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I'm getting to the point where I feel I'm mastered Tyranid shooting list so now, as the title implies, it's time to change things up, a lot.

For those of you who haven't read about what I typical list run in my P&M blog, the following list is an example of what I typically run at 2k points.

1x Tyrant | Brainleech, Lash/Whip, Commander, Adversary.
3x Hive Guard
3x Hive Guard
2x Venomthrope
1x Tervigon | Adrenals, Toxin sacs, Scytals, Cluster spines, Catalyst
4x Warriors | Devourers, Lash/Whip, Toxin Sacs, 1x Barbed Strangler
22x Devilgaunts
22x Devilgaunts
3x Biovore
3x Biovore
1x Trigon Prime

Like I said, there's a lot of shooting and plenty of large blasts to go around. Everything starts on the table except for the Trigon Prime and the Warriors, which outflank thanks to the Tyrant. The Tervigon, 20 gaunts, 3 Hive guard and the 6 Biovores typically stay back to cover the objective while the rest slogs it toward the enemy, thus creating 2 bubble-wrapped synapse groups.

Now then, here's the direction I'm thinking of going towards with my idea of a drastic change for an upcoming game against Orks:

1x Tyrant | Brainleech, Lash/Whip, Commander.
3x Hive Guard
2x Venomthrope
8x Ymgarls
15x devilgaunts in a Pod
15x devilgaunts in a Pod
16x Devilgaunts on foot
8x Genestealers | Scytals and Toxins & Broodlord | Scytals
8x Genestealers | Scytals and Toxins & Broodlord | Scytals
2x Carnifex | 2x Brainleech, Adrenals
1x Trigon Prime | Adrenals

Quite simply, everything that isn't in reserves clumps up and travels together, with Carnies providing cover for the Tyrant, the Venoms, Devilgaunts on foot and the Hive Guard. All of the genestealers will be outflanking so that they can assault on arrival. The idea then is to run the hammer to the "Anvil from The Sky".

What I'd be interested to hear is people's experience with pod lists so I can possibly tweak this list and make it as effective as my standard list.

Well I'm a huge fan of Null-deployment lists... I don't run them anymore because it got boring to use all the time... However, against Orks... it is not the best type of list to use. Often you just give him free access to Charge you right away. 2 Pods with devils should be fine against Orks, but they will die no matter what. But like everything in our codex... they are expendable

But look at your Tyrant. I know you will use the carnifex's as cover, but doen't you think it is a little expensive cover for the Tyrant? I would consider give it the Shell or some Tyrant Guards... Or maybe even both. Also I would drop the Broodlord. It just cost way too much considered what it can. try to fill up the numbers of genestealers instead.

To honest... I think the first list would be better against Orks. I would still give the Tyrant some Guards or the Shell in that list though.

just my 2 cents

To honest... I think the first list would be better against Orks. I would still give the Tyrant some Guards or the Shell in that list though.

That's just it, it is quite good against Orks. It does very well against pretty much anything but Mechdar and Mech IG. I'm in a similar position as you are, in that I'm getting bored with this list because it's working too well. A null deployment list is just something different.

Also I would drop the Broodlord. It just cost way too much considered what it can. try to fill up the numbers of genestealers instead.

Sounds good and makes sense to me. I've yet to deploy genestealers in any of my games as I just don't like pure CC units. To me, it makes no sense to just rush headlong into a unit without having any kind of shooting. Reminds too much of Polish Cavalry charges and we all know how well that went... I see Genestealers as either over-costed "hormogaunt vets" or "budget stabbie Warriors", very much in a sort of points vs. efficiency limbo around which I would not build a whole army. So we'll after this game if I like them.

