Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Since the subject of Space Marines and sexuality has come up again, Let's once again drag out what we think we know.

Space Marines are rendered infertile by the process that turns them into space marines. This has been mentioned in the past.

Space Marines are *not* rendered impotent by the process (or, if it does, it's not mentioned). Nor does the process include castration (of the entire removal of the organs type) or emasculation, (aside from it not being mentioned, castrati develop a *tendency* toward being overweight and less aggressive, both not something you want in your space marines.)

The Chem Geld trait in DW/DH/RT can be gained via a whole slew of procedures (some entirely a matter of mental conditioning) and is not 'proof of absence' as it were. Further, all it prevents is being seduced against your will.


While The Emperor's Children would be the logical go-to legion for Proof of this, with such charming quotes as: 'while the Space Marines sought even greater excesses of carnage and carnality' (Index Astartes pg 29, along with Eidelon being the consort of some Queen who's never mentioned again) 'Thousands more died to give the Legionaries more direct, if cruder, enjoyment' (Slaves to Darkness, Pg 263), it's implied at least that even loyalist chapters may enjoy feminine company on occasion, for example, Svengar's making a pass at the ladies, only to find out they were not ladies after all in Codex: Space Wolves.


While it's unlikely that Codex Chapters get it it on, feel free to sound off on this.

There's always the part about Lukas sharing a bed with a dozen ladies just before he was made a Bloodclaw...

AlmightyWalrus wrote:There's always the part about Lukas sharing a bed with a dozen ladies just before he was made a Bloodclaw...

That is completely irrelevant to this...

purplefood wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:There's always the part about Lukas sharing a bed with a dozen ladies just before he was made a Bloodclaw...

That is completely irrelevant to this...

Not at all! It shows that the Space Wolves have at least one guy who's got a history of being a promiscuous guy. If that kind of stuff is part of Fenrisian culture, it would only stand to reason that it lives on amongst the Space Wolves.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

purplefood wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:There's always the part about Lukas sharing a bed with a dozen ladies just before he was made a Bloodclaw...

That is completely irrelevant to this...

Not at all! It shows that the Space Wolves have at least one guy who's got a history of being a promiscuous guy. If that kind of stuff is part of Fenrisian culture, it would only stand to reason that it lives on amongst the Space Wolves.

There is a difference between them making passes at women due to their culture and them making passes at women dueto actually being interested and capable.

There surely is..

The question then arises why would it continue to be a element of Space Wolves culture if the ability were lost. Surely it's a backhanded compliment for them to boast about Lukas' virility if he can't get it up anymore.

Recognizing a particularly attractive woman would actually require a certain amount of the mental hard-wiring for lusting after said to be intact.

I'll go on to point out that since Space Wolves recruit candidates that would be way past the point that they would normally be able to become space marines following the normal implantation procedure in Creation of a Space Marine, that hardwired is already well developed. Further, Space Wolves do not seem to go through the same sort of hypnoindoctrination that other chapters do.

So, yes, it's entirely likely that some chapters can at least feel desire of a sexual nature.

BaronIveagh wrote:The question then arises why would it continue to be a element of Space Wolves culture if the ability were lost.

Because... Phil Kelly said so?

Melissia wrote:Because... Phil Kelly said so?

Source? Because I can't find anything in the books that actually says they're impotent.


And, weirdly enough, if it's really based on viking culture, they would happily slit their own throats first. Castration was viewed right up there with decapitation among the major injuries a man to sustain, and to imply that a man was impotent or a gelding was an insult so dire as to actually be outlawed in some regions.

Sex in Warhammer and all RPG-type games is quite difficult topic, as the players are often young. Although it raises much interest in teenagers, it it somewhat funny subject and mentioning words like intercourse or even romance may cause undesired giggling and kiddyness. It adds little to a game, which center lies between guns, vehicles and monsters. So, I think from the game designer's point of view, there is no need to give much details about sex life of different characters or races. It may even be desired to avoid the matter entirely. Of course we may discuss it, but it is kind of a reverse engineering. There are only vague mentions here and there and the rest we have to come up by ourselves, as sexual matters are only brought up when absolutely necessary, I think. But hey, let's not that get in the way of talk. :-)

At this point, i have never seen a piece of fluff that actually says the marines are rendered Sterile.


I think its Fanfic that has made its way into common knowledge.


Now, certaintly the urge to reproduce will have been drummed out of them with the psycho-therapy. the Space Wolves would appear to not have psycho-therapy so much as the impantation of the Canis Helix really screws with their minds and they revert to extremely base instincts(which would include reproduction)


So, its likely that Marines are 100% capable of reproduction, but they have lost all urges to do so. the Space Wolves are the exception to this due to their culture and unique physiology.


the Emperor's children have simply had their urge restored by Slannesh.

