Tau CCW

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Your Friend Doctor Robert**

This came up talking with a friend of mine, saying that Tau Battlesuits should have an option for close combat. This is what we came up with.

New Tau Wargear: Beamblade

Designed as a last resort should the enemy manage to come to grips, a Beamblade is intended to allow the user some measure of defense in close combat. It can be mounted on Battlesuits, but does not take up a Hardpoint, and comes standard on Broadside suits. Contrary to doctrine, some Tau Forces, particularly those under Commander Farsight's command, use Beamblades as a primary weapon, citing its excellence at cutting through even Tank Armor, and its ability to surprise an enemy who expects a standard Tau force

Beamblades: Counts as a Power Weapon with the Rending special rule.

+15 Points Per Model

**acekevin8412**

Your idea seems better suited to a dedicated Farsight force than a regular Tau army. The only CC defense the tau use are defensive grenades. Since its supposed to used as a last resort something akin to the IG hunting lances would make more sense. If the Tau were able to even partially reverse engineer the Dawn Blade, it would probably end up like something like what you describe. As a mass produced weapon however, I think that power weapon and rending is a bit much. Crisis Suits have 2-4 S5 attacks anyway, just rending or just power weapon should be sufficient in my opinion.

Personally though, since it is supposed to be a desperation weapon, I think that this statline would better represent it.

Once per game, a model equipped with a "Typhoon" cyclic beam projector self-defense system may forgo its usual attacks. Instead, place the small/large blast marker centered over the model. Every enemy model under the blast takes a S8 Power weapon hit with the lance rule.

Yes, I am ripping off the Typhoon system from Deus Ex 3

**Your Friend Doctor Robert**

I'd rather have something reliable that a suit could use every time it needs it; what good is a defensive measure that only works once?

I'd also like to see Farsight and similar-thinking commanders whose Battlesuits can be used as semi-assaulty units.

**acekevin8412**

Since its a defensive weapon, you should only need to use it once. If a Tau is letting itself get into CC multiple times, then its doing something wrong.

If you want to assault playing the Tau, I think most people would say your playing the wrong army.

Farsight allowing Crisis Suits, even just his own bodyguard, to take just a power weapon would be interesting.

**Jefffar**

I don't like the idea of a weapon tht allows the Tau to be aggressive in close combat because . . . well the Tau psychology is opposed to this action.

Instead look to close combat items the Tau already use - things like Photon Grenades and Flechette Dischargers to blunt the rush of an incoming attack or Failsafe Detonators and Retro Thrusters to escape combat once it's joined.

So rather than try to win combat, the Tau try to deter it, mitigate it and escape it.

**Your Friend Doctor Robert**

acekevin8412 wrote:Since its a defensive weapon, you should only need to use it once. If a Tau is letting itself get into CC multiple times, then its doing something wrong.

If you want to assault playing the Tau, I think most people would say your playing the wrong army.

Farsight allowing Crisis Suits, even just his own bodyguard, to take just a power weapon would be interesting.

Try to see past a single battle; the Tau are always prepared for long lasting campaigns. That's why they use Devilfish instead of Drop Pods, Drones where Missiles could fill a similar role, etc. A highly mobile force like a Tau Cadre has to do everything it can to keep from being dependent on supply lines, and not replacing a defensive measure after every battle would be helpful.

**acekevin8412**

You make a fair point, and for the more aggressive Cadres I can see this happening. However, despite being very tactically fluid and adaptive, the Tau are quite dogmatic in belief. I doubt they will adapt such a drastic change in doctrine so quickly.

If your idea was part of Farsight's rules, I would wholeheartedly agree. That would turn Crisis Suits into the "Gundams" they were based off of. However, for your average garden variety Tau, I don't think it'd work the way you think it would.

@Jefffar: Have you read through the Tau Brainstorming thread? I proposed a new set of rules for Photon Grenades. Instead of acting as defensive grenades, they grant the unit Hit-and-Run and +1/2 Initiative for the test.

**Your Friend Doctor Robert**

Here's an idea; add a new Commander type, with +1 WS and I at a higher price. Give them a rule that lets all your suits take Beamblades, as above. Fluff explanation is they're one of the commanders working under Farsight, and they've adopted his combat doctrine somewhat.

**acekevin8412**

That works, in addition, Fire Warriors get the following added for +20pts per unit: +1WS, +1I, Pulse Pistol, CCW. The Shas'Ui can take a vibroblade type weapon that is rending for +5pts

**Humbaba**

The thing is, even if you get a pw on your commanders squad what would you do with them?
The rest of your army still sucks in cc except kroot which farsight cant take...

Either your suits would sit around doing nm for most of the game and maybe counter assault
a little, and frankly against a dedicated assault unit like terminators they would fold fast..

Or they would be isolated really fast and then die...

As for the cc weapons in the fw squads... why? it would be just like giving a da a dire sword
just because the srgnt is a little better in cc doesn't mean the squad is...

Idk i just dont think tau should go for cc, maybe just farsight and his squad but as said above
i dont think it woud be that effective even if you could...

edit: I did not realize you said it does not take up a hardpoint this makes it alot more useful
however i think that since sm pwrweps ar 15 points and this one will be rending and str 5
maybe it should be more like 20 points?

srry for not reading correctly

**Your Friend Doctor Robert**

What's with the funny paragraph structure?

In any case, the point of this, I suppose, is to make an Assaulty unit for Farsight, to substitute for his lack of Kroot. Make sense?

**Jefffar**

I'd say Drones but he isn't big on those either.

**Rented Tritium**

I like it. Personally, I think giving farsight the old "as long as X is in your army, your Y may take Z" trope is pretty appropriate here.