Often you just give him free access to Charge you right away. 2 Pods with devils should be fine against Orks, but they will die no matter what. But like everything in our codex... they are expendable

That's what I figured and it's why I made sure the squads were at least 15 models. This way there's enough shooting coming out of the unit to cause serious harm but there's also a chance (a very slim one) that the unit might actually survive a charge. The plan with these guys is to drop them far in his back lines, close to some mob that might not be in cover, thereby forcing him to redirect part of his force to deal with the new threat. I'm thinking I'll just bump them up to 20 and get rid of the foot squad.

But look at your Tyrant. I know you will use the carnifex's as cover, but don't you think it is a little expensive cover for the Tyrant? I would consider give it the Shell or some Tyrant Guards...

I used to take Shell before but realised that 2+ isn't that much better than 3+, especially when most of the shooting or cc that heads his way ignores armour. Oddly enough, Wings at 60 points made him more survivable then the 40 point Shell because of the added movement, but this is not the list to deploy a winged Tyrant. Regeneration on the other hand, I've never tried before so in keeping with the theme of this list, I'll try it this time.

As for the Carnifexii, I've played them before in that role and they worked out really. For 25% more points than 3 Tyrant Guard you get 25% more wounds, and 24 S6 shots on the move to further weaken whatever is within your threat. Well worth the extra cost. But again, in keeping with the theme, I'll drop the Carnies and move the points around.

After looking at the suggestions one thing I definitely didn't like was that there still was a static element, meaning that I did have to worry about synapse for rear artillery elements such as Hive Guard. Therefore, I'm going to attach the Tyrant to a large unit of Warriors and outflank the whole lot. This will allow me to get rid of Venoms and Hive Guard.

The new list is now:

1x Tyrant | Brainleech, Lash/Whip, Commander, Adversary.
8x Warriors | Deathspitter, Sword/Whip, Toxins +1 Barbed Strangler
1x Deathleaper
6x Ymgarls
20x devilgaunts in a Pod
20x devilgaunts in a Pod
7x Genestealers | Scytals and Toxins
7x Genestealers | Scytals and Toxins
1x Carnifex | 2x Brainleech, Adrenals, Frag Spines in a Pod w/ Cluster Spines
1x Trigon Prime | Adrenals

There we go, total null deployment.

Subscribed! Looking forward to seeing your competitive take on this type of list!

Still think you need a guard/wings on that tyrant.

Carnifexes in spores can be good. I've had some luck with them.

Deathleaper is good when he's there, but don't rely on that +1 to reserves. I would prefer some zoeys in a spore.

Warriors are also far better beng dropped in than walking, so why not go wings/all DS?

[cue: air-raid siren] Wall of text incoming! You have been warned...

So the battle's come and gone and I'm left with a mixture of feelings about the null deployment list. One thing that I'll need to get used to is that I was just as much in the dark about my plans as my opponent because a null-deployment list feels more like playing a lottery than going "all in". The inability to know when who comes in means that if you don't have double or triplicate units, planning and execution of a battle plan is even more of a crap shoot. All it takes is a series of bad reserve rolls and you're basically helping your opponent play a game of whack-a-mole as your units come in 1 by 1.

Deployment & Mission | Table quarters, Capture and Control.

Ork objective: right in the middle of his zone.
Nid objective: as close to middle of the board.

I win first turn but let my opponent go first since due to objectives.

His list (quoting very roughly as there were just so many models)

2 Mega Cans
2 squads of 3 Cans
2 Squads of 3 Copters
1 squad of 25 Gretchin
3 squads of 17 boys
1 squad of burna boys
1 mek with power field
2 squads of lootas

My list is at the bottom of my previous post.

First turn
Orks: Fearing outflankers, and making the most of the amount of bodies, the Orks just fill up the whole quarter. I couldn't even put a pod in there if I wanted to.
Nids: Nothing to report. Everything is either: in a pod, digging, outflanking or lurking.

