to contact his post office and I would do the same.

Mine said that there was nothing I could do if I sent the miniatures since no sort of insurance was involved (I would only include insurance if shipping to a different country/Hawaii and Alaska.), besides work it out between us.

However, that didn't seem to be working, I did not feel as if I needed to reimburse the money since I fulfilled my part of the trade by sending only 5 terminators, if something was broken and pictures were provided, I would be more than willing to work something out, but with no way of knowing if he just so *happened* to have had some pill containers and figured he wanted the money back, and to keep the terminators. I felt as if it was unfair.

All throughout this time I was contacting the mods who actually told me to set up a TR, and that there was nothing I could do, however, hoping we could come to ease without a TR, I said it would wait, bad choice I guess.

I warn you Dakka, be weary when trading with this guy, it's not likely he'll pull the same thing, but perhaps a different type.

PMs:

Spoiler:

Picture:

Spoiler:

(It was my name, I just used my mothers mailing sticker as I was home at the time, and it was easy.)

Spoiler:

(Was unaware if I got it mixed up with a differet buyer from Bartertown, I didn't he received his items)

Spoiler:

(I didn't find it to funny.)

Spoiler:

(Picture)

Spoiler:

(Contacted RTides about this, best action was to take no liability since I know I shipped the models, or to file a TR.)

Spoiler:

(Confirmed they got their models in perfect condition)

Spoiler:

(Picts)

Spoiler:

(Please note, I never said I would split the difference)

Spoiler:

(I do not respond, as I thought he understood where I was coming from)

Spoiler:

I feel I should not be at fault here, I try to respond quickly, and work out a good trade, but I get stabbed in the back, and accused to be a scammer.

**RiTides**

I have unlocked the thread for now to allow the posting of more information. However, I want to emphasize:

Any posts from traders not involved in this particular trade, or adding helpful information towards its' resolution, will be deleted.

Haeslich, a few questions: What, in your opinion, is the origin of the pills? Do you believe that the package was opened and the terminators stolen, and replaced with the pills? Or that (for some reason?) revackey sent you the pills... along with a single terminator, knowing that this would result?

Do you have a picture of the address on the box? (As revackey says that is not the box that he sent)

Also, this:

Haeslich wrote:I talked to the "delivery supervisor" at my local post office and he told me that the package was obviously packaged incorrectly.

Given that it seems there was a delay in your following up about this... how did this person remember your particular package, out of all those that pass through the post office? I am genuinely curious, as I have never heard of a person at the post office (i.e., not your local postman who delivers to your house regularly) remembering a specific package enough to say how well it was or was not packed, particularly from the outside.

I'd like to hear your answers to those questions, as well as revackey posting the information he has about this trade... just the facts, please.

**Haeslich**

Well, I am not sure what happened. None of the possibilities seem plausible. I showed the guy at the post office the pictures of what I had received. He used the word 'obviously". I asked him if someone might have opened the package and he insisted that was not a possibility. I really have no idea what really happened. He was adamant that the package wasn't secure and had been damaged, a post office employee had placed the pills inside, guessing what contents were to go where. The fact I received 1 terminator confuses me even more.

The rub is I do not find that likely. I frankly do not find any of the possible scenarios likely.

I do have pictures with my address and his mother's printed mailing label for a return address, it also shows the tracking label. It has personal info in it so I won't post it here. I can PM it to you if you want.

As for the postal employee's claim, I don't know. He said no one has touched the package en route, that the whole process is automated. I also find that hard to believe, since he seems to contradict himself. He recommended I file a report with the Postal Inspection Service, so I did.

**Ketara**

My honest opinion here, is that a postal employee somewhere is having a good laugh at the expense of both of you. Why?

Because:-

1) Revackey has an excellent trade record. This would be very out of character for him.
2) Both parties have maintained excellent contact.
3) Ejaculation pills? Seriously? It's such a bizare thing as to make you think neither of the involved parties would choose to use something like this in a scam attempt, simply because it would be such a strange thing to think of.
4) The postal employees credibility seems a little dubious, looking at the claims he's making there. For example, not one hand touched the parcel? Difficult to believe. If he's in charge of the local office, works there, its even theoretically possible he's the perpetrator, or works with him/them.

The whole thing just says to me, that some of the postmen in the backroom found those pills in a lost package or soemthing, and decided to replace them in another package for a laugh. They took out 4 of the terminators, thinking they'd removed them all, but didn't notice one. Haeslich even says he had to scrabble around to find it, it clearly wasn't obvious on his first glance into the parcel. That means that the odds are whoever swapped the goods, took out the other four, but missed that one.

However, none of this aids a resolution necessarily...

**Haeslich**

I can't really argue against your post. I think an offer to split the difference, paying the shipment cost and for the one model, was a fair compromise. I really do not think this is a scam, but if the package had been secured properly this wouldn't be an issue, either way.

