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Okay, got a 1350 point tourney coming up in Feb, for beginners and veterans alike. This is the first time I will have ever played any real games, let alone on a tournament scale.
It is only 4 games, over one day, so not a HUGE scale, but as this is a first for me, I'm pretty open to any kind of assistance.

I've gone here, not for a powergaming list (ugh!) but a list that I consider fluffy enough for Word Bearers, while hopefully still beinng competitive.

Please note this is also my first draft, so this may yet be refined, hopefully with some tips from the Dakka community here.

Onto the list!

Chaos Lord (Apostle)
Mark of Tzeentch
Power Weapon
Personal Icon

Chosen CSM x5
Icon of CG
Meltagun x 2
Plasma gun x 2
Rhino

Chaos Terminators
Icon of CG
Chainfist x 1
Heavy flamer x 1

CSM x 8
Icon of CG
Meltagun x 1
Apsiring Champ
w/ Power Weapon
Rhino

CSM x 10
Icon of CG
Aspiring Champ
w/ Power weap
Rhino

CSM x 5

Lesser Daemons x 8

Lesser Daemons x 8

Chaos Havocs x6
Lascannon x 2
Autocannon x 2

That comes to 1313 points so far, again, very open to criticism, tips, advice, and everything you have to share.

Thanks all!

Hi

Why not try adding a Summoned greater daemon? They're awesome, except for the fact that they come into play randomly and that one of your champions/lord has to die!

Always try to put 2 meltas in a squad, if you cant then move the 1 melta from the 8 man CSM squad to the 10 man squad

Maybe drop the power weapons in the CSM squad for Power fists, it will give you a better chance against dreadnaughts.

How many terminators are in the squad? if its only 3 drop the chainfist and give all 3 of them flamers/heavy flamers ( for an anti infantry suicide squad) or give them all meltas (for a anti vehicle suicide squad).

Imho try to drop the havocs, I really like them but they are not fearless and that can hurt you alot! Try to replace them with obliterators or at least give them a IOCG

Watch out for that 5 man CSM squad, make sure that the objective and the squad are in cover and protect them from assault (But I think there are better alternatives, maybe more daemons?)

I hope this helps and good luck!

Just a quick bump; man this forum moves fast.. Any other critique?

O and why dont you have DPs? or are you trying to stick to a more fluffy list?

I don't know why he wont go for a dp. it will only be a little more expensive than the current model and be way more resiliant and the ability to fly and crush space marine squads in a single combat.

But he is keen on the apostle idea, so the army is more of a fluffy style. A greater daemon WOULD be wicked in here Jman. And I know a model you could borrow for him.


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And I agree, always take powerfists. With 4+ to hit with the champ, its already a pretty low chance, but you dont wanna pay 15 points for him to kill maybe one marine a turn if hes lucky. Everyone is scared of powerfists.

Okay. From everything I've been reading, both here and in other threads, I'm seeing a lot fo the following.

Daemons Prince.
This seems to be the staple for every army. I'm seeing a LOT of DPs being run with MoN, wings, and WarpTime.
I initially avoided this because, basically I ahve the lord model already, and a DP is expensiveish to buy. Also, I thought a Lord fit the Word Bearers 'feel' that I had in mind, a lot better than a DP.
But, it seems that everyone loves a DP, so I'm actually considering it.
I have a DP model sitting around here somewhere that I planned on doing a Slaaneshy conversion with (ages ago before I started this army) so maybe I could use that model.

I'm also seeing a LOT of Plaguemarines and Khorne Bezerkers.
I can definitely see why, and while I appreciate their effectiveness, I think I'm gona stick with the generic marines for now. Mostly due to fluffyness, altho I do have plans for a counts-as bezerker squad eventually.

Obliterators.
EVERYONe I see talking about oblits like they're the second coming of Christ. Generally, they seem all the rage. I know omgitsduane seems to be pretty against them, apprently due to some bad games, but everyone else thinks their the bees knees.
So I'm not sure, I may have to try a hand at converting some of these up from the spare terminators I have... but I was also pretty keen on the havocs as my heavy support choice, so I'm not sure.

I also think I need to work on the special weapons distribution for the army a little. Focus meltas on anti-tank squads, and throw some plasmas in there.

Also fists, I kinda realise now why fists are so much better than just a pw, but the champ I already have built has just a pw, so that won't be changing, and I had plans for a cool pw for the next champ, although if I give him a fist that'll ahve to change

hmmmm....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I should also note, this is my first tournament, with my first army, and I'm not all THAT concerned with winning. I'm there to have fun, and to be honest, to try and learn the rules a little better, and learn about facing different armies.

