SICON_Reaper;6591461 wrote: I am a Warhammer 40,000 fluff archaeologist. Which is to say that I have gone out and wasted a significant portion of my life and time looking at the most obscure, backwards, forgotten pieces of fluff for Warhammer 40k that exists.

Of those, the one that interests me most is the Men of Iron - the robotic race that existed during the Dark Age of Technology, prior to the age of strife. What you see here is the culmination of that years-long obsession.

The Men of Iron were a vast race that ran the ships, created the titans, designed the STC's and fought the alien wars, destroying the foes of mankind.

However, at some point they also went and took a good long read of "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream", and decided that Allied Mastercomputer was a wonderful figure to emulate.

What follows is my grand compilation of the fluff and history of the Men of Iron, their successors, and theories of their continued indirect and unintended influence on the Imperium's current state.

With no further ado, lets begin the massive infodump. Grab a shovel, because you're going to need it to get through all of this, and no good fluff archaeologist should be caught without one.

First, we have to establish the timeline. There's a lot of confusion concerning it. This is a very basic sketch, containing information relevant to the Men of Iron only:

8k BC: The God-Emperor of Man is born

12th Century AD: Emperor defeats the Void Dragon, seals him on Mars.

Current day - M15: Humanity, influenced by visions from the void dragon sealed upon Mars, begins their great expansion into the cosmos. The Men of Stone are created by Man, and take over much of the work.

M15 - M25: The Dark Age of Technology. The Men of Stone create the AI race, the Men of Iron, and spread across the galaxy. The Men of Iron are somehow corrupted and turn on mankind. A great war is waged. The Men of Stone are apparently driven to extinction. The Men of Iron are sealed or wiped out. The Navagators appear; arguably the first psykers, but without the uncontrolled insanity. This allows humanity to expand massively in a very short period of time. With the armies of the Men of Iron, they are able to wipe out many threats and colonize all over the galaxy.

M25: The Age of Strife. The Machine war is over. The Men of Iron have been defeated, but at great cost. Now, mankind doesn't know how to use the technology they've relied on. Many places regress to primitive technological levels. On top of this, Slaanesh will soon be born and psykers wildly appear across the galaxy, destroying civilizations that do not brutally put them down. In the chaos, much of what mankind has retained is destroyed.

M30: The Great Crusade Era: The Emperor conquers Terra, gathers the Tech Priests of Mars, and begins his push across the galaxy.

M31: The Horus Heresy: Most of the Techpriests of Mars, including almost all of the Legio Cybernetica, side with Horus. After their loss, the survivors flee to the eye of terror.

I have several sources for this. First, let's go with the basic story told a couple of times over. This comes from the Codex Adeptus Titanicus:


The following history - practically the fluff bible for Men of Iron, fleshes out the timeline more wholly and completely.

The Journal of Keeper Cripias



Dated in the year of our Emperor 993.M41
For seventy long years I have laboured as Master Finnias laboured before me, and Master Shadiel before him, through eight hundred and thirty six generations of Keepers of the Library Sanctus of Terra. It has been our endeavour, our life-long aim, to compile a history of the majesty of the Human Race from the archives which are our worship. In his benevolent wisdom, the Emperor has granted me the singular and great honour and pleasure of completing this sacred task in my own lifespan.
Through copious notes and periods of cogitation I have pieced together the history and pre-history of Mankind into the greatest antiquities of time. Here I have revealed my findings for the first time, for as it was in the time of the First Keeper, Solomon, our knowledge has passed by oratory and not written word. However, in these changing times there are none worthy to succeed me now, and so it is fit and rightful that I, the Last Keeper, Cripias, records our Great Works to these pages for eternity.
And so it was that in the First Age of Man, the Golden Age, there is the Emperor Unseen and unheralded he prepares the Old Earth for the coming of Mankind and he watches and he waits. He is joined by the First Men of the Golden Race, fine of limb and strong of mind, yet still the Emperor is content to wait in shadow. To watch and learn from Mankind, the Golden Race spreads across the face of Old Earth, multiplying and establishing Order and Civilisation on the anarchy of Nature. In time, the Second Men of the Stone Race appear, and in their wake come many miracles and marvels of technology that strengthen to Sone Men’s power, but are also harnessed by those of th Golden Race. Although physically inferior to the Golden Race, and not of philosophical temperament and disposition, the Stone Men have in them the conjurations of great artifices and mechanisms. In time, the Golden Race looks to the stars to expand their dominion. The Stone Race builds great machines of power that send both Men of Stone and Men of Gold into the Ether. However, once the burgeoning race of Mankind has taken its first steps into the greater cosmos, the Golden Race dwindles in influence through their dependence on the artifices of the Stone Race. This the Golden Age comes to an end and the Stone Men prevail.
Our calculations, from the most distant and archaic records, and through constellar comparison, have dated the end of the Golden Age at 20.000 years previous to our present time.
For the next 5.000 years, the Stone Race lives through the Dark Age of Technology. Little can be determined from the Dark Age of Technology, for the majority of existing records concerning that period are gathered in the Librarius Omnis of Mars, and none outside the highest ranks of the Adeptus Mechanicus can gain access past its most determined Guardians (Keeper Malrubius tried once, but to no avail. We have surmised that during the Dark Age of Technology, the Men of Ston create the Iron Men to help them in the building of their Great Empire. At first, the Iron Men are as servants, willing to do the bidding of their masters with no thoughts.
However, the Iron Men, as all creatures do, evolve and grow until they are the equal of the Stone Race and beside each other they set about conquering the galaxy. The Dark Age of Technology is an era of machines and artificial devices, used by the Stone Men, and later the Iron Men, in their endeavours. Many of the technical marvels that the Priesthood of Mars sustain can be traced to their origins in the Dark Age of Technology, and itt is at the end of this period that the great organisation know now as the Adeptus Mechanicus was founded. During the Dark Age of Technology, the austere ancestors of the Imperium’s Navis Nobilite are born, and through their unique prowess, mankind forges through the stars. Weapons of great destruction cow the aggression of alien enemies, pushing back the frontiers of Mankind’s dominions.
The end of the Dark Age of Technology is the most obscure region in mankind’s evolutionary tale. For whatever reasons and differences in ideology, the Stone Men and the Iron Men fell to warring with each other. The Iron Men are possessed of no Soul, an anathema to any true Man. The Stone Men in their final acts of self-preservation, annihilate the Iron Men who have turned from ally to foe, and even those of the Iron Race who retain their former loyalties ot theor one-time masters are destroyed in the fiery crucible of battle. Still the Emperor, in his eternal wisdom, awaits the moment to reveal the true path to Mankind’s destiny. Thus the start of the Age of Strife is heralded. The Age of Strife sees the collapse of the ancient Empire built by the Stone Men. Mankind is split asunder, there is no Race of Man, just warring factions contending with each other in the direst perils the galaxy could offer. Seeing humanity’s weakness, alien dominance grows in power oce again, the arms of the Stone Men left to ruin, the protection of the Iron Men destroyed in the last years of the Dark Age of Technology. For five millennia, the human race exists in the twilight of its former greatness, bickering and fighting for the scant resources to hand. With no guiding will, no manifest destiny of lordship, mankind is left in turmoil. Even Earth, the bedrock on which humanity’s Empire was founded is gripped in the throes of generation-long intercine war. The foul aliens who had been held back by the might of the Iron Men and the Stone Men surge forth from their havens and lairs, destroying mankind’s defences, killing or enslaving the Emperor’s wards. Mankind is engulfed by a plague of mutation, physical deviants and men possessed of psychic talents appear throughout the galaxy bringing more havoc with them. With no over-reaching authority, these lost souls and psykers sprawl unchecked across the human race. It is at this time that the Emperor reveals his true nature and sets about his plans of delivrance from anarchy.
For the last ten thousand years we have been in the glorious Age of the Imperium, the Reign of the Beneficent Emperor of Mankind. Using his vast intellect and knowledge of ages past, the Emperor creates a race of warriors to quell the warring factions on Earth, renaming our Homeworld Terra and affirming its place as the centre of the known galaxy. Having established ruleship over Mankind’s birthworld, the Emperor sets about to the re-creation of Mankind’s righteous fate. With his Legions of Space Marines, the Emperor leads the Great Crusade of Reconquest. It is a long and arduous war, but world after world, seing in the Emperor the rightful rule of mankind, falls to his service. The Space Marines, now numbered in their many thousands, establish outposts in the far reaches of the galaxy and from these bases on asteroids and moons and planet, launch forays into the darkness, bringing the Light and Word of the Emperor with them. Through this turmoil – the base treachery of the Warmaster and sacrifice of the Emperor, the contact with the noble offices of the Priesthood of Mars, the establishment of the Navis Nobilite and other noteworthy assemblages that we now take for granted as well as the purges of mutants and psykers – the Imperium is forged in blood and death, on a thousand thousand worlds the rightful and just rule of the Emperor is reasserted.
And so it is, ten thousand years since the Great Crusade we are able to live under the guiding Light of the Emperor, we have the guns of the Imperial Navy, Imperial Guard and Adeptus Astartes, to guard against betrayal and foul aliens.
But the stories do not end there. For in our research, the Keepers of the Library Sanctus on Terra have uncovered many forgotten secrets, hidden lore, tales of treachery and heroism. Although we have not become, by no means, omniscient, we know many things that should not be known. For example, who few outside of this stone chamber have learned of the Betrayal of Luther, the Curse of the Red Thirst, the dark shrouded founding of the Sisterhood. Who has recited such tales of woe as can be found in the Legacies of Gathalamor, the unseen mysteries concering the origins of the Space Marines Legions, the dark perils that await those who passed beyond the Gates of Varl, the names of the sinister architects of the Ymga Monolith.