**RiTides**

The problem, as I see it, is that there has to be a likely cause. The options are:

1) Revackey intentionally packed a single terminator in the box, along with the pills.

2) The box was opened, a single terminator missed and the rest stolen, and repackaged with the pills.

3) You received the terminators but wanted to reclaim your funds, or part of them.

My problem with #1- Why would someone (with 17 reputable trades) send those pills, knowing what would happen? And why include a single terminator? I do not think this is even in the realm of possibility.

That leaves #2 or #3. Unfortunately, Haeslich, you don't have any successful trades yet... which makes #3 more possible, as you have no "cred" to lose. #2 is also possible but sounds far-fetched...

I will leave this thread open for another reply from each of you, and then I will lock it, as I do not think this can come to a resolution other than writing it off as a loss. However, I will likely edit the title in some way (likely to include both usernames) as from the posted PMs above (which I read all of) revackey has followed through on this trade dispute and I do not see what more he could have done to resolve it... short of issuing a refund which, while admirable, is not justified by the facts shown so far, in my opinion.

In the end, $35 is not a huge loss to take... the important thing is to have the facts out so that people can decide for themselves about future trades.

**revackey**

Haeslich wrote:I can't really argue against your post. I think an offer to split the difference, paying the shipment cost and for the one model. I think this was a fair compromise. I really do not think this is a scam, but if the package had been secured properly this wouldn't be an issue, either way.

Haeslich, I can assure you, it was packaged 100% securely, I filled it with packing peanuts, threw the termies in the center so they would not slide around, shook it to make sure nothing rattled, then closed it with two layers of packing tape on the top and the bottom. I can't think of anything unsafe about that, and you can contact anyone I have traded with and they will tell you the same thing.

I don't feel it is fair to have a Credit Card Company after me now for $35.00.

@Ketara- The story seems logical, I feel ashamed if that is what happened though. However, even there I couldn't have done anything to stop it.

@RTides- Thank you for the response I appreciate the investigation and time spent looking over the PM's.

**agnosto**

RiTides wrote:The problem, as I see it, is that there has to be a likely cause. The options are:

1) Revackey intentionally packed a single terminator in the box, along with the pills.

2) The box was opened, a single terminator missed and the rest stolen, and repackaged with the pills.

3) You received the terminators but wanted to reclaim your funds, or part of them.

My problem with #1- Why would someone (with 17 reputable trades) send those pills, knowing what would happen? And why include a single terminator? I do not think this is even in the realm of possibility.

That leaves #2 or #3. Unfortunately, Haeslich, you don't have any successful trades yet... which makes #3 more possible, as you have no "cred" to lose. #2 is also possible but sounds far-fetched...

I will leave this thread open for another reply from each of you, and then I will lock it, as I do not think this can come to a resolution other than writing it off as a loss. However, I will likely edit the title in some way (likely to include both usernames) as from the posted PMs above (which I read all of) revackey has followed through on this trade dispute and I do not see what more he could have done to resolve it... short of issuing a refund which, while admirable, is not justified by the facts shown so far, in my opinion.

In the end, $35 is not a huge loss to take... the important thing is to have the facts out so that people can decide for themselves about future trades.

Another possibility is that two or several boxes were damaged at a postal sorting facility and the workers put the pills in one box and the majority of the termies in the other. I worked at UPS years ago and this sort of thing wasn't entirely unheard of due to the volume of packages and time constraints on employers/pressure.

This would rule out bad intent on both parties and just lay the stupid-stamp on the postal employees.

**Haeslich**

I actually do have 1 successful trade with lance002 (took place the same day), the OP just hasn't been updated yet, but it is posted. If my goal was to scam $35 my actions would most likely have been quite different than they were. The insinuation as such concerns me, but as you said my lack of a track record handles any defense I may have in that regard.

I find the offer to split the difference more than reasonable. Given the theories that are offered up, I do not find any that show how I am bearing any of the fault here. Hell, I told him I didnt feel honest proceeding forward with a chargeback, but given his change in tone, I felt it was either chalk it up to bad luck, or protect myself through paypal and the credit card company. I felt backed into a corner given his refusal to compromise.

I do not have a problem laying the stupid stamp on the post office, I just don't think I should have to pay for it.

**RiTides**

Alright, both parties have posted their final thoughts, and unfortunately I think this will have to be laid to rest unresolved...

The facts are out now and people can decide for themselves... unless there is any new information to add (in which case, please PM me) I will lock this up.

**RiTides**

Unlocked at revackey's request to post updated information. As always, posts not related to the trade dispute in question will be deleted.

**revackey**

Just a quick update:

A chargeback request was put through for $35, when it opted for Haeslich to send the items back, I received 4 (?)(I threw them out in disgust as soon as I got them) pill bottles, along with a note.