I'm not expecting to win, I'll just be happy if I get decent points for painting to be honest

Howdy

having taken CSM to tournaments and done not to shabby, I can tell you that you don't need oblits in your army to do well. I use havocs a lot, and originally used lascannons all the time in my squads til I started playing more competitively, but your havoc squad should be all autocannons for two reasons - at 1350, there won't be too much armour 13+ around, so 8 x S7 shots from your havocs will do you well as long as you just wail on transports and MC's. Any land raiders, ironclads or furiosos your melta-totting CSM squads can deal with. 2nd reason- lascannons are an eye watering 35pts!!! for havocs, is 1 shot compared to the autocannon's 2, and if you roll like me it will miss when you really need it to hit. If you want 1 higher strength shot, take 3 x autocannons and 1 x ML. As well as 1 strength 8 shot, you can use a frag aswell as your auto shots against infantry if the need arises. Dropping the two lascannons down to auto or ML saves you 30 pts.

A summoned GD would do wonders to boosting this army's combat ability and still fit with your theme, so drop the power weapon on your AC in the squad your lord will be riding with, and thats 45 pts you've saved, and drop some SLD's so you can fit the SGD in. He comes out the now naked champ in your lord's squad to back them up. If you have any remaining SLD from one of the squads then put them into the other squad so you have one larde Daemon-bomb unit to come in.

As well as being fluffy for Word Bearers, your IOCG is pretty essential for normal CSM squads so they don't run. Like was said before, try and give your CSM squads double melta, and the 10 man squad a power fist. Since your havocs are pretty essential for your de-meching abilities, i would give them a IOCG as well so they don't run, and good job on adding a chump to die to that squad for ablative wounds - it can seem a waste of points to do so when building your list, but it is almost always worth it.

Theme wise, not sure about the Mark of Tzeentch on your lord. I know it gives him a 4++, but for Word Bearers I would rather keep him undivided and give him the undivided Daemon Weapon for + D6 S5 power weapon attacks. He'll kick ass against MEQ ( hit on 3's kill on 3's) as long as you keep him away from powerfists etc. And try clear any dreadnoughts out of his path :p

Caranthir987 wrote:Howdy

having taken CSM to tournaments and done not to shabby, I can tell you that you don't need oblits in your army to do well. I use havocs a lot, and originally used lascannons all the time in my squads til I started playing more competitively, but your havoc squad should be all autocannons for two reasons - at 1350, there won't be too much armour 13+ around, so 8 x S7 shots from your havocs will do you well as long as you just wail on transports and MC's. Any land raiders, ironclads or furiosos your melta-totting CSM squads can deal with. 2nd reason- lascannons are an eye watering 35pts!!! for havocs, is 1 shot compared to the autocannon's 2, and if you roll like me it will miss when you really need it to hit. If you want 1 higher strength shot, take 3 x autocannons and 1 x ML. As well as 1 strength 8 shot, you can use a frag aswell as your auto shots against infantry if the need arises. Dropping the two lascannons down to auto or ML saves you 30 pts.

A summoned GD would do wonders to boosting this army's combat ability and still fit with your theme, so drop the power weapon on your AC in the squad your lord will be riding with, and thats 45 pts you've saved, and drop some SLD's so you can fit the SGD in. He comes out the now naked champ in your lord's squad to back them up. If you have any remaining SLD from one of the squads then put them into the other squad so you have one larde Daemon-bomb unit to come in.

As well as being fluffy for Word Bearers, your IOCG is pretty essential for normal CSM squads so they don't run. Like was said before, try and give your CSM squads double melta, and the 10 man squad a power fist. Since your havocs are pretty essential for your de-meching abilities, i would give them a IOCG as well so they don't run, and good job on adding a chump to die to that squad for ablative wounds - it can seem a waste of points to do so when building your list, but it is almost always worth it.

Theme wise, not sure about the Mark of Tzeentch on your lord. I know it gives him a 4++, but for Word Bearers I would rather keep him undivided and give him the undivided Daemon Weapon for + D6 S5 power weapon attacks. He'll kick ass against MEQ ( hit on 3's kill on 3's) as long as you keep him away from powerfists etc. And try clear any dreadnoughts out of his path :p

Ahh, thanks mate, this is the perfect kinda reply I was looking for!
You raise a lot of good points, so I'll try go through them one at a time..

Autocannons vs lascannons. Very good point, makes a lot of sense. Think I might follow your lead on this one.

Summoned GD.. Hmm, I would love to add one of these to my army at some point, but I just don't think I'll have the ability to afford to buy one, as well as paint one to a standard I'd be happy with, by February, with the amount of other stuff I also have to do, but definitely on the 'to do' list for future tourneys.

IoCG. Point taken there also, I'll make sure all my squads run with it, should prove to be invaluable. The extra marines with the hacovs are for that reason exactly. I don't want one lucky shot effectively quartering the effectiveness of my unit..

Double meltas and a fist are sounding more and more like better options. Will work on this entering the list.

The Mark of Tzeentch, Power Weapon, and Personal Icon, are me using the available rules to try and represent an Accursed Crozius. The undivided mark would be great fluffy wise, and for what it gives, but unfortunately, as it stands currently, we have to use a bunch of not so fluffy rules as a counts-as, to actually try and stick to the fluff.