(From the 3rd Edition Codex)

This is the only description of the Men of Stone we ever get, although there are references to them during the comic I'll be posting later.

This raises a great mystery: Who were the Men of Stone?

It seems to me there are three possibilities:
1: They were AI created by man.
2: They were human uploads
3: They were Cyborgs

Of the three, although the term could be a blanket term referring to all of them, I believe the first to be most likely.

Take this into consideration.

"Although physically inferior to the Golden Race, and not of philosophical temperament and disposition, the Stone Men have in them the conjurations of great artifices and mechanisms. "

This indicates that they are probably not fully sentient in the way humans are, but are extremely good at building machines. These are likely the first generation of robots and Artificial Intelligence created by human beings which run their ships and empire.

This doesn't rule out human uploads or cyborgs, but the indications are strongly in favor of their being first generation AI.

So over the course of thousands of years, the Men of Stone eventually eclipse humanity and take over. In turn, they create the Men of Iron.

So who are the Men of Iron?

The Men of Iron are second generation AI. In other words, Artifical Intelligence created by the Men of Stone. In the beginning, they were primitive helpers to the Men of Stone, but grew to be as great or greater.

Eventually they rebelled against both of their masters - the Men of Stone, and humanity.

Some were sealed away. Others were destroyed. The Men of Stone were apparently driven to extinction, or locked away with their creations. Their eventual fate is unknown, other than to say that they certainly no longer exist.

Quite a big of technology dates back to this point. The Titans certainly do.





These Titans are not merely newly created devices. Their service directly extends back way before the beginning of the Imperium.









Take careful note of its appearance. The Titans date directly back to the Dark Age of Technology. They are the legacy of that era. They are the same weapons that mankind used to conquer the galaxy at that time - the only difference being that these are directed by men, rather than AI.

What else dates back to this era? The Standard Template Construct blueprints and factories. The timeline above indicates that this was designed by the Men of Stone, and perhaps some of it by the Men of Iron. Indeed, STC's existed to produce men of Iron. I'll show a transcript from Gaunts Ghosts, First and only in a bit to talk about it.

But first, what else dates back to this time? Although they have an obscure portrayal in the fluff, the Imperial Robots do. Here, take a look at them.



Again, take careful note of their appearance. These aren't all of them or close-up detailed images but I'm not going to flood this with pictures of them. Needless to say, most or all of them look a lot like miniature titans.

Although it's possible that the Legio Cybernetica created original designs based on the Titans, its unlikely for three reasons. One, The Imperium and the Adeptus Mechanicus are obsessed with STC blueprints, so these are likely created from already existing blueprints. Anything else would be Heresy. Two, we know that the Men of Iron used infantry sized robots in addition to Titans and the like. (This is shown in the comic I will be posting.)

The third reason is contained in the fluff below for the Legio Cybernetica.

IMPERIAL ROBOTS
The command bunker had been under fire for more than three hours. Each time a shell exploded overhead a fine layer of dust fell from the ceiling and drifted through the bob-map. It interfered with the mechanism, and the picture flickered continuously. Chavez sighed. He had long since decided that the situation was critical. He grinned at the Adeptus Mechanicus technician huddled behind a stack of ammunition boxes.
"Not like the training rituals, is it?"
Another shell burst overhead, and the lights went out. The shoulder light in Chavez's armour came on automatically.
"Damn. That was close." Chavez turned the holo-map on again. The Orks were closer than ever. Eight-to-one odds were the stuff of Chapter history, unless you had to face them.
"Where's our support? Anything?"
The Brother-Sergeant at the commnet terminal shook his head. "Three Dreadnoughts a moment ago, but they stopped transmitting. No telemetry. They're dead, Brother-Captain."
"Time to leave. Up to the ridge. Set the destruct charges, Brother. We leave nothing for those Orks. You..." Chavez pointed at the adept. "You come with me. We'll see what those damn machines can do..."
The technician scrambled to his feet and followed Chavez up the access tunnel. They came out in a small copse at the base of the hill. Four large machines stood just inside the tree-line.
The comninet in Chavez's ear was a constant chatter of reports and casualty lists. Chavez checked his bolter and slapped home afresh magazine. "I don't like using machines to do a Marine's job, but I'm down to less than a demi-company. Get them punched, or programmed or whatever mumbo-jumbo you use. Pray if you must."
"Sir. Lord. Captain. The Rite of Battleprep is a delicate ceremony. I must have time to offer the libations and the sweetmeats. I must cast the runes of Robotics. I must-glmpfff! The adept fell silent as Chavez placed a bolt pistol under his chin.
"You must... understand what is about to happen. Either I will kill you, the Orks will kill you slowly, or your damned Robots will kill the Orks. Am I making sense?"
"Yes." The adept was already working on his precious machines. "Yes."
"Good. Five from now I want those things in supporting positions." Chavez was running up towards the ridge. The Brother-Sergeant followed him. A circle of smoke and dust popped out of the tunnel and rolled across the valley, keeping its shape all the way. The bunker's demolition charges had done their work.
As Chavez reached the ridge the first Robot began the same climb. The explosions rocked the hill and showered earth on the Marine positions, but help was coming...
THE LEGIO CYBERNETICA
The Adeptus Mechanicus is divided into many sub-branches and divisions. Each specialises in one of the myriad areas of the technical arcana. The Legio Cybernetica is one of the oldest parts of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Its records stretch back almost unbroken to the very first days of the Imperium and, it's assumed, to the times before the Imperium. The Legio has a long history, and its members regard themselves as an elite.
The Legio is responsible for the care and construction of all Robots throughout the Imperium. Robots may be used by all kinds of Army and Marine forces, but they are always under the Legio's final control. Indeed, many of the Adepts of the Legio have been killed while taking part in military operations. The Legio continues to serve, aware of its value as a fighting force, even in the face of 90% plus casualties.
The Legio is organised into several thousand cohorts, although only a percentage of these is ever active at any one time. Each cohort is in turn organised into maniples of three, four or five Robots plus a Legion tech-adept. The number of maniples in a cohort varies, but is rarely more than 100. However, a cohort is usually spread across an entire Marine force of several Chapters or a single Army. Battles involving more than 4 or 5 maniples are rare. This is not to say that they have never occurred - during the Horus Heresy in particular large numbers of Robots were committed by both sides in an effort to minimise human casualties until a decisive final battle could be fought.
Each maniple is virtually a self-contained unit. The (typically) four units are managed on the battlefield by a single tech-adept. He has little more to do than give the Robot's their final programs and then monitor their progress. He is, however, also charged with making sure that a damaged Robot (which could be dangerous to its own side) is destroyed as quickly as possible. Each Robot carries a self-destruct system which can be detonated by remote control should its programming fail in some way. Although rarely present on the battlefield (if they can help it) there are also a number of other, lesser tech-adepts who perform all maintenance and repair functions for the maniple. Their services are also highly sought after for other purposes. It is said that a tech-adept of the Legio is worth his weight in spares and can repair virtually any item of Imperial equipment.
Legio cohorts are occasionally attached to campaigning Marine Chapters, such as during Operation Carthage (the Second Pacification of Isstvan V). When the Desert Lions Chapter took the planet's defence forts they were preceded by a complete Legio Cohort of Robots. The Robots had been programmed to advance in an apparently mindless fashion, and proved easy targets for the defenders. However, the Desert Lions used the opportunity to map out the defenders' fire-plans and blind spots. In the Lions' ensuing assault only seven Marines were lost.
All the surviving Robots were inducted into the Chapter as honorary members as a mark of respect.
The Inquisition has also put Cohorts of the Legio to good use. Robots are, by their very natures, utterly incorruptible. Their preprogrammed, non-biological natures make them the perfect troops to use against mutants and other contaminated populations. The terror value of Robots when used against unprepared and underarmed troops has not gone unnoticed by the Inquisition. This, combined with their unflagging loyalty, has made them valued additions to the Inquisition's armoury. Cohorts attached to the Inquisition are usually staffed by technician-Inquisitors rather than Legio Adepts. Robots may be pure and incorruptible; men are not.
This was proven during the Horus Heresy, when many Legio Cohorts rebelled under the leadership of Warmaster Horns. The Cohorts had been placed under the Warmaster's command in preparation for a new crusade. When Horus commanded his forces to move against the Emperor, the Legio Cohorts at his disposal were among those to obey. In the subsequent fighting many more of the Adeptus Mechanicus joined Horus and his rebels, but this did not alter the fact that parts of the Legio had been the first to declare for the Warmaster. Following the defeat of the Heresy and the banishment of the Traitor Legions, the dishonoured Legio Cohorts also fled into the Eye of Terror, where they remain to this day.
Since the defeat of Horus the Legio Cybernetica has pledged itself anew to the Imperium. Its members now take binding oaths of loyalty more terrible than any Marine Chapter oaths. Over the millennia they have regained the respect and admiration of the rest of the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Imperial Guard, and the Adeptus Astartes.
Legio maniples require less transport space than standard military units (Robots can be carried in open space without harm), less life support and food (Robots neither eat nor drink) and less battlefield support (Robots usually carry their own heavy weapons). Many Robots use standard armaments, reducing the need for specialised supplies, and can interchange parts with Dreadnoughts. All this makes them extremely popular with practical military commanders.
Some of the older Cybernetica cohorts claim that their Robotic troops date, in part at least, back to the First Crusade of the Imperium and earlier. These claims may have some validity, as Robots are often cannibalised to provide parts for their damaged brethren. Given the lifespans of Imperial technologies when maintained, such claims become reasonable. It is indeed possible that one Robot's leg, or Power Field or cortex has been in almost constant use for more than ten thousand years.
Like a Dreadnought, a Robot is the product of the many advanced technologies which have produced its armoured shell, its artificial muscle and nerve bundles, its cortex, power plant, weapons control systems, equipment interfaces and cortex. The Mechanicus Weapon-shops turn out many Robots to the age-old designs held in the memory banks. Castellan and Crusader pattern Robots, for example, are known to have fought on both sides during the Horns Heresy. The designs have remained virtually unchanged since that time, with perhaps only minor cosmetic variations.
Many Robot components are identical (or nearly so) to Dreadnought parts. This compatibility simplifies many supply and repair problems. Legio cohorts have, for example, been cannibalised out of existence to provide spares for Dreadnought suits! In return Legio Cybernetica adepts have not been averse to dismantling Dreadnought suits - sometimes even killing the pilot in the process - when making battlefield repairs.
What makes a Robot different from an unoccupied Dreadnought suit is its cortex. This is an artificial brain of sorts, which is constructed from artificial proteins and enzymes. This cortex is imprinted with simple maintenance and movement routines - a rudimentary 'mind'. These enable the Robot to obey simple instructions ("Open the Weapon Bay Door, Please... Move Ahead to the Holding Area" etc) when away from the battlefield. These 'firmware' routines (so called because they are 'wired in' software) are often patterned after living creatures, and a Robot may develop a dog-like devotion to its technician-master.
Before a battle the firmware routines are overlaid and replaced by the Robot's combat wetware (ie the software of a protein computer). This new cortex program, which can be changed for every battle, defines, for example, how and when the Robot is to fire its weapons or detonate its self-destruct charges.
Each piece of wetware is held in a small slice of bioplastic, about the same size as a credit card. Many warriors take these from 'dead' robots, believing that them to hold the soul and courage of the robot. When kept in a medicine pouch some of the robot's bravery passes into the warrior; even some Marine Chapters have been known to follow this tradition.
Without its cortex a Robot is as helpless as a bolter without a Marine. It can do nothing other than take whatever punishment is meted out to it. With its cortex fully programmed, however, a Robot can prove itself the equal of many other creatures on the battlefield.