That was around a month or so ago, after getting my power back I came to the unpleasant surprise that the chargeback had in fact gone through, apparently paypal wasn't on my side, which saddens me.

But cutting to the chase, I would be weary of trading with him further. (Mods feel free to edit out, if warning others against the rules, I completely understand.). Looks like I'll be sending invoices from now on so that paypal has a record of what is being sent. (According to customer support, since it was sent as a "gift", nothing could be done?)

Thanks for the unlock,

-Cody

**RiTides**

So just to be clear- the one terminator that Haeslich confirmed to have received (and took a picture of) was not returned?

**revackey**

Correct.

**RiTides**

Good to know... I'll leave this open for a while longer to give Haeslich a chance to respond.

My question is if the requirement to be refunded by Paypal is to return the package, why the model that was confirmed to be received was not returned along with the rest.

**revackey**

He hasn't posted since 6/21, so I'm not sure how active he is, its worth a shot though, perhaps it will pop up in his email.

Your guess is as good as mine, I think he may have, for lack of a better word, cheated it.

The total was $40 IIRC?

He wanted to send me a single terminator, and I would give him $35.00 back, I refused to as I didn't send him the pills, and felt no liability for either the "Post Offices" doings, or quite possibly his doings.

I would assume he sent the pills back, and then not the terminator, for the loss of $5.00.

Now, why anyone would do this doesn't make sense, because, they are OOP, ridiculously expensive for 5 off GW, and not many people have them.

Why you would only want to keep one, assuming you would buy a plastic kit next, is beyond me.

**lord marcus**

I'd just like to testify to Rev's good trading record. He was an excellent bloke to work with and communication was simmilarly top notch.

**nectarprime**

One thing I noticed--- the OP mentions receiving 2 pill bottles, but Rev got 4 back, sans that one terminator.
Very odd situation if you ask me...

**revackey**

lord marcus wrote:I'd just like to testify to Rev's good trading record. He was an excellent bloke to work with and communication was simmilarly top notch.

Thank you

nectarprime wrote:One thing I noticed--- the OP mentions receiving 2 pill bottles, but Rev got 4 back, sans that one terminator.
Very odd situation if you ask me...

I didn't pay much attention to the number of bottles (I should have now that you mention that), I know it was more than two though because about 5 could fit inside the box he sent comfortably, I really apologize for not documenting that, but it was done.

**hemingway**

I work for a very large courier company and have a lot of experience with claims and damages. Perhaps I could shed some light on another possibility.

The box of terminators, along with another containing the pills, is crushed in transit on a dark trailer while being unloaded. Some terminators tumbled out, but it's a dark trailer and it's late at night, so the unloader doesn't see them. He only has the empty box and assumes, as an unloader would, that the loose freight will show itself as he unloads. The unloader gets hit in the head with some tumbling pills and assumes that is what is going in the near empty terminator box. He stuffs the pills in the crushed terminator box after making some Peter North jokes with his coworker and sends the piece out for repacking.

This type of scenario is not unlikely in the least, I can tell you from experience. I don't imagine some postal employee stole the terminators, or else he would have taken them all (in for a penny, in for a pound), said they were smashed, the disposition of the salvage was to send them to the trash, and sent the consignee a claim form.

edit: didn't catch the post about the 2 v. 4 pill bottles. the complainant clearly states that he receives two, but revakey says he received more. this doesn't prove anything, though, really, because if revakey shipped the pills in lieu of the terminators, of course he'd have extras on hand.

**revackey**

Do you think such a thing would put me at fault?

Thats the question! However, I see where your coming from.

Edit: Yea, as I said, thats why I put the (?), it also works the other way, if he had the pills already, he would have extras to ship.

**hemingway**

If you shipped out 5 termies and there was a snafu in transit, that's probably nobody's fault (things get damaged in transit sometimes) unless someone put the terminators under a bunch of brake rotors. It's a question of his word against yours, with the x-factor of a situation like I described thrown in. What can be proved? Can you provide likely evidence that you shipped the box as described, with 5 termies in it (ie: a picture of the box, with the terminators in it, all wrapped up before sealing)? Can he prove that the box in his photos was the one delivered to him? Can he prove he opened it up and had the pills? Does it have postal markings on it? Is there a proof of delivery on the USPS website? Does the postal UPC on the box match the date on the PoD? Those are things that would increase the likelihood of either side's story if there was malicious intent. And if there's malicious intent, someone ought to take the loss, but only on what can be proved or at least demonstrated likely.

**whalemusic360**

Feeling the need to be productive, I looked up the pills (brave, right?) using the website on the bottles. They are on sale for $26.99 a bottle, normally $40. Wouldn't that make sending the pills, even 2 bottles, back to rev actually a money loosing scam?

**Jin**

Gents, I think the discussion is starting to become Off-Topic and overly speculative. Please lets just keep things to the facts.

Revackey and/or Haeslich, please keep us up to date with any other updates.