Second turn
Orks: Spread out a bit towards central objective but stay mostly static since there's nothing to run towards, screaming "Waaaaarghhhh!"
Nids: More than 40% decides to show up for the party.
Tyrant with Warriors outflank on a grassy knoll on the ork side.
Both devilgaunt squads crash down within shooting range, one near, one far..
Trygon Prime shows up in the midle of the gaunt squads ready to provide back-up.
One of the genestealers show up.
As expected, Deathleaper is napping somewhere.
Warriors and Tyrant unload into the burna squad, killing a third, Paroxysm goes off and assault killing off 2 more. Due to odd terrain, only 1 warrior can get into base contact, hence the low casualty rate.
First Gaunt squad unloads into a squad of lootas. Red mist. Poof! Gone. 60 shots will do that...
Second Gaunt squad unloads into a squad of boys. Only 8 of 20 die thanks to cover saves. Not bad (for him) considering 17 wounds.
Genestealers assault Mega Can. They would be stuck there for 3 turns as my rending rolls just sucked.

Third Turn
Orks: 1 squad of copters comes in near one squad of gaunts.
With a target in sight the green tide surges forward.
The combat with Warriors and Tyrant results in 3 dead orcs for 1 warrior.
2 genestealers die.
Close squad of gaunts loses 12 models to shooting, assault and failed fearless saves.
Nids: Everything else comes in.
Far Gaunt squad Vaprorises the coptas.
close gaunt squad puts in a few wounds in combat.
Tyrant and warriors lose 2 more models but kill everyone but one model.
Genestealers immobilise the Mega-kan while losing 1 more model.
Ymgarls show up and chew up the squad of orks that killed the close Gaunt squad down to the last ork, then consolidate back into cover.
Trigon Prime kills half the squad of lootas in a nearby building.

Fourth Turn
Orks: Last Copter squad comes in along with another big squad of boys... So many bodies!
Mega-can's grots fix-it-up and it's no longer immobile.
Assault cleans up squad of close guants and genestealers.
Shooting does little except take down 3 Ymgarls.
Deathleaper gets raped in a back alley.
Burnas finally die but Warriors only roll a 1 for consolidation meaning the rest of the squad can't clamber down the terrain.
Nids:Trigon Prime shoots and assaults Mega-Can #2, blows it up good.
Carnifex shoots at one squad of Cans, kills 2.
The 2 Ymgarls assault the remaining Can, destroy a weapon and in turn get pulped.
Warriors and Tyrant, shoot and assault large squad of boys, routing them off the board. Sadly, there's still 45 models bubble wrapping the objective...
Far Gaunt squad runs towards the objective in the center of the board, trying to make it for turn 5.

Unfortunately, we had to call the game at this point meaning it was Victory for the Orks, 1-0 due to objectives.

What then are the positives of this game.
1. Devilgaunts in pod make for a very effective anti-infantry bombardment if you will allow me the image. 60shots @ S4 paid off quite well.
2. Outflanking a Tyrant with Warriors is much better than a winged or guarded variant. He shows up closer to where you want him (if your outflank rolls pay off).
3. Warriors are much better all around units than Guard too for the points. Kitted out as they were, Warriors were 20 points cheaper, can shoot, and can be taken in greater numbers. I think I've found a new favourite combo.
4. Trigon Prime is a good solid performer. Never really stellar but he's always done something worthwhile that few units could do as easily. Really have to look into regeneration.
5. Mycetic spore tentacles are fun and effective. Make sure you land as close to vehicles as possible and let the ripping begin. Really blows that you can't deploy them individually like Marines can (Thanks to GW's the horrible FAQ) but at least we have spores.