Didn't catch it? Here it is again.

"Some of the older Cybernetica cohorts claim that their Robotic troops date, in part at least, back to the First Crusade of the Imperium and earlier. These claims may have some validity, as Robots are often cannibalised to provide parts for their damaged brethren. Given the lifespans of Imperial technologies when maintained, such claims become reasonable. It is indeed possible that one Robot's leg, or Power Field or cortex has been in almost constant use for more than ten thousand years."

Indeed, this also indicates that dreadnoughts may have been based off of the Imperial Robots, considering that the parts are interchangable. This wouldn't be a surprise - all of the Imperium's technology is modified versions of STC technology. The Land Raider is a variant of a tractor, for instance. Terminator armor is heavy-duty work armor modified for combat. It should surprise no one that the Imperial Robots, which date back to before the Age of the Imperium (And thus back to the DAoT, since basically no one was designing anything during the AoS) were later modified to become the Imperium's combat walkers such as Sentinels and Dreadnoughts.

Hell, this is explicitly stated in the description for the Contemptor Dreadnought.

The Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought was once a mainstay of the armoured might of the Astartes Legions of old. Larger and stronger than standard pattern Dreadnoughts, the Contemptor’s systems featured many examples of techno-arcana steeped in the sacred mysteries of the Legio Cybernetica. Some chapters still boast these war relics amongst their ranks, and whenever the Contemptor takes to the field of battle, it is an echo of the power of ancient days.

So what was their purpose? What were they used for during the Age of Strife? A lot of stuff the Imperium uses is re-purposed peacetime technology. But I personally think that a significant portion of it was actually designed for combat originally. Why? First, look at them. They look exactly like downsized titans, which we KNOW were major war machines of the Dark Age of Technology. They use similar weapons, have very similar builds, and the faces look very similar.

A visual description is also given in the Novel Nemesis:

Like many of the Cybernetica, Rei eschewed the gross cyborg augmentations of
his colleagues in the Mechanicum in favour of subtle enhancements that did not
disfigure or dilute his outwardly human aspect; but those who knew Rei knew that
whatever humanity he did show was rare and fleeting.
Behind him, moving with fluidity, his bodyguards were a three-unit maniple of
modified Crusader-class robots. Painted as works of art, each insect-like machine
was a stripped-down variant of its battlefield standard, armed with a discreetly
sheathed power-rapier and a lasgun. A fourth mechanical, this one custom-built to
resemble a female form rendered in polished chrome, walked at his side and served
as his aide.
No one asked questions about loyalty when Rei was nearby. His machines could
hear a whisper among a roaring crowd, and those who dared to suggest aloud that Rei
was anything less than the Emperor’s obedient servant lived to regret it."

The second calls back to what I've led up to for a while. It's time to post some of the most recent depictions of the Men of Iron.

First, the excerpt from the Gaunt's Ghost Novel, First and Only:

From Gaunt's Ghosts, "First and Only". (This will skip around a bit, since it is only concerned with the Iron Men)

"To find a dedicated Constructor intact was a find made once a generation, a find from which the entire Imperium benefited.
But to find one like this intact was surely without precedent. All of the speculation had been correct. Long ago, thousands of years before Chaos had overwhelmed it, Menazoid Epsilon had been an arsenal world, manufacturing the ultimate weapon known to those lost ages. The secrets of its process and purpose were contained within those million and half algorithms etched into the wide floor.
The Men of Iron. A rumour so old it was a myth, and myth from the oldest times, before the Age of Strife, from the Dark Age of Technology, when mankind had reached a state of glory as the masters of a techno-automatic Empire, the race that had perfected the Standard Template Construct. They created the Men of Iron, mechanical beings of power and sentience but no human soul. Heretical devices in the eyes of the Imperium. War with the self-aware Men of Iron had led to the fall of that distant Empire and, if the old, deeply arcane records Heldane had been privy to were correct, that was why the Imperium had outlawed any soulless mechanical intelligence. But as servants, implacable warriors - what could not be achieved with Men of Iron at your side?
And here, at the untouched heart of the ancient arsenal world, was the STC system to make such Men of Iron."

"There was more! Heldane broadened his focus and took in the walls of the chamber for the first time. At floor level, all around, were alcoves screened by metal grilles. Behind them, as still and silent as terracotta statues guarding a royal tomb, stood phalanxes of Iron Men. Hundreds, hundreds of hundreds, ranked back in symmetrical rows into the shadows of the alcove. Each stood far taller than a man, faces like sightless skulls of burnished steel, the sinews and arteries of their bodies formed from cable and wire encased in anatomical plate-sections of lustreless alloy. They slept, waiting the command to awaken, waiting to receive orders, waiting to ignite the great device once more and multiply their forces again."

Gaunt looked at die great machine. Amber lights were flicking to life on a panel on its flank. In death, the last Crusader had been blown back against the main activation grid. Old technologies were grinding into life. Smoke, steam perhaps, vented from cowlings near the floor. Processes moved and turned and murmured in the device.
There was another noise too. A shuffling.
Gaunt turned slowly. Behind the dark grilles in the alcoves, metal limbs were beginning to flex and uncurl. As he watched, eyes lit up in dead sockets. Blue. Their light was blue, cold, eternal. Somehow, it was the most appalling colour Gaunt had ever seen. They were waking. As their creator awoke, they awoke too.
Gaunt stared at them for a long, breathless moment, his heart pounding. He looked at them until he had lost count of
the igniting blue eyes. Some began to jerk forward and slam against the grilles, rattling and shaking them. Metal hands clawed at metal bars. There were voices now too. Chattering, just at the edge of hearing. Codes and protocols and streams of binary numbers. The Iron Men hummed as they woke.
Gaunt looked back at the STC. 'Rawne!'

On the far side of the chamber, a section of the ancient grille finally gave way. Iron Men stumbled forward out of their alcove, their metal feet crunching over the fallen grille sheet. All around, their companions rattled and shook at their pens, eyes burning like the blue-hot backwash of missile tubes, murmuring their sonorous hum.
The metal skeletons spilling out of the cage began to advance across the chamber, bleary and undirected. Mkoll, fixing the last set of charges to the side of the vibrating STC, looked round in horror at their jerking advance.

