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So at the Apocalypse game last weekend 2 things struck me, the level of detail for vehicles was too granular, but Superheavies were much too vulnerable.

For the normal vehicles you can easily have a dozen or more per player and after a turn or two tracking stuns, immobilized, weapon destroyed is just a pain.

For superheavies you lose a structure point 1/3 of the time and your opponent gets to roll again 1/6 of the time. I'm pretty sure that Titans are not supposed to go down to a dread or a termi assaulting its ankles.

So here's my 2 proposals. Drastically simplify damage for normal vehicles while increase the granularity for the Superheavies.

Apocalypse Vehicle Damage
1-3 Stunned, may not move or shoot (including embarked models)
4-6 Destroyed (remove vehicle, models within take a S4 hit)

Normal modifiers apply.

This simplifies things greatly and really only increases the chance of destruction 1/6. I took out the explosion for models within d6 to simplify things, in big scrums an explosion can slow things down.

Squadrons would ignore Stunned as normal.

Apocalypse Superheavy Vehicle Damage

Roll 2d6 with the normal modifiers for AP1, glancing etc
If a result is not applicable move up to the next result

2 Secondary weapon shaken, may not fire next turn
3 Primary weapon shaken, may not fire next turn
4 Stunned, may not move or fire primary weapons next turn (may fire secondary weapons)
5 Stunned, may not move or fire next turn
6 Secondary weapon destroyed
7 Primary weapon destroyed
8 Armor damaged (-1 AV to that facing for the rest of the game)
9 Fire (+1 to damage results for the rest of the game, embarked models take S3 hit)
10 Drive damaged, may only move at half speed (immobilized if this is rolled again)
11 Lose a structure point
12 Lose a structure point and roll again


I worry that #5 is too common and too powerful, with only 4-5 turns in a game losing a whole turn of shooting seems a bit much. Maybe move it higher in the chart or maybe make it roll 4+ to fire a weapon?

Anyway thoughts?

I don't think it's that damage tables for regular vehicles need to be less granular, it's that the damage table for super heavies should be a little more granular to reflect everything that can happen to a vehicle (no matter what size it is).

I think these rules make some sense. Really, they don't change a whole lot for normal vehicles, since a roll of 4 on the normal table is often a destroyed result thanks to the squadron rules. As for the superheavy table, I like the idea, but you are definitely right that you need to change the order of the effects. With a 2D6 table, you are now looking at a bell curve, where 6, 7, and 8 are the most likely results (think Craps). So, this means the less severe results need to be in the middle, while the really nasty stuff needs to be in the 2 and 12 positions. Look at the critical hits table for Dystopian Wars to see what I mean:

http://www.spartangames.co.uk/wp/downloads/dystopianwars/Dystopian_Wars_Fast_Play_Sheet_Low_Res.pdf

Funny you two are the only ones to comment!

Looking at the original post I didn't pay quite enough attention to the bell curve, it's now pretty unlikely to lose a SP. So let's try again.

The low results are trivial, most superheavies have enough weapons that the loss of 1 for a turn does not matter, that's why I put it near the bottom. I also made the loss of secondary weapons worse for the weapon destroyed result.

2 One secondary weapon shaken, may not fire next turn
3 One primary weapon shaken, may not fire next turn
4 Stunned, may not move, must roll 4+ to fire any primary weapons next turn (may fire secondary weapons, roll for each)
5 Stunned, may not move, must roll 4+ to fire any weapons next turn (roll for each)
6 d6 Secondary weapons destroyed
7 Primary weapon destroyed
8 Drive damaged, may only move at half speed (immobilized if this is rolled again)
9 Lose a structure point
10 Lose a structure point and armor damaged (-1 AV to that facing for the rest of the game)
11 Lose a structure point and Fire (+1 to damage results for the rest of the game, embarked models take S3 hit)
12 Lose a structure point and roll again (if you roll a second 12 you may continue to roll)

One problem was where to put the loss of a structure point. On a d6 you have a 33% chance, but on 2d6 it's either a 27% chance (rolling a 9) or a 42% chance (rolling 8). So I went with the 27% chance but added additional bad stuff to most of the rolls.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Funny you two are the only ones to comment!

Looking at the original post I didn't pay quite enough attention to the bell curve, it's now pretty unlikely to lose a SP. So let's try again.

The low results are trivial, most superheavies have enough weapons that the loss of 1 for a turn does not matter, that's why I put it near the bottom. I also made the loss of secondary weapons worse for the weapon destroyed result.

2 One secondary weapon shaken, may not fire next turn
3 One primary weapon shaken, may not fire next turn
4 Stunned, may not move, must roll 4+ to fire any primary weapons next turn (may fire secondary weapons, roll for each)
5 Stunned, may not move, must roll 4+ to fire any weapons next turn (roll for each)
6 d6 Secondary weapons destroyed
7 Primary weapon destroyed
8 Drive damaged, may only move at half speed (immobilized if this is rolled again)
9 Lose a structure point
10 Lose a structure point and armor damaged (-1 AV to that facing for the rest of the game)
11 Lose a structure point and Fire (+1 to damage results for the rest of the game, embarked models take S3 hit)
12 Lose a structure point and roll again (if you roll a second 12 you may continue to roll)

One problem was where to put the loss of a structure point. On a d6 you have a 33% chance, but on 2d6 it's either a 27% chance (rolling a 9) or a 42% chance (rolling 8). So I went with the 27% chance but added additional bad stuff to most of the rolls.

I like this version better, although the results you have in the middle are still a bit severe for my tastes . Something like this is what I had in mind:

2 Lose a structure point and Fire (+1 to damage results for the rest of the game, embarked models take S3 hit)
3 Primary weapon destroyed
4 d6 Secondary weapons destroyed
5 One primary weapon shaken, may not fire next turn
6 One secondary weapon shaken, may not fire next turn
7 Stunned, may not move, must roll 4+ to fire any weapons next turn (roll for each)
8 Stunned, may not move, must roll 4+ to fire any primary weapons next turn (may fire secondary weapons, roll for each)
9 Drive damaged, may only move at half speed (immobilized if this is rolled again)
10 Lose a structure point
11 Lose a structure point and armor damaged (-1 AV to that facing for the rest of the game)
12 Lose a structure point and roll again (if you roll a second 12 you may continue to roll)

I agree with your logic of moving to a statistically resolved table, but it makes applying bonuses for certain weapons hard (since +1 is only good when its higher then 7).

I'm less sure of reducing the other table though...lots of folks lack superheavies and might be unhappy.

Jack

Instead of making the super heavy table more granular with a 2D6 role which of course produces a bell curve you could simply instead double the number of structure points. That would make a lot of super heavies a real beast to bring down even if you get a couple of sixes.

Also if it is really the sixes that are getting people down. Why not have a table that goes to 7. A lot of weapons get +1 : melta, ordanace, anything AP1, monsterous/gargantuan creatures. So in effect to get the really good roll again result you need a tool that could do that sort of damage.