What wasn't so good?
1. Pod deployment makes it a lot harder to focus your whole force on one corner of the opposing, unlike my usual shooty foot list. Not too sure I like that but I can see where my choice of landing zones could have been improved.
2. Lack of Biovores screwed me over big time! Considering that most of my opponent's troops were filling up every corner of his deployment all the into turn 3, though still had cover due to KFF, my usual 6 spore blasts per turn would have been devastating and could have probably cleared his objective very easily through massed bombardment.
3. Genestealers suck in combat vs. walkers. Plain and simple. Except for Ymgarls, which did quite well all things considered, I now have a bunch of genestealers looking for a new home. IMHO, and for my preferred play style, I'll even go so far as to say Genestealers suck. I'll be taking Warriors instead and get a more versatile unit.
4. Deathleaper did exactly what I expected him to do. Nothing of measurable worth. He showed up once everybody else had already come in, killed nothing, injured nothing, and died quickly. If only he could attack on the turn he arrives like Ymgarls or outflankers he'd be worth it. Currently, he's just not worth it even with his leadership reduction power. Even assuming he shows up on turn 2, you won't be benefiting from his pheromone trail until turn 3. Buying 2 individual Lictors for 10 points might be more worthwhile even though that will take up 2 Elite slots... gakky situation all around but at least their reserve bonus could be a bit more reliable.

Stay tuned as I crunch some numbers to come up with some tweaks.

A very enjoyable read! Sounds like it would have been a close call had you finished the game. Not good enough though i suspect. I think something we discussed a while back is important here. Pod lists, in theory, play better at 500 to 1000 points. If you recall you mentioned a possible 1200 point sweet spot. Maybe you should this sort of list in lower point games? I know by now that you really do everything big and normally that's perfect for 'Nids, i don't think it'll be effective this time. I think Genestealers and Deathleaper would be very effective the lower the points you play as well. Like you i would have guessed the Deathleapers failure in this game preemptively, though i would never have thought it this bad, i guess the dice were not on your side?

Anyway, lots to think about from your findings, looking forward to seeing the next evolution.

I think you may be right about the 1200 point sweet spot for the good use of a pod list. Though I'm thinking that in this case, what happened was that I sacrificed too much of what I usually take, namely, a ton of large blast weapons. Even if Biovores had been on reserves I think they could have made a big impact, pun intended.

Deathleaper's failure had nothing to do with dice in this case. He just played as average as always, while also fashionably late "as always". Basically, he's the Tyranid equivalent to Tau Stealth suits. As tempting as it is to give them a fusion blaster and try to pop vehicles with them, there true role is cheap-ish anti-infantry that is really really hard to shoot down from 18 inches away. Deathleaper is a terror unit. He needs to be kept the heck away from anything except weak isolated units. He's there to give you a +1 to reserves and mess with leadership. That's it. Anything with more 2 wounds shouldn't even be looked at as he'll surely die.

The main cause of my downfall in this game was, in one word: deployment. When picking my drop locations I basically didn't apply the cardinal rule of Nids, stay clumped, move en masse. To really make the most of nids and their multiple synergy bubbles, you have to think of your army as an octopus. Each unit is not an entity unto itself, like Marines, they are rather like one of the 8 arms, feeling, distracting, exploring, probing or prying open a juicy target, all working together from multiple angles in order to overwhelm unidirectional foes. When deploying, I was too scattered and not aggressive enough. Sure I swallowed the various distractions the orks fed my troops but they were just that, tertiary threats. The main body of his force was mostly untouched even though it was quite weak.

I'm pretty sure a null-deployment list could really be effective at the higher points levels but in order to get there, I really need to:
a) double up on some units in order to get effective redundancy.
b) refine my ability to pick good drop zones and thus make the most of piece meal arrivals.
c) get some more large blast makers.

Still don't have an idea what that'll look like but I'm working on it.

Not sure about how the warriors and tyrant outflanked. Tyrant is not an IC - only unit he can join to is tyrant guard. Also, if he gives the warriors outflank there is no way for him to outflank himself - he comes on his own board edge unless he has wings.

Not surprised deathleaper did nothing - the model/description sounds good but he just never performs on the table ...

Oh damn, you're right. Can't believed I missed that absent line of text all this time. Here I assumed that since he could join Tyrant Guard, he could join other units.

Now I know why nobody else had tried that delivery method before...