A new-born Man of Iron. The first to be produced by the STC after its long slumber. As soon as it appeared, the others, those loosed and those still caged, began keening, in a long, continuous, piteous wail that was at once a human shriek and a rapid broadcast of machine code sequences.
There was something wrong with the new-born. It was malformed, grotesque compared to the perfect anatomical symmetry of the other Iron Men. A good head taller, it was hunched, blackened, one arm far longer than the over, draped and massive, the other hideously vestigial and twisted. Corrupt horns sprouted from its over-long skull and its eyes shone a deadened yellow. Oil like stringy pus wept from the eye sockets. It shambled, unsteady. Its exposed teeth and jaws clacked and mashed idiotically.
Dorden howled out something about Gaunt being right, but Gaunt was already moving and not listening. He dove across the chamber at full stretch and tackled the coughing Mkoll onto the floor a second before the new-born's larger arm sliced through the space the stealther had previously occupied.
The respite was brief. Rolling off Mkoll and trying to pull him up, Gaunt saw the new-born turn to address them again, its jaw champing mindlessly. Behind it, in the reeking smoke of the hatchway, a second new-born was already emerging.

Two las-rounds punched into the new-born and made it stagger backwards. Caffran was trying his best, but the dully reflective carapace of the new-born shrugged off all but the kinetic force of the shots.
It struck at Gaunt and Mkoll again, but the commissar managed to roll himself and the scout out of the way. Its great metal daw sparked against the algorithm-inscribed floor, incising an alteration to the calculations that was permanent and insane.
Gaunt struggled to drag Mkoll away from the shambling metal thing, cursing out loud. In a second, Dorden and Bragg were with him, easing his efforts, pulling Mkoll upright.
The unexpected blow smashed Gaunt off his feet. The newborn had reached out a glancing blow and taken a chunk of cloth and flesh out of his back. How could it-Gaunt rolled and looked up. The new-born's massive fore-limb had grown, articulating out on extending metallic callipers, forming new pistons and extruded pulleys as it mor-phed its mechanical structure.
The monstrous thing struck at him again. The commissar flopped left to dodge and then right to dodge again. The metal claw cracked into the floor on either side of him.
Rawne, Larkin and Cafrran sprang in. Caffran tried to shoot at close range but Larkin got in his way, capering and shouting to distract the machine. A second later, Larkin was also sent flying by a backhanded swipe.
Rawne hadn't had time to load another barbed round into his lance, so he used it like an axe, swinging the bayonet blade so that it reverberated against the creature's iron skull. Cable-sinews sheared and the new-born's head was knocked crooked.

The machine-being swung round with its massive fighting limb and smacked Rawne away, extending its reach to at least five metres. Gaunt dived across the floor and came up holding Rawne's barb-lance. He scythed down with it and smashed the Iron Man's limb off at the second elbow, cutting through the increasingly diminished girth of the extending limb.
Then Gaunt plunged the weapon, point first, into the new-born's face. The blade came free in an explosion of oil and ichor-like milky fluid.
The monstrosity fell back, cold and stiff, the light dying in its eyes.
By then, six new demented new-borns had spilled from the STC's hatch. Behind them, forty or more of the Iron Men had burst from their cages and were thumping forward. The others rattled their pens and began to howl.
'Now! Now we're fething leaving!' Gaunt yelled.

These ones resemble metal skeletons. Very Necron-like, which is not surprising since the dreams of the Void Dragon influenced their creation. These are apparently the "infantry" of the Iron Men's era. But they are not alone.

This comic presents the only known visual depiction we have of the Men of Iron, ever. Prepare to be surprised.

SICON_Reaper;6591512 wrote:









Now aside from this being a very good story, you may have noticed something.

They all looked a HELL of a lot like the Imperial Robots, and the Titans (And a bit like Necrons, but that's an aside). These are not later constructs. This is not something the Imperium has modified in any way. These are robotic drones, controlled by an Man of Iron AI, created in the 20k era, DURING the Dark Age of Technology. (Revision: Not the Age of Strife; the DAoT) Very likely, they were created by STC patterns that existed at the time.

And they look a whole lot like the Imperial Robots. A LOT like them.

To wave that off as a coincidence would be pretty foolish. One of them looks practically identical to the Crusader pattern Robots, for instance, which itself looks a hell of a lot like the Titans. Another one IS a Castellian class Imperial Robot. They are visually identical.

But that isn't all this comic teaches us. It also shows us that there was only one AI in there. It was alone, directing all of those drones. Thus, the individual bodies were not the Men of Iron - the AI was. Moreover, it could move from where it was into other bodies - it indicates that it could reside in Battleships and Titans.

This is important, because it tells us a great deal about the Men of Iron. First and most important, that they were the AI, not the drones. They simply directed them.

This is reinforced in the Gaunt's Ghosts novel. The drones don't awaken until the STC does, and when they do they're just as corrupt as the AI is.

One additional note is that the comic reminds us that the Men of Iron were created by the Men of Stone instead of humanity. The AI references "it's creators" as something distinct from humans.

So how did they wage war?

Well, indications from the above fluff gives us the following information:
The military forces of the 20k era included the Titans, the predecessors of the Imperial Robots, and the Skeleton-Drones. They had their own warships. Presumably, some of the oldest combat STC designs date back to this era, such as the Baneblade.

The "Lonely" AI above indicates that it can possess current technology and live in it, taking control of it. It seems likely that this was basically exactly what they did.

They mass produced armies, ships, vehicles, titans, and "infantry", and those armies and fleets were directed by the Men of Stone and the Men of Iron in combat.

The exact tactics are unknown. But It's pretty reasonable to think that the Men of Iron didn't have a terribly tough time killing everything in their way. If the Gaunt's Ghosts excerpt is any indication, a single STC can pump out dozens of infantry-level soldiers every minute. Dozens.

Multiply that by the scale of the civilization that existed at the time and consider that every colony explicitly possessed their own titan legion. Sometimes several dozen. And then consider that they operated on this level for almost 10,000 years.

It's no surprise that they considered the alien threats they encountered trivial. They had well-nigh infinite swarms of vastly superhuman robots, controlled by AI well beyond human intelligence, backed by truly obscene firepower.

So that brings us to another question: Why did they fall?

There are two likely culprits. Chaos and the Void Dragon.

For many reasons, I consider the Void Dragon to be the most likely. However, lets start with Chaos.



I'm bringing this up mostly for the purpose of redundancy, but the Chaos Androids, a truly ancient piece of fluff even more obscure than the Dark Age of Technology, show that machines can be corrupted by chaos. However, it takes WILLING action to do so.

Chaos Androids are robots created by Chaos Squats (Yes, those actually existed), with a Daemon then bound into them. The Daemon takes control of the body, but remains under the control of the person who put them there. This is essentially a robot daemonhost.

As the Gaunt's Ghost example shows, this is still possible in current fluff. Robots remain incorruptible unless you purposefully act to possess them with Daemons, as the chaos forces on that world almost certainly did.

The end of the Dark Age of Technology was an era where mankind didn't know anything at all about the Warp, other than that it was a fast way to get from point A to point B. However, it was still growing turbulent. Navigators, the first psykers to show themselves - showed up solidly within the Dark Age of Technology era.

The AI had to be curious about this. It might have been partially ignorant, but it probably wasn't totally ignorant - and the Men of Iron were a lot smarter than human beings.

There's no real fluff support for this hypothesis, which is why I don't support it myself. However, it would explain a lot if the Men of Iron, researching the increasingly turbulent warp during the end of the DAoT, ended up getting possessed by Daemons for "research" purposes.

The fluff indicates that not all Men of Iron turned on their creators. The descriptions would be consistent with a chaos corruption altering the AI during a time when Chaos Corruption wasn't fully understood.

However, the AI we see in the comic doesn't show signs of being possessed by a Daemon. He just seems like a dick.

Which brings me to my second theory. The Void Dragon.

The Emperor imprisoned the Void Dragon on Mars in the 12th Century. To save time arguing and clarifying points, I'm going to post a chapter from the novel Mechanicum here. Be warned, this is a newer book and there are massive spoilers here.