Thanks again for the well thought out and helpful reply!

I'm with a lot of the advice Caranthir987 gave. Just a couple minor things:

JBrehaut wrote:Chosen CSM x5
Icon of CG
Meltagun x 2
Plasma gun x 2
Rhino

I take it that this is how the models are made? If you have the option, go all MGs, allowing assault after use, as well as a focused purpose. Blow up the enemy's transport and assault the passengers. PGs will stymie assault because they're Rapid Fire.

JBrehaut wrote:Lesser Daemons x 8
Lesser Daemons x 8

I'd put them together as one crew, because 8 are easily eaten up and given Reserve roll goofery, you might end up handing them piece meal to your enemy, for easy disposal. A group of 16 will be much harder for him to deal with.

Tourney advice. You'll prolly get stomped. Not for the list, but due to inexperience.

I know this as I'm a mediocre general. I can easily club baby-seals, but against the usual RTT set of guys in So. Calif, I rarely hold my own. Thus 'mediocre'.

My advice to you is, go and have fun, and take your lumps as lessons learned. Talk about the game afterwards. Lotsa guys are cool with, "Well, here you shoulda done X instead of Y" and so forth. You pick up good tips. It might be several tourneys until you start slugging hard with the Top Dogs. I've been a semi-tourney regular for over a year, but finish mid field or worse. It's not my list (5 venom DE) but my lack of 40k general-ship. Sad for me, huh?

Yesterday was typical of that: A guy with a decent IG list, but loads of experience (at least a 3rd Edition player) and I felt myself go "deer in the headlights" as my Turn 2 dice and bad decisions assured my loss. So, though I still tried to pull a win (given a 5 objective mission), I lightened up and enjoyed my beating. Nice opponent, too.

JBrehaut wrote:Okay, got a 1350 point tourney coming up in Feb,

Given the amount of time you have to practice, play your list a lot, without making any significant changes, like DP HQs; yes, they're the best, but stick with your Lord and get used to how he works! Getting to know how your list functions is part of becoming a really good player, as many lists do not just run themselves. You need time to get a rhythm with it.

That's part of how I lost yesterday; I used dual lash CSM that I haven't played for months, and just a few procedural misfires and things went badly.

Have fun, man.

First off, welcome to Chaos! Your painting and conversion work is awesome, and be sure I'll be following your progress.

As for the list, you're on the right track, and I really like the fluffy word bearers feel you have, but I'd like to give some advice.

The terminator squad in the list seems... out of focus. They need a job to do, either as a footslogging group or a deepstriking bomb. I'll go with the second of the two for the time being. Also, the Chaos Lord can be upgraded to pack a pretty severe punch without becoming unfluffy. Unmarked Daemon Weapons make great Accursed Crozius, and turn the Lord into a pretty damn impressive combatant.

Now then... He needs someone to run with. Icons of Chaos Glory are cool, and are generally the best choice, but if he's running with bog standard CSM, they'll need to pack a bit more punch. An Icon of Khorne seems unfluffy at first, but just think of it as your lord's Litanies of Chaos, inspiring those around him to commit greater acts of bloodshed.

The Chosen Squad seems pretty good, but plasma guns are expensive, and cause you to risk losing an expensive model to some bad roles. Melta guns for tanks and flamers for hordes are preferred, without breaking the bank.

You're on the right track with the Havocs, but going with 4 autocannons is probably your best bet. 8 str 7 shots per turn will shred light armor and put a serious hurt on infantry of all types. The Lesser Daemons and other CSM are fine, but I dont think you'll need the 5 man squad. How about something like this...

1,350 Word Bearers

HQ
-Chaos Lord (130 points)
Daemon Weapon

Elites
-5x Chaos Chosen (165 points)
2x Melta Gun
2x Flamer
Icon of Chaos Glory
Rhino

-3x Chaos Terminators (120 points)
2x Combi Melta
Chain Fist
Heavy Flamer

Troops
-10x Chaos Space Marines (245 points)
2x Melta Gun
Champion with Icon of Chaos Glory and Power Weapon
Rhino

-9x Chaos Space Marines (260 points)
Flamer
Champion with Icon of Khorne and Power Fist
Rhino with Extra Armor

-10x Lesser Daemons (130 points)

-10x Lesser Daemons (130 points)

Heavy Support
-5x Chaos Havocs (165 points)
4x Autocannon
Icon of Chaos Glory

This totals out to 1,335, leaving you with some room to play with. I tried to stay really close to the way you have your models set up, and I think this will work nicely. It has a good bit of shooting, a lot of bodies, and a ton of really cool and fluffy assault elements. Give it a go?

Edit: Actually, swap the champion in the Lord's retinue's Power Sword for a fist. That just about finishes it off! :-)