Jani wrote:Sex in Warhammer and all RPG-type games is quite difficult topic, as the players are often young. Although it raises much interest in teenagers, it it somewhat funny subject and mentioning words like intercourse or even romance may cause undesired giggling and kiddyness. It adds little to a game, which center lies between guns, vehicles and monsters. So, I think from the game designer's point of view, there is no need to give much details about sex life of different characters or races. It may even be desired to avoid the matter entirely. Of course we may discuss it, but it is kind of a reverse engineering. There are only vague mentions here and there and the rest we have to come up by ourselves, as sexual matters are only brought up when absolutely necessary, I think. But hey, let's not that get in the way of talk. :-)

I dunno, Warhammer novels have had no problem with having sex. 40k, on the other hand, it seems like only Cain gets any.

you havn't read Eisinhorn or Ravenor omnibusses have you?

Grey Templar wrote:you havn't read Eisinhorn or Ravenor omnibusses have you?

Spoiler:

Eisinhorn gets layed by an old lady friend

Ravenor's blank is a playboy and 2 of his associates are firing it up in the cargo hold

Yeah, IIRC it happens once or twice in the Gaunt's Ghosts novels too, but it's a rare novel that goes by that Cain does not comment on or actively engage some comely lass.

true dat


course, arn't the Cain novels supposed to be sort of a auto-biography?


likely he is highily exaggerating his accomplishments.

Novels, interesting... I did not include any narrative literature to my speculation, as I have not read any, rpg based that is. Does it change anything? (I don't know.)

Eisenhorn isn't a Space Marine AFAIK, so it doesn't bring much to the discussion...

I wouldnt be surprised if they are rendered chemically sterile(not impotent), and they have probably had the libido therapied out of them. And it may very well be possible that they can view someone as attractive hence making a pass out of them in jest, also at least space wolves are recruited slightly older than other SM chapters so they would probably have the memories of sex and whatnot.

Source:In the first space wolves book Ragnar gets it on right before an attack from a rival tribe.

I'd have to say that space marines are completly capable of the act of reproduction but that after all the gene therapy and everything else they go through becoming space marines that they are indeed steril plus the indoctrination would take out all those urges as these are meant to be the ultimate fighting force and the instinct to reproduce would get in the way. Besides that there is also the fact that most of the codex chapters tend to lead more of a monastic life in which sex has no part. Also if space marines could reproduce why go through all the trouble of recruiting when reproduction would also create more space marines.

people tend to forget that being Monastic doesn't equal Celebite. many monastic orders in history had Celebicy as a requirement, but it was far from being a common denominator.




in the end, we can only say this for certain.


Marines will, with a few exceptions, have no sex drive.

they also MIGHT be sterile, but we have no difinitive evidence on this.



@Wolfie: if a marine was to have a child it wouldn't be a space marine or any other kinda of super human. it would be a normal child, albiet one which posessed the traits of its parent, and as such would either be a potential future candidate if male, or the mother of a potential future candidate if female.

so there would be some advantage in space marines breeding normally. they would pass on their superior genes, which allowed them to be selected as marines in the first place, to their offspring.


Marines would breed potential candidates through natural means and, with their Geneseed, would create new space marines through the progenoids.

Grey Templar wrote:people tend to forget that being Monastic doesn't equal Celebite. many monastic orders in history had Celebicy as a requirement, but it was far from being a common denominator.




in the end, we can only say this for certain.


Marines will, with a few exceptions, have no sex drive.

they also MIGHT be sterile, but we have no difinitive evidence on this.



@Wolfie: if a marine was to have a child it wouldn't be a space marine or any other kinda of super human. it would be a normal child, albiet one which posessed the traits of its parent, and as such would either be a potential future candidate if male, or the mother of a potential future candidate if female.

so there would be some advantage in space marines breeding normally. they would pass on their superior genes, which allowed them to be selected as marines in the first place, to their offspring.


Marines would breed potential candidates through natural means and, with their Geneseed, would create new space marines through the progenoids.

I might point out that Uriel Ventris supposedly had an ancestor in the 1st company killed at the polar fortress during the first tyranid war. Ultramarines seem to recruit young, but it's also not clear if he's a direct decedent.

Like I said: not all chapters seem to go into the mental indoctrination to the same degree. Space Wolves seem to do it very little, and the novel for the battle of the Fang seems to imply that Bloodclaws at least still show an interest in women, though no overt mating takes place. I would suggest that the level of remaining libedo is directly inverse to the amount of hypnoindoctrination.

I agree,


the fact that Ragnar is still making passes at women while a wolfblade(years after any libido dampening effects should have kicked in) suggests that they still have at least a passing interest as full fledged marines.


its still probably low on the priorities list. they probably view it as a diversion much like we would view playing a game. it isn't a major thing, but more of a personal preference thingy.