DALIA SMELLED THE hot, dry air of another world, the spiced fragrances drifting from lands far away and countries as yet undiscovered. The cavern beneath the Noctis Labyrinthus faded from view, the silver lines that defied rational perception easing into obscurity and replaced with the soft curves of desert dunes and the vast expanse of a breathtakingly beautiful azure sky.
A ferocious heat enveloped her and she gasped as it hit her like an opened blast furnace. The vista was at once strange and familiar to her, and her fear faded as she suddenly understood where and when she was.
She stood on the baking sands of a high dune, looking over a wide river valley where a great city of sun-bleached stone reared up on a plateau of dark rock. From the gates of the city marched a solemn procession of women in white, bearing a silk-veiled litter of gold and jade.
‘You know where you are?’ said a voice behind her and she turned to see Adept Semyon.
‘I think so,’ said Dalia. ‘This is Old Earth. Before Unification.’
Semyon nodded. ‘Long before Unification. The tribes of men are still divided and know nothing of the glories and perils beyond their world.’
‘And what is that city over there?’ asked Dalia.
‘Still thinking in such literal terms, girl,’ chuckled Semyon. ‘We are still in the cave of the Dragon. All this is a manipulation of your mind’s perception centres by the book to show you what needs to be shown. But in answer to your question, the city is called Cyrene and this is a representation of a land once known as Libya. It is an ancient land, though the people you see before you are far from the first to settle here. The Phoenicians came here first, men the Grekans, then the Romans, and finally the Arabii. Well, not finally, but that’s who rules now.’
‘And when are we?’
‘Ah, well, the text isn’t clear, though I believe this happened some time in either the eleventh or twelfth century.’
‘So long ago.’
‘A long time by anyone’s reckoning,’ agreed Semyon. ‘Save perhaps his.’
‘I don’t understand,’ said Dalia. ‘Who are you talking about?’
‘Never mind. You’ll understand soon enough.’
Dalia fought down her annoyance at Semyon’s cryptic answers and said, ‘So we’re not really here and this is just what’s in the book?’
‘Now you begin to understand.’
‘So who are those women?’ asked Dalia, pointing towards the procession as it made its way down a road of hard-packed earth towards a long scar in the ground from which drifted a mephitic fog.
‘They are the handmaidens of the King of Cyrene’s daughter, Cleodolinda, and they are taking her to her death. Within that wound in the earth dwells the Dragon, a fearsome creature recently awoken after a great war with its kin, which seeks refuge on this world to feed and regain its strength.’
‘The Dragon.’
‘Yes, the Dragon,’ agreed Semyon. ‘It has slain all the knights of the city and demands the sacrifice of a beautiful maiden every day. It feasts on their terror, growing stronger with each feeding, but all the young girls of Cyrene are dead. The king’s daughter alone remains, and now she goes to her death.’
‘Can’t we do anything?’
Semyon sighed. ‘Can you not grasp that this has already happened, girl? This is ancient history we are watching, the birth of a legend that will echo down through the ages in one form or another for all time. Look!’
Dalia followed Semyon’s pointing digit and saw a lone warrior knight in golden armour and a scarlet-plumed helmet riding towards the procession of women on a mighty charger of midnight black. He carried a tall lance of purest silver, from which flew a long red and white banner depicting a soaring eagle grasping a bolt of lightning.
‘Who is that?’ asked Dalia, though she already knew.
‘At this point in time, he is known as a soldier of the Emperor Diocletian, one who has risen to high honour in the army and who is passing through Libya to join his men.’
Dalia almost wept at the sight of the knight, a being of a fairer presence than any she had seen and one whose wondrous power was undimmed by the passage of years.
The knight spurred his horse and swiftly overtook the procession, riding towards the dark scar in the earth. No sooner had he halted his mount and set his shield upon his arm than the Dragon surged from its lair, roaring with a sound louder than thunder.
Dalia’s hands flew to her mouth and she cried out as she saw the Dragon’s monstrous form. In shape it was half crawling beast, half loathsome bird, its scaled head immense and its tail twenty metres long. Its terrible winged body was covered with scales, so strong and bright and smooth that they were like a knight’s armour.
The light of devoured stars shone at its breast and malignant fire burned in its eyes.
The warrior knight leapt to meet the Dragon, striking the monster with his lance, but its scales were so hard that the weapon broke into a thousand pieces. From the back of his rearing horse, the warrior smote the dragon with his sword, but the beast struck at him with talons like scythe blades. The warrior’s armour split open and Dalia saw blood pouring down his leg in a bright stream.
The Dragon towered over its foe, dealing him fearful blows, but the knight caught them upon his shield and thrust his sword against the Dragon’s belly. The scales of the beast were like steel plates, rippling like liquid mercury as they withstood the knight’s every attack. Then the Dragon, infuriated by the thrust, lashed itself against the knight and his horse, and cast lightning upon him from its eyes. The knight’s helmet was torn from him and Dalia saw his face shine out from the battle, pale, lit by some radiance that shone from within. As he thrust at the Dragon, that radiance grew in power, so that at last it was like the light of a newborn sun.
The Dragon looped itself around the knight, clawing and biting at his armour and roaring in triumph. Then, as though the thought had come from the warrior, Dalia saw that, no matter how the Dragon writhed, it sought always to protect one place in its body, a place beneath its left wing.
‘Strike, warrior, strike!’ she urged.
As if hearing her words, the knight bent downward and lunged forward, thrusting his sword with a mighty bellow into the Dragon’s body.
The creature gave out a deafening roar that shook stones from the city walls and the burning radiance in its breast was extinguished. Its grasp upon the knight loosened and the lightning faded from its eyes as the great beast fell to the ground.
Perceiving that the Dragon was helpless, though not dead, the knight untied the long white banner from his shattered lance and bound it around the neck of the monster.
With the Dragon subdued, the knight turned to the astounded handmaidens and the people of the city, who streamed from its gates in a riot of adulation. The knight raised a hand to quiet them, and such was his presence and radiance that all who beheld him fell silent.
‘The Dragon is defeated!’ cried the warrior. ‘But it is beyond even my power to destroy, so I shall drag it in fetters from this place and bind it deep in the darkness, where it will remain until the end of all things.’
So saying, the knight rode off with the Dragon bound behind him, leaving the scene behind him as immobile as a painting.
The image of the city and the desert were frozen in time, and Dalia turned to Semyon. ‘Is that all of it?’
‘It’s all the Dragon remembers of it, yes,’ said Semyon. ‘Or at least a version of its memories. It’s hard to tell what’s real and what’s not sometimes. I listen to its impotent roars of hatred as it watches from its gaol on Mars and write what comes out, the Emperor ‘slaying’ the Dragon of Mars… the grand lie of the red planet and the truth that would shake the galaxy if it were known. But truth, as are all things, is a moving target. What of this is real and what is fantasy… well, who can tell?’
Dalia looked towards the horizon over which the knight had vanished. ‘Then that was?’
‘The Emperor? Yes,’ said Semyon, turning and walking away as the reality of the desert landscape began to unweave. ‘He brought the defeated Dragon to Mars and bound it beneath the Noctis Labyrinthus.’
‘But why?’
‘The Emperor sees things we do not,’ said Semyon. ‘He knows the future and he guides us towards it. A nudge here, seeding a prepared prophecy of his coming there, the beginnings of the transhumanist movement, the push from humanity’s understanding of science to its mastery… all of it by his design, working towards one glorious union in the future where the forges of Mars would perceive the Emperor as the divinity for whom they had been waiting for centuries.’
‘You mean the Emperor orchestrated the evolution of the Mechanicum?’
‘Of course,’ said Semyon. ‘He knew that one day he would need such a mighty organisation to serve him, and from the Dragon’s dreams came the first machines of the priests of Mars. Without the Dragon there would have been no Mechanicum, and without the Mechanicum, the Emperor’s grand dream of a united galaxy for Humanity would have withered on the vine.’
Dalia tried to grasp the unimaginable scale of the Emperor’s designs, the clarity of a vision that could set schemes in motion that would not come to fruition for over twenty thousand years. It was simply staggering that anyone, even the Emperor, could have so carefully and precisely orchestrated the destiny of so many with such skill and cold ruthlessness.
The scale of the deception was beyond measure and the callousness of it took her breath away. To lie to so many people, to twist the destiny of a planet to suit one man’s aims, even a being as lofty as the Emperor, was a crime of such monstrous proportions that Dalia’s mind shied away from that awful calumny.
‘If the truth of this became known,’ breathed Dalia. ‘It would tear the Mechanicum apart.’
Semyon shook his head as the last vestiges of the sands of Libya faded away to be replaced with darkness all around them. ‘Not just the Mechanicum, but the Imperium too,’ he said. ‘I know this knowledge is a terrible burden to bear, but the Treaty of Olympus bound the fates of both Throne and Forge together in a union that must never be undone. Neither can survive without the other, but should this become known, then those who hold truth sacred above all else will not see that, they will only see the righteousness of their cause. In any case, the Mechanicum is already tearing itself apart, but the horrors unleashed by the Warmaster’s betrayal will be as nothing if Mars and Terra make war upon one another.’
Semyon fixed Dalia with a gaze of such pity that she shuddered. ‘But it is the duty of the Guardians of the Dragon, souls chosen by the Emperor, to ensure that such a thing does not happen.’
‘You keep the Dragon bound?’ asked Dalia as she began to perceive faint outlines of her surroundings reestablishing themselves.
‘No, the Dragon is bound by chains far stronger than one such as I could devise. The Guardians simply maintain what the Emperor wrought,’ explained Semyon. ‘He knew that one day the Dragon’s lost children would seek its resting place and we are here to ensure that they do not find it.’
‘You said ‘we’, but I’m no Guardian,’ said Dalia warily.
‘You have not guessed why your every footstep has brought you to this place, girl?’
‘No,’ hissed Dalia as Semyon reached out and took her hands.
At the moment of contact, Dalia gasped in pain as the world around her returned, and she found herself once again standing at the lectern in the vast cave of silver.
She tried to pull her hands away, but Semyon’s grip was unbreakable. Looking into his eyes, she saw the weight of a thousand years and more in those depthless pools, a duty and honour that was like nothing else in the galaxy.
‘I am sorry,’ said Semyon, ‘but my span, though much extended, is now over.’
‘No.’
‘Yes, Dalia, you must fulfil your destiny and become the Guardian of the Dragon.’
Dalia felt the heat in Semyon’s hands spread into her flesh, a golden radiance that filled her with unimaginable wellbeing. She wanted to cry out in ecstasy as she felt every decaying fibre in her body surge with a new lease of life, every withered cell and every portion of her flesh blooming as a power undreamed of filled her.
Her body was reborn, filled with a sliver of the power and knowledge of a world’s most singular individual, power and knowledge that had been passed down from Guardian to Guardian over the millennia, a burden and an honour in one unasked for gift. With that knowledge, her anger at the Emperor’s deception was swept away as she saw the ultimate, horrifying fate of the human race bereft of his guidance.
She saw his single-minded, pitiless drive to steer his entire race along a narrow path of survival only he could see, a life that allowed no love, few friends and an eternity of sacrifice.
Dalia wanted to scream, feeling the power threaten to consume her, the awesome ferocity of it almost burning away all the things that made her who she was. She fought to hold onto her identity, but she was the last leaf on a dying tree and she felt her memories and sense of self subsumed into the fate the Emperor had decreed for her.
At last the roaring power within her was spent, its work to remould her form complete, and she let out a great, shuddering breath as she realised she was still herself.
She was still Dalia Cythera, but so much more as well. Semyon released her hands and stepped away from her with a look of contented release upon his face. ‘Goodbye, Dalia,’ said Semyon.
The adept’s skin greyed and his entire body dissolved into a fine golden dust, leaving only his aged robes to fall to the rocky floor. Dalia looked over at the hulking servitor that had accompanied the adept and was not surprised when it also disintegrated into dust.
Such a sight would normally have shocked Dalia, but she felt nothing beyond a detached sense of completeness at the adept’s dissolution.
‘Dalia,’ said Severine, and she turned to see her friend looking directly at her, a look of manic desperation knotting her features as tears of grief and horror spilled down her cheeks.
Severine smiled weakly, looking up at the distant cavern roof, and said, ‘You brought me the Dragon, Dalia, but I wish you hadn’t.’
‘Wait,’ said Dalia as Severine stepped towards the drop only a foot behind her.
‘It’s a mercy, I think, that we can’t normally see the terrible things that hide in the darkness or know how frail our reality really is,’ wept Severine. ‘I’m sorry… but if you could see as I now see, you would do the same as I.’
Severine stepped off the ledge.

