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So, with the leaked rules out, It looks like some pretty big impact is being made on the current Ork codex. I was talking with some friends, and this is what we were able to glean from the text so far.

Complex Wound allocation is gone. (Impacts diverse Nobs)

Patch up. (Impacts diverse Nobs)

Basic close combat attack is ap 6. (Orks lose all armor saves in close combat)

LOS rules disallow cover from models on bases. (Impacts Kan Wall)

Gazzy's Waaagh no longer gives Fleet of Foot (Impacts Footsloggers)

Cannot assault out of open topped vehicles that went more than combat speed. (Impacts close combat)

KFF change to 5+ universally and no longer covers vehicles.

Directed fire (Impacts upgraded PK Nob)

Bikers only get +1 to Toughness in shooting. (Impact bikers of all kinds in close combat)

Lumbering USR (Impacts MANs and Gazz)

Do all of these line up with your understanding of the leaked rules? Have you found other impacts?

matphat wrote:
Complex Wound allocation is gone. (Impacts diverse Nobs)

Not gone, but doesn't work well for Nobz anymore.

matphat wrote:
Patch up. (Impacts diverse Nobs)

Yes. 'Nuff said.

matphat wrote:
Basic close combat attack is ap 6. (Orks lose all armor saves in close combat)

Nerf, but a weak one. 6's don't save a lot of Orks to start with.

matphat wrote:
LOS rules disallow cover from models on bases. (Impacts Kan Wall)

Not really. Everything behind the Kanz should be getting KFF saves anyway.

matphat wrote:Gazzy's Waaagh no longer gives Fleet of Foot (Impacts Footsloggers)

Looks like a typo to me, I imagine the intent is for it to be a normal Waaagh! with additional benefits, just like now.

matphat wrote:Cannot assault out of open topped vehicles that went more than combat speed. (Impacts close combat)

You can charge 12" inches though, so you've still got the same range.

matphat wrote:KFF change to 5+ universally and no longer covers vehicles.

Again, probably a typo. There's no reason for it not to affect vehicles. The 5+ is a nerf to the vehicles though. On the other hand, the new squadron rules buff Kanz.

matphat wrote:
Directed fire (Impacts upgraded PK Nob)

Can be circumvented by giving the Nob 'Eavy Armour.

matphat wrote:Bikers only get +1 to Toughness in shooting. (Impact bikers of all kinds in close combat)

Yes.

matphat wrote:

Lumbering USR (Impacts MANs and Gazz)

Yes.

Do we need another thread for this?

Do you mean the 6th ed. leak thread, or is there an Ork thread already?

matphat wrote:Bikers only get +1 to Toughness in shooting. (Impact bikers of all kinds in close combat)

This one makes perfect sense to me and should apply to all bikers. After all when you are being shot at from a far you and hunker down and try and make yourself a smaller target, but if you are leaning off your bike to hit someone with a CC weapon or they are attacking you in CC and are right next to you, it is harder for you to hide behind your bike. Pretty simple concept really and should apply to all bikes across the board IMO.

Skriker

matphat wrote:Do you mean the 6th ed. leak thread, or is there an Ork thread already?

6th ed rumored leak thread.

matphat wrote:
Complex Wound allocation is gone. (Impacts diverse Nobs)
Patch up. (Impacts diverse Nobs)

While these do impact 'diverse' nobs, they also provide the means to ensure that the most important models survive until the end, instead of randomly dying first. I can now include 3-4 basic guys (slugga/choppa) who will be patched out to ensure that my banner, bosspole and powerklaw guys survive. I'm not torn apart by this change.

Basic close combat attack is ap 6. (Orks lose all armor saves in close combat)

Only for models with CCWs. So, Space Wolves ignore our 6+, but Space Marines do not. Yeah, it hurts some, but consider the alternative; the change to no-retreat being Critical hits hardly affects us at all, but messes with all those good-save armies.

LOS rules disallow cover from models on bases. (Impacts Kan Wall)

What-ever.

Gazzy's Waaagh no longer gives Fleet of Foot (Impacts Footsloggers)

Cannot assault out of open topped vehicles that went more than combat speed. (Impacts close combat)

An assault move is now base-move *2. Consider that move 12 + 6 (assault) = 18, and move 6 (combat speed) + assault 12 (double base move) also = 18.

Not sure this has any significant impact at all.

KFF change to 5+ universally and no longer covers vehicles.