Looking at deployment options with fresh eyes it seems that only a Tyranid Prime and the Parasite are IC's. Even then, the only way to deliver the Prime is outflank him via a joined squad because the FAQ prohibits him from joining a squad in a pod. Wonderful. Now I understand why the pod list users felt betrayed by the FAQ.

Back to a hybrid list then.

Oh crap... My list just took a huge blow. Can't believe i hadn't read the FAQ yet.

I remember when the FAQ first came that my reaction was pretty much "meh" as I didn't use any of the units that were nerf-bombed by the aforementioned atrocity.

Now that I'm trying to get a reserve list together... Damn! Talk about getting the grass cut underneath your feet. As far I can tell now, pure reserve lists are somewhat dead. What can be achieved with a hybrid list however is definitely interesting and might actually have some potential. Here then, are the results of my brain and number crunching. A foot core with multiple reserve elements.

1x Tyrant | Lash/Whip, Commander, Adversary, Adrenals, Regen.
3x Tyrant Guard
Tervigon | Adrenals, Toxins, Catalyst, Cluster spines, Regen.
6x Biovores

10x Ymgarls
2x Zooanthropes | Pod
2x Zooanthropes | Pod
20x devilgaunts in a Pod | Cluster spines
20x devilgaunts in a Pod | Cluster spines
1x Trigon Prime | Adrenals, Regen.

The idea with this list is to establish a solid foot presence right off the start as well as reclaim some anti-infantry that I was really lacking in that last game with Orks.

The foot section | The Tyrant, being on the ground right from the start will give the +1 to reserves right in turn 2, unlike that failbot Deathleaper who can't do anything until turn 3 at the earliest. Furhtermore, for the first time ever, I'm not getting any ranged weapons for the Tyrant and joined him to some Tyrant Guard. He run forward until he beats face, no pauses for aiming whatsoever. The Biovores will do what they always, blow squads off the board. The Tervigon will provide a quick bubble wrap layer in turn 1 for the Tyrant then hang back with the Biovores, provide synapse and bubble wrap support while possibly chilling on top of an objective.

The reserves | Devilgaunts worked as planned last time so they're unchanged. To deal with Mech (somewhat effectively &) quickly I'm going for redundant Zooanthropes. Buy them in pairs and one of them is bound to do what's expected. As for the Genestealers from the last list, I've condensed them into the one Ymgarl squad and boosted their numbers to full strength. What seems to be the issue with my previous method of deployment was insufficient squad size so I'll try them at 10. If things don't pan out I'm swearing Genestealers off completely. Compared to Warriors, Genestealers just don't have the reliability. Point 2 or 3 Warriors to 10 Marines, Squad goes poof on a consistent basis. Speaking of Warriors, they are conspicuously absent from this list because the Tervigon took their place. Seeing as how I needed a survivable synapse unit to babysit the Biovores, at 225
points the Tervigon was the best choice.

The newest test | Lastly, I'm testing a biomorphs across the board with this list — Regeneration. I should hopefully have a better picture of it's worth after trying this list out.

Stay tuned for results. Feedback and critique welcome as always in the meantime.

Whoa, that looks like a deadly list. Mech would be the only real problem i think but Nid's never deal with mech too well so that's normal imo. Can't decide if i'm sold on the Zoanthropes. Hmm, i'm not sure if regen will pay off. If the dice are on your side it'll pay off big time though.

We might see how it works tomorrow. I've got a friend coming over with his Chaos and I don't know whether I'll be bringing out the prototype Dark Elves or Nids. It'll all depend on how many points he brings.

As it stands I'm trying to bang out as many models as possible for tomorrow so I can test out the Dark Eldar. While sculpting, I think I may have stumbled upon a fun idea, titled the Kabal of the Flying Circus in honour of Monty Pithon and the large amount of people in gimp gear (Wracks, Grotesques, Talos & Haemonculii, oh my!). It's the plan I'll work towards for 2k+.

More details in the Portal thread as that list develops.