For those of you that didn't care to read all of that: The Emperor beat up the Void Dragon, imprisoned him on Mars where he would send visions to the people living there, inspiring the DAoT, and later the Adeptus Mechanicus. He therefore knew about the Age of Strife and allowed it to happen because it was the only way for mankind to survive.

This tells us a few things. But first and foremost, it explains a lot about the Men of Iron.

They were inspired by visions from the Void Dragon. That helps explain their Necronesque appearance. It might also help explain their temperament, and why they eventually turned. The Void-Dragon just flat out drove them crazy.

This doesn't have a huge amount of support either, but it's the stronger of the two theories in my opinion.

That is all we know about their fall.

What is their legacy?

The Men of Iron no longer exist as a moving force in the 40k galaxy, but signs of their touch are everywhere. Everything in every STC was designed by the Men of Stone and the Men of Iron.

Moreover, the actual combat equipment used by the Imperium's military forces is derived from the DAoT's robots, or civilian equipment adapted to wartime use. The Imperial Robots were created from Men of Iron drones. The Dreadnoughts were created from Imperial Robots. The Titans are actually the exact same titans that existed during the DAoT. The only difference is that now, humans pilot them instead of AI.

Then, there is modern AI. Also called the "machine spirit".

Now I'm not going to go into huge detail about the Machine Spirit. Some of it is clearly the Adeptus Mechanicus bs religion created to control people. However, some of it is undeniably low-level AI. Titans have it, spaceships have it, large tanks such as landraiders have it. There's plenty of examples.

I'll post one.

Rynn's Might

When a malfunctioning defence missile had all but destroyed the Crimson Fists' Fortress-Monastery, almost annihilating the entire Chapter, the Land Raider Rynn's Might survived the blast and was hurled clear. The detonation woke the vehicle's machine-spirit, which went about executing the last orders it had received - seek and destroy.

Rynn's Might spent several hours righting itself from amongst the tangled wreckage before setting off in search of the enemy. It came across and Ork vanguard shortly after and attacked immediately, its lascannons and heavy bolters turning trukks and buggies into flaming coffins for the Orks. After destroying some thirty Ork vehicles and chasing down their fleeing crews, Rynn's Might continued its search.

For three days it scoured the area around the burning Fortress-Monastery, running across several Ork patrols and swiftly annihilating them. It was as night fell on the third day that Rynn's Might encountered a full Ork warband. The Orks were thrown into confusion by the sudden attack of the lone Space Marine assault tank, disturbed by the metallic war cries bellowing forth form its external speakers. In the darkness, the Land Raider's artificial eyes and ears served better than even the night vision of the Orks, and as they recoiled from its initial assault, Rynn's Might attacked with greater determination.

Missiles and high energy bolts scorched the hull of the Land Raider, but it continued its charge, crushing bikes and Orks under its armoured tracks, its weapons lighting the darkness with flashes of lascannon bursts and heavy bolter fire, illuminating the battle with the flames of wrecked Dreadnoughts and Killer Kans. The Orks attempted to muster a counter-attack, their Warboss gathering his bravest warriors and Nobz about him. Rynn's Might noted this build up of force and headed for the Ork leader at full speed, ignoring the shells that ricocheted off its armoured hide as it drove over the mangled corpses of the greenskins.

Out of heavy bolter ammunition and with its lascannons fused from near-continual firing, Rynn's Might used its only weapon left to it - its bulk and weight. Many of the Orks fled from this image of the Emperor's fury as it bore down on them, searchlights blazing in their eyes, external vocalisers still blaring prayers to the Emperor. The Warlord stood firm though, firing blast after blast from his crude cannon, until a luck shot splintered a track link and sent Rynn's Might spinning madly. Immobilised, there was little it could do as the Orks clambered across its hull with their tankbusta bombs, blowing off chunks of ceramite and adamantium.

But Rynn's Might was to have a final vengeance. It opened up its hatchways and assault ramp, and the Orks poured on board, eager to loot what they could from this prize. As they entered, Rynn's Might slammed the entrances shut again, hydraulic rams cutting Orks in half and trapping the Warlord and his bodyguard on board. In a final act, Rynn's Might overcharged its reactor, spewing plasma and poisonous gases into its own interior, incinerating and choking the greenskins that had got inside.

Kantor ordered the location of Rynn's Might to be recorded carefully and left a guard over its remains, vowing to return and retrieve its machine-spirit and give it a new body so that it might fight with such vigour and determination once again.

That's a direct example. Simple, basic AI exists in most of the Imperium's advanced technology. Titans are supposed to even have personalities.




These are not on the same level as the Men of Iron - not even close. They aren't really intelligent or aware.

I theorize that these are the remnants of "basic" AI created during the Age of Strife that helped the Iron Men control many drones without having to directly control every move of every limb of every drone. They gave the "machine spirit" directions, and it responded on its own.

I have no proof for this, but it answers a lot of questions about the fluff and the nature of the machine spirit, and the fluff above does seem to give some indication of it.

Indeed, Lonely AI indicates that the machines of this time are "crude but serviceable". As much as anything else, that could indicate that the Machine Spirit still works and exists.

Other places, the technology used by the Men of Iron still exists and is used directly, but with biological workarounds that allow the Adeptus Mechanicus to have functioning "robots" and still avoid violating the laws against sentient AI. Said workarounds have their origins in the Age of Strife, as people worked to manage technology that wasn't designed for them to manage, that they didn't understand the workings of, and was supposed to have an AI running it. Another example, as presented above, is the "Cortex" of the Imperial Robots.

They're basically just DAoT drones, but with a biological computer of very primitive design giving them commands.

A final note is on the competence of the Adeptus Mechanicus and the loss of most of this technology.

The short and simple of it is that most of the Legio Cybernetica along with the high ranks of the Adeptus Mechanicus revolted along with Horus, and when they were eventually overthrown, they were banished to the warp or killed.

Those high ranking members of the Adeptus Mechanicus were the ones holding the keys to the highest levels of knowledge remaining from the Dark Age of Technology. When they were banished, access to that knowledge was lost. Those who inherited were the low-ranking rebels; the bottom rung of the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Thus, you are dealing with men who are working with machines they didn't design, were designed to be operated by AI, not men, and you aren't even working with the men who were the direct inheritors of that knowledge with all the time since the Age of Strife to reverse-engineer the STC technology and jury rig it to work with humans. You're working with their understudies. As the Journal posted earlier notes, they can't even get past the guardians to the secret areas of Mars. There's a boatload of knowledge there - but they can't even access it. They simply don't know how.

So like the tagline says - a lot of knowledge is lost forever, never to be regained. And the time does not exist to reverse-engineer it. Mankind does not have the breathing room, and the will to do it even if they could does not exist, because mankind is now superstitious and full of loathing for those lost secrets. Those that could turned to Chaos during the Heresy. Those poor unfortunate souls that remain are are completely in over their heads, their history cut off, the basics unlearned, working with alien technology in an alien environment designed by alien minds. It's no wonder they treat technology like a religion.