I'd expect that to get tweaked in the final rules. This is just a demo. It is clearly intended to affect vehicles, cause it explicitly says what the effect is in the codex. I chalk this one up to an oversight.

Directed fire (Impacts upgraded PK Nob)

There's an easy fix for that that most armies don't have: Consequently, a squad leader with a different combination of saves than the rest of the unit is off limits.

So, buy your nob 'eavy armor and he gets immunity to directed hits. Same cannot be said for marines, eldar, etc. etc.

Bikers only get +1 to Toughness in shooting. (Impact bikers of all kinds in close combat)

And yet, it makes them harder to instant kill with shooting. Which, honestly, I'm more worried about a mass of missile fire killing my nobs than anything that happens to them in assault.


I'm sure it will all be okay. Everyone else is also worried about their nerfs and ignoring their buffs too.

Nice reply Red, I appreciate it.
Now, what about the other things that impact Orks?
I know there are several "good" impacts, such as charging being buffed and what not.

Nobz aren't competitive anymore, Ghazghull is terrible now, and Kan Wall was significantly nerfed.

Hoping for a new codex in early 6th.

Fafnir wrote:Nobz aren't competitive anymore, Ghazghull is terrible now, and Kan Wall was significantly nerfed.

Hoping for a new codex in early 6th.

How was Kan Wall significantly nerfed? Squadrons can ignore results on good dierolls, and the 5+ cover nerf on KFFs was something I hope we all saw coming anyway.

On the topic of bikers, they're harder to hit due to their jink rule, no? Ork bikers are gonna be hard to kill from range.

From what I've read, though our current play style is getting a few hits, it also seems like horde armies are getting some buffs as well.
I'm still not convinced that this is the "real" 6th anyway.

matphat wrote:Patch up. (Impacts diverse Nobs)

What does 'patch up' mean?

It's a rule where at the end of the phase wounds get moved around to maximize the number of dead models. So if you have a squad of 10 nobs and 5 with diverse equipment get wounded, at the end of the phase you reallocate those 5 failed saves so you'd have two dead models and one with 1 wound.

As long as it is another tool to screw Gray Knights as well.

Looks like things have come full circle and charging is back. That means twice the speed, guaranteed. Good for orks. I don't like the look of that whole defensive fire thing though. I hope the leak wasn't real. It looked like too dramatic a change.

matphat wrote:From what I've read, though our current play style is getting a few hits, it also seems like horde armies are getting some buffs as well.
I'm still not convinced that this is the "real" 6th anyway.

The nice thing about Orks is that although they're generally a horde army, there's the potential to play them however you want to play them, and generally be effective at it so long as you do it right. These new changes for 6th edition remove or weaken a lot of the other options, and reinforce the need to play a horde army with Orkz.

And that sucks. I like my Orkz because they're supposed to be the most versatile army in the game. Not so much anymore.

So could someone explain the buffs.

lol I have 120 Orks and run them as footsloggers, their better be some buffs for me footsloggers or their going st8 up on trademe

Also trukks move as fast as rhinos and have no extra Evasion. The speed freak list I've been making is totally screwed and horde ork army also worse because of defensive fire and orks don't have swarm.

Only way I see to redeem this is with a new codex that gives fast high evasion vehicles and army wide feel no pain and a str increase.

illuknisaa wrote:Also trukks move as fast as rhinos and have no extra Evasion. The speed freak list I've been making is totally screwed and horde ork army also worse because of defensive fire and orks don't have swarm.

Only way I see to redeem this is with a new codex that gives fast high evasion vehicles and army wide feel no pain and a str increase.

Why stop there? Give them all fleet, armywide 3++ save, I 10 and forceweapons...

For the love of god can you please stop whining in every thread, these are (at best) very experimental rules which will most likely change a lot compared to the real rules.

Stormboyz can Deep Strike now, even without Zagstrukk (p. 99). If I read correctly, it seems that they can only move 9" though :(

Still, I'm personally very excited about the new rules. Be honest, 5th is starting to getting a bit tedious, isn't it?

Orky-Kowboy wrote:. Be honest, 5th is starting to getting a bit tedious, isn't it?

Not for those of us who just got back into gaming
At least I didn't buy the rulebook

illuknisaa wrote:Also trukks move as fast as rhinos and have no extra Evasion. The speed freak list I've been making is totally screwed and horde ork army also worse because of defensive fire and orks don't have swarm.

Trukks aren't tanks though, are they? As such, they don't get the -1 EV, right?