I have no problem with Tau CC. I really can't stand when people argue fluff as though races are these single monolithic things with only one viewpoint. This comes up quite often with tau.

The tau are an entire race of people, to say that "the tau" would or would not do an entire type of thing is dumb and racist. A good writer can concoct a story where a specific cadre or leader does something different. Just like the argument about eldar joining tau, maybe the political leadership wouldn't do something, but a specific group of individuals may do whatever they want.

**acekevin8412**

Rented Tritium wrote:I like it. Personally, I think giving farsight the old "as long as X is in your army, your Y may take Z" trope is pretty appropriate here.

I have no problem with Tau CC. I really can't stand when people argue fluff as though races are these single monolithic things with only one viewpoint. This comes up quite often with tau.

The tau are an entire race of people, to say that "the tau" would or would not do an entire type of thing is dumb and racist. A good writer can concoct a story where a specific cadre or leader does something different. Just like the argument about eldar joining tau, maybe the political leadership wouldn't do something, but a specific group of individuals may do whatever they want.

Like you said, it is completely plausible that isolated individuals, like Farsight, would take a different approach to combat. However, the majority of the Fire Caste are going to be conformists and not venture too far from their current combat doctrine. According to the fluff, when the XV9, a close-support suit, was put into service, there was a controversy concerning its engagement range because of the dangerous proximity it puts soldiers to assault.

**Jefffar**

True, but with Weapon Skill and Initiative at 2 and only 1 attack, giving an entire squad of Tau power weapons is kinda like giving an Ork a Railgun. Just nowhere near as effective as you would hope and a waste of points.

**acekevin8412**

Well, my version gave +1 to WS and I so they'd at least basic Fire Warriors would be I3 WS3 and Shas'Vre would be I4 WS4.

**Jefffar**

So they are Guard instead of Tau.

**darkPrince010**

Well, considering currently the only diff between guard and Tau is 4+ sv vs 5+ save in exchange for WS2, I2, and a severe lack of versatility, that'd be a fine change by me.

As for the Beamblade idea, I'd say make it a Wargear choice (Restricting it somewhat so you don't spam CC Tau suits), and maybe make the Typhoon a Special Issue if you include that too.

**juraigamer**

Tau don't train for melee, with melee weapons, at all.

Why not give them pulse pistols? Str 5 in CC or something.

**JamesMclaren123**

I like the beam blade but only for Farsights body guard or battlesuits in a far sight army

**Jefffar**

Yeap, Pulse Pistols and a special rule allowing them to shoot people in the face with them instead of just pistol whipping.

That and Drones with Failsafe Detonators - that would be the ultimate for Tau Close Combat accessory right there. Instead of getting swept when they lose, they write off a drone, back up and blow it up in the assaulty unit's face.

Then they rally and volley fire the survivors at the start of their turn.

Yup, any assault unit that's still interested after all that deserves the chance to hit them again.

**darkPrince010**

Jefffar wrote:[Snip]Drones with Failsafe Detonators - that would be the ultimate for Tau Close Combat accessory right there. Instead of getting swept when they lose, they write off a drone, back up and blow it up in the assaulty unit's face.

This.

Honestly, this would be an amazing addition. It would keep the Tau non-offensive and CC oriented (After all, you'd have to enter CC planning on losing in order to pop the drone), but a pair of these tagged onto several FW squads might make weaker units like Guard think twice about charging in head-on.

**acekevin8412**

Drones in general should more utilized.
I worry that mounting heavy weapons on drones might violate the rule about no organic fire support, but new drones types like the detonator drone above would be useful. Also, what about if the shield drone, in addition to having a 4+ for itself, conferred a cover save to its unit like the KFF?

**darkPrince010**

Oh man, I like this thread more and more all the time!

The 4+ acting as a KFF would be awesome. It'd allow Fire Warriors to be a bit more out in the open, and would finally be a viable choice for suits as well (Since they could take the 4+ cover to avoid ID stuff).

Heck, I'd like to see more versatile utility drones: Maybe the ability to buy a seeker missile drone or a flechette discharger drone, either of which would really make drones a more common sight in Tau armies (Which makes sense according to the fluff)

**acekevin8412**

I can see the flechette drone, but how/why would you mount a seeker missile on a drone?

And I think the shield drone KFF should be a 5++ because a gun that shoots through cover, flamer/dragonfire, won't necessarily go through shields, and 4++ for a whole unit for ~15pts seems op.

**darkPrince010**

Dunno. Maybe the missile is the drone?

**Your Friend Doctor Robert**

Back on topic of the Beamblade, why not add in a whole new Tau Commander type; the Commanders under Farsight, or other ones who have similar opinions, and prefer close combat-kitting their Battlesuits? Call it a Shas'ku or something, give it WS 5 base, and Beamblades all around.

**darkPrince010**

I would again want to be sure it would be restricted to only the commander and his retinue, since having an entire army of power weapon-equipped units would be a bit much imo. However, I'd suggest that they would have cheaper shield generators and more expensive long-ranged weapons, to augment the assault-oriented mindset

**Jackster**

darkPrince010 wrote:I would again want to be sure it would be restricted to only the commander and his retinue, since having an entire army of power weapon-equipped units would be a bit much imo. However, I'd suggest that they would have cheaper shield generators and more expensive long-ranged weapons, to augment the assault-oriented mindset

Cause they totally didnt just have a codex full of PW armed units.

Though with beam sabres I think everyone would start using Gundam models for Crisis suits. Not that there is a problem with that!

**darkPrince010**

I guess it would be a bit much for Tau is what I'm saying...

I guess Rending would be a better option for Tau suits, so they'd be better in CC but not absolute boss at it.