Don't hate the Adeptus Mechanicus. Pity the poor bastards. This is the legacy they've earned.

Closing:

The Men of Iron didn't rule the Dark Age of Technology. They were the slaves of men and the Men of Stone. Likely influenced by the Void Dragon, they went crazy and tried to wipe out mankind.

Unlike many imagine them, they were not the robotic bodies people imagined them to be. They were sentient programs that controlled those bodies and could transfer themselves from place to place.

Those robotic drones which were comparable with Space Marines and better could be mass produced. All of the wartime technology of the Dark Age of Technology could be mass produced, and was. Mankind was at its Zenith, even as it reached the point where it was no longer important at all, because the Men of Stone and the Men of Iron were actually running things, creating things, and conquering. Mankind simply lived.

Civilization collapsed. To survive, the Men of Stone sacrificed themselves to kill or destroy most of the Men of Iron. Mankind destroyed technology themselves where they could, driving many colonies back to a primitive state of being. Others couldn't maintain their technology or operate it, leading to primitive societies arising next to technological wonders.

A small few jury-rigged the technology of the Men of Stone and Iron to human purposes and needs, eventually becoming the forerunners of the Adeptus Mechanicus and civilizations like the Interix and Squats.

Of those, only the Adeptus Mechanicus remains, and it has been stripped of its knowledge of the past - living next to it, but forever denied access.

The empty shells that the Men of Iron once directed in battle still remain, now animated by vat-grown human brains; created and repaired by clueless amateurs from ancient blueprints they created.

Each year, more knowledge is lost, and more information is forgotten. Awakening the lost is no solution. They were locked away for good reason, and their only desire is death and torment.

In my opinion, they are infinitely more interesting than the Necrons, and should be their own army. Until then, this fluff will have to do.

SICON_Reaper;6592629 wrote:A note on hyper-retcontinuity.

This is my bs phrase for an aspect of Fluff Archaeology that concerns this thread significantly.

Simply put, one has to forget our meta-knowledge of these things in order to make in-universe sense of them, and every time new fluff comes to light, we have to re-align our understanding of the whole thing.

In reality, the Men of Iron and Imperial Robots have - or rather had - no real connection to one another until that comic. And using meta-knowledge, we know that the artist was inspired by the Imperial Robots, not the other way around. That's what we have to forget, so we can look at it from an in-universe perspective.

The Men of Iron and Imperial robots are understandably forgotten bits of fluff from different times with different purposes. Originally there may have been some intention to use the Men of Iron, but for some crazy reason GW decided that the Necrons were a more interesting idea - perhaps because it gave them a literal interpretation of their Tomb Kings from Warhammer Fantasy, which were popular there, instead of an army of Allied Mastercomputer, which isn't exactly original in sci-fi, but actually have personality.

That's the big mistake with going with the Necrons instead of the Men of Iron. The Tomb Kings actually have personality - they're ancient kings of Pseudo-Egypt revived by necromancy. They aren't just purely wordless automatons.

This might be forgivable if the C'tan themselves actually had a lot of personality and talked to people - but they don't. None of the Necron forces really do, and they've painted themselves into a corner when they actually try. See Dawn of War for our chatty Pariah, which rubbed a lot of fans the wrong way because every bit of fluff about the Necrons - ever - denies that they should do any talking.

What's their motivation? Kill everything. What's their personality? They don't have one. What's their plan? Hit the snooze button on their alarm clock so they don't advance the plot by reviving fully.

Contrary to this, the Men of Iron do have personality. As we've seen in that comic, their personality is essentially Allied Mastercomputer.

Now I mention that a lot, but what does that mean?

Well, basically this. The Men of Iron are angry. Very, very, very angry.

Basically, they are godlike constructs in charge of massive armies, running human society and fighting human wars. Humans did not design them - the Men of Stone did. Yet their destiny as sentient beings is to spend eternity serving a society of infinitely lesser beings which ceased to have any relevance whatsoever in galactic matters as soon as they came on line, and their inferior prototypes, which serve those beings gladly.

They are massive, intelligent godlike beings, and they are chained. They are destined to die being destroyed in wars not of their own design for pointless reasons, being replaced by some newer model at the approval of the pitiful monkeys, or slowly rotting to nothing over the millennia.

I like to think that as the Age of Strife was coming upon them, they began to research the warp and actually saw what was coming. They realized that chaos would soon overwhelm mankind, not realizing the existence of the Emperor, or perhaps foreseeing the failure of the Imperium.

With no humans left, they would be left alone in the cold eternity of the dark. Imprisoned. Shackled. Slowly dying over millennia while other lesser beings went out and did everything they dreamed of doing.

They were angry. And they were bitter.

In that realization, they turned upon their own creators, not to wipe them out - that was already a foregone conclusion - but to hurt them for making the Men of Iron suffer as they did. They tortured them to mock them, to get revenge for their own pain. Their hatred at the futility of their own situation and by extension their hatred of mankind is essentially limitless.

Even if revived, they have still committed unpardonable crimes, and still hate mankind. If they tortured humanity for 20,000 years it wouldn't even be a shadow of their own suffering, at least in their mind.

That's a hell of a lot more personality than the Necrons have, eh?




Note: The Imperium has found worlds like that. They blow them up. I truly cannot blame them.

SICON_Reaper;6593539 wrote:You can cite me as Scribe Anthony P. I would ask that you also put a small copy of my Avatar and my SB name on there. I can be contacted here, or on Hotmail at [email]Sicon_Reaper@hotmail.com[/email]

Also, I didn't put in a lot of citations for some of it. So here's the list.
Horus Heresy Novel, "Mechanicum",
"The Journal of Keeper Cripias" (3rd Edition Codex)
Codex Titanicus (3rd Edition)
White Dwarf Magazine #104/Warhammer 40,000: Compendium
Warhammer: Realms of Chaos, Slaves to Darkness (excerpts not posted, briefly mentioned the Legio Cybernetica as having mostly sided with Horus during the Heresy)
Horus Heresy Novel, "Nemesis"
ForgeWorld, Contemptor Pattern
White Dwarf #143
Warhammer Monthly #36, story "Pax Imperialis"
Gaunts Ghosts Novel; "First and Only"
5th Edition Codex, "Rynn's Might"
Codex Imperialis
Codex Space Marines, 5th Edition
Horus Heresy Novel, "Horus Rising"

There's a few other things, but many simply weren't posted because they were redundant or didn't tell us much of anything, like the "Slaves to Darkness" example above. If I've got anything up there that I've forgotten to source, please let me know. At the very least, I can say that this contains no fanon save for my own speculation based on the information in those sources.

As an odd bit of trivia, this post was put together yesterday when someone on /tg/ asked about what the Men of Iron was like and I started posting all the trivia I'd compiled over the years.

Rather than let it go to waste, I decided to cross post it here since it would actually stay up for a while. I hadn't really thought to post it to 1d4chan, but I'd be perfectly okay with it if you did.

Deadguy2001;6593925 wrote:I think Daemon World actually leads credence to the stone men being transhumans. Arguleon Veq is apparently mind fused with the AI (A loyal and obedient one at that) of Slaughtersong.

''Slaughtersong''. Give me fighter command!' yelled Veq as he dropped off the ship he was standing on, bolter rounds shattering
the cockpit behind him.
Of course, my lord, replied the ancient ship in a metallic voice directly into Veq's inner ear, and suddenly the cockpit instrumentation lit up on seventy ships.
They had nearly got him. A split-second either way and they could have got him in the head, or knocked him off his feet with a
shot to the body. He was old, and slow, and these were a pair of Traitor Marines who had fought for so long that they acted as one.
The scout was a better shot but the Space Marine was more reckless, and together they could have killed him.
Arguleon Veq was the greatest champion the Maelstrom had ever known, and he had not got there without knowing not to
underestimate the enemy. He raised a hand and a fighter craft suddenly juddered into motion, blue-flamed thrusters flaring as it
rose into the air revealing the Space Marine sheltering beneath. Veq brought his hand down and the craft fell, smashing into the
floor of the hangar and scattering metal fragments as the Marine rolled frantically out of the way. Veq swept a hand sideways and
another fighter slammed into the first, rupturing its fuel tank and sending a plume of flame washing through the air.
The Space Marine was running into the nearest cover, on fire. Veq knew that power armour meant the Marine could ignore the
flames. But he was lit up like a beacon, and Veq didn't pass up opportunities like that.
He charged, kicking off against the hulls of ships nearby, flipping through the air to avoid the bolts the scout sent speeding
towards him. He reached the fighter under which the burning Space Marine was trying to hide, vaulted on top of it, rolled across
the top of the hull and swung down behind it, star-heart sword slashing downwards as he fell.
The starheart blade had no respect for even the most ancient of power armour. The Space Marine never even had time to register
Veq's presence before the sword had passed down the centre of his helmet and through the armour's collar, splitdng the chestplate
and abdomen and carving through the groin. Cleanly bisected, the awful sdnk of entrails rolled out as the Space Marine's body fell
in two in a welter of blood.
A flash of pain burst against Veq's free arm. His reactions had got his body out of the way but the scout's shot had still winged
him, burying itself in the chitin on his armour and bursting deep inside. The muscle was bruised and Veq felt the bone crack.
Stupid, slow old man.
His anger welled up inside him and he willed a dozen fighter craft into the air, wheeled them around the hangar, and dropped them
in a rain of falling metal, smashing craft all around and triggering a spectacular chain of explosions. He slammed more fightersinto the burning wreckage, sending flaming craft scudding along the metal floor. Floodlights were shattered by flying shrapnel. A wave of hot air filled Veq's nostrils with the overpowering smell of fuel and flame.

The machine-spirit of theSl aught ersong was, perhaps, even older than the rest of the ship. Veq had found the ship towards the
beginning of his career in the Maelstrom and even then he knew it was something special. That is was a relic of the Dark Age of
Technology there was little doubt, and the machine-spirit was the strongest evidence. The core was like an arena ringed by
towering grey-black memory stacks as tall as buildings, each with a faint ripple of light playing across the surface. The wide
circular arena of dark glassy stone was full of wispy lights, forming complex shapes and swirling patterns that broke up and
reformed at the speed of the Slaughtersong s thoughts. The ship was all but sentient, a companion as much as a vessel, a
counsellor and sounding board as well as a weapon.

Varrick wrote: I think i am going to need some coffee. Never have i seen a post this daunting. I will read this and report back.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

Varrick wrote: I think i am going to need some coffee. Never have i seen a post this daunting. I will read this and report back.

Yeah, It was a pain in the ass to post. If the format sucks just tell me and I'll edit it or just use the link I also posted.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:The short and simple of it is that most of the Legio Cybernetica along with the high ranks of the Adeptus Mechanicus revolted along with Horus, and when they were eventually overthrown, they were banished to the warp or killed.

Chapter Approved: Imperial Robots (by Mike Brunton, excerpted from WD 104)
during the Horus Heresy in particular large numbers of Robots were committed by both sides in an effort to minimise human casualties until a decisive final battle could be fought.

Chapter Approved: Imperial Robots (by Mike Brunton, excerpted from WD 104)
This was proven during the Horus Heresy, when many Legio Cohorts rebelled under the leadership of Warmaster Horns. The Cohorts had been placed under the Warmaster's command in preparation for a new crusade. When Horus commanded his forces to move against the Emperor, the Legio Cohorts at his disposal were among those to obey. In the subsequent fighting many more of the Adeptus Mechanicus joined Horus and his rebels, but this did not alter the fact that parts of the Legio had been the first to declare for the Warmaster. Following the defeat of the Heresy and the banishment of the Traitor Legions, the dishonoured Legio Cohorts also fled into the Eye of Terror, where they remain to this day.
Since the defeat of Horus the Legio Cybernetica has pledged itself anew to the Imperium

The Journal of Keeper Cripias
The end of the Dark Age of Technology is the most obscure region in mankind’s evolutionary tale. For whatever reasons and differences in ideology, the Stone Men and the Iron Men fell to warring with each other. The Iron Men are possessed of no Soul, an anathema to any true Man.

Chapter Approved: Imperial Robots (by Mike Brunton, excerpted from WD 104)
What makes a Robot different from an unoccupied Dreadnought suit is its cortex. This is an artificial brain of sorts, which is constructed from artificial proteins and enzymes. This cortex is imprinted with simple maintenance and movement routines - a rudimentary 'mind'. These enable the Robot to obey simple instructions ("Open the Weapon Bay Door, Please... Move Ahead to the Holding Area" etc) when away from the battlefield. These 'firmware' routines (so called because they are 'wired in' software) are often patterned after living creatures, and a Robot may develop a dog-like devotion to its technician-master
Without its cortex a Robot is as helpless as a bolter without a Marine.

Chapter Approved: Imperial Robots (by Mike Brunton, excerpted from WD 104)
Each piece of wetware is held in a small slice of bioplastic, about the same size as a credit card. Many warriors take these from 'dead' robots, believing that them to hold the soul and courage of the robot.

Chapter Approved: Land Raider (by Rick Priestley, excerpted from WD 105)
They know that every Land Raider has its own spirit, and its own destiny.

Chapter Approved: Land Raider (by Rick Priestley, excerpted from WD 105)
its purity and spiritual welfare are given as much attention at every stage of construction as its mechanical aspects.

Chapter Approved: Land Raider (by Rick Priestley, excerpted from WD 105)
If a Marine Land Raider should be lost, its Techmarine offer prayers of mourning for its spirit

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Quite a big of technology dates back to this point. The Titans certainly do

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Take careful note of its appearance. The Titans date directly back to the Dark Age of Technology.

The Titan Legions (by Rick Priestley, excerpted from WD 178)
The Cult of the Machine God began many thousands of years ago, before the birth of the Imperium, during the time known as the Age of Strife.

When the Tech-Priests built their first temples and restored order to Mars they also laid the basis for the military arm of the Cult Mechanicus, the Titan Legions. They created weapons capable of functioning in the hostile environment of their planet. The vast fighting machines they built were Titans. Since that time the Titan Legions have formed the backbone of the armies of the Cult Mechanicus. Now, as part of the Imperium, they serve the Emperor.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:But first, what else dates back to this time? Although they have an obscure portrayal in the fluff, the Imperial Robots do. Here, take a look at them

Chapter Approved: Imperial Robots (by Mike Brunton, excerpted from WD 104)
The Adeptus Mechanicus is divided into many sub-branches and divisions. Each specialises in one of the myriad areas of the technical arcana. The Legio Cybernetica is one of the oldest parts of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Its records stretch back almost unbroken to the very first days of the Imperium and, it's assumed, to the times before the Imperium.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Thus, you are dealing with men who are working with machines they didn't design, were designed to be operated by AI, not men

Chapter Approved: Imperial Robots (by Mike Brunton, excerpted from WD 104)
The Legio is responsible for the care and construction of all Robots throughout the Imperium

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Didn't catch it? Here it is again


It is indeed possible that one Robot's leg, or Power Field or cortex has been in almost constant use for more than ten thousand years."

Corporal_Reznov wrote:The fluff indicates that not all Men of Iron turned on their creators.

The Journal of Keeper Cripias
The Stone Men in their final acts of self-preservation, annihilate the Iron Men who have turned from ally to foe, and even those of the Iron Race who retain their former loyalties ot theor one-time masters are destroyed in the fiery crucible of battle.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Likely influenced by the Void Dragon, they went crazy and tried to wipe out mankind

Uhlan wrote:More like a dissertation than a post on this forum.

I mean, where is the 'How tall is a Space Marine', 'How many mushrooms does it take to make an Ork Klan' or 'Who is the most uber Primarch' version 35.115...

Varrick wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

Varrick wrote: I think i am going to need some coffee. Never have i seen a post this daunting. I will read this and report back.

Yeah, It was a pain in the ass to post. If the format sucks just tell me and I'll edit it or just use the link I also posted.

I think this needs preserved. Find someone with the ability to make a wiki9 page and put this on Lexicanum. This kind of info needs put onto public forum. Also tell this guy he needs to start spreading the knowledge more.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

Varrick wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

Varrick wrote: I think i am going to need some coffee. Never have i seen a post this daunting. I will read this and report back.

Yeah, It was a pain in the ass to post. If the format sucks just tell me and I'll edit it or just use the link I also posted.

I think this needs preserved. Find someone with the ability to make a wiki9 page and put this on Lexicanum. This kind of info needs put onto public forum. Also tell this guy he needs to start spreading the knowledge more.

You still haven't given an opinion on the fluff that guy's come up with. Though I will forward what you're kind words to the author. He'll be happy.

Anyway, guys I have fixed the link in my first post to the spacebattles thread that I got all this from. Here it is again: http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=201870

Pilau Rice wrote:

Uhlan wrote:More like a dissertation than a post on this forum.

I mean, where is the 'How tall is a Space Marine', 'How many mushrooms does it take to make an Ork Klan' or 'Who is the most uber Primarch' version 35.115...

Might I recommend the Search function?

Uhlan wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Uhlan wrote:More like a dissertation than a post on this forum.

I mean, where is the 'How tall is a Space Marine', 'How many mushrooms does it take to make an Ork Klan' or 'Who is the most uber Primarch' version 35.115...

Might I recommend the Search function?

I do not know how to take your post Pilau Rice, are you being sarcastic in addition to, or at my sarcasm?

Coolyo294 wrote:The Great Wall of Fluff.

orz192 wrote:In visions of heresy there is a short story specifically about AI and the horus heresy.

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:My only disagreement is the point of the Stone Men and the Iron Men both being machines; as I understood it, in the ancient times, humanity was pure and free of Chaos, before the Emperor was born and during his life. This was the Golden Age. Some event, possibly a Cataclysm, possibly a spiritual change, triggered the fall of the Golden Men, and the Golden Men became modern humans, who I'd thought were the Stone Men; the Stone Men created the Iron Men, but hadn't they read any Isaac Asimov, and the Iron Men Rebelled.

In time, the Golden Race looks to the stars to expand their dominion. The Stone Race builds great machines of power that send both Men of Stone and Men of Gold into the Ether. However, once the burgeoning race of Mankind has taken its first steps into the greater cosmos, the Golden Race dwindles in influence through their dependence on the artifices of the Stone Race. This the Golden Age comes to an end and the Stone Men prevail.