Also, what's up with people not getting defensive fire? You don't get it unless you have Overwatch, someone deep strikes within 12" or unless someone appears out of reserves or a destroyed transport.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

illuknisaa wrote:Also trukks move as fast as rhinos and have no extra Evasion. The speed freak list I've been making is totally screwed and horde ork army also worse because of defensive fire and orks don't have swarm.

Trukks aren't tanks though, are they? As such, they don't get the -1 EV, right?

Also, what's up with people not getting defensive fire? You don't get it unless you have Overwatch, someone deep strikes within 12" or unless someone appears out of reserves or a destroyed transport.

You can use defensive fire if somebody assault you. p77

To make things worse if you are trying to assault a unit of guardsmen each guards man can shoot your orks 3 times also if you are out of assault range you can still be shot by defensive fire.

And oops I didn't find that fast rule at first.

Orky - you already could. ALL jump infantry can deepstrike

illuknisaa wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

illuknisaa wrote:Also trukks move as fast as rhinos and have no extra Evasion. The speed freak list I've been making is totally screwed and horde ork army also worse because of defensive fire and orks don't have swarm.

Trukks aren't tanks though, are they? As such, they don't get the -1 EV, right?

Also, what's up with people not getting defensive fire? You don't get it unless you have Overwatch, someone deep strikes within 12" or unless someone appears out of reserves or a destroyed transport.

You can use defensive fire if somebody assault you. p77

To make things worse if you are trying to assault a unit of guardsmen each guards man can shoot your orks 3 times also if you are out of assault range you can still be shot by defensive fire.

And oops I didn't find that fast rule at first.

The guardsmen don't get to shoot if you lock them in CC and they only get to shoot once. And yes, they need to have Overwatch, because that's what gives them permission to use DF. Pg. 56.

Skriker wrote:

matphat wrote:Bikers only get +1 to Toughness in shooting. (Impact bikers of all kinds in close combat)

This one makes perfect sense to me and should apply to all bikers. After all when you are being shot at from a far you and hunker down and try and make yourself a smaller target, but if you are leaning off your bike to hit someone with a CC weapon or they are attacking you in CC and are right next to you, it is harder for you to hide behind your bike. Pretty simple concept really and should apply to all bikes across the board IMO.

Skriker

except in CC I see a biker ramming, overrunning and spinning back like a bull never really giving you an opening like a gang of bikers would do to some poor chode...

yeah these rules have been making me sad as of late because it does limit the ork options, as a previous person had stated orks are suppose to be able to play different each match if they so choose from speed freaks, to foot slog to kan wall and anything between like Dakka line. This honestly nerfs us as well as most assualt armies (which if you hadn't noticed out number shooty armies) too much

I'm from Missouri, The show me state. and I think GW would be in a nightmarish storm before they would release the rules in their current incarnation without intense lash back due to them. 40k has never in it's edition changed so drastically I am lead to assume these rules were a shooter armies' desire to be competitive in assualt which if that is the case why make IG even more powerful?

My Prediction? It's a bunch of squig-dung and we should be patient

If you assault someone, they do NOT get to perform Defensive Fire unless they have overwatch. Overwatch is NOT an action all units can take, it is a special rule currently held by one model: Coteaz. A stratagem allows you to use it when near an objective but also gives the ability to your opponent.

You don't get cover saves from shooting through a unit normally, but there's an action the intervening unit can perform that gives cover saves to unit behind them.

Trukks and buggies are not tanks, so they are harder to hit than tanks.

Our wagons can move and fire three weapons - or remain stationary and fire six.

A transport that moves at combat speed only allows one model inside to fire but also affords it Relentless - SAGs can be fired from moving wagons.

A fast transport that moves at cruising speed allows the same - SAGs can be fired from fast moving trukks.
A fast transport that moves at combat speed allows as many models inside to fire as fire points, all if open topped and affords them relentless - Lootas in trukks?

Models with Template weapons can forgo their close combat attacks when they assault a unit to gain D6 attacks with their weapon. Nice little upgrade that makes flamers a little more useful - We have a unit of up to 15 template weapons.

With fleet you add +2 movement, which is added before doubling for running/charging - 7" wagon/trukk move +16" charge = 23" threat range.

I'm trying to puzzle through the changes to my warbike army, so bear with me.

Bikes are Move 8, Fast, Jink, Flesh & Steel, Multi-Targeting (1).

From what I can tell warbikes can...
Move Flat Out and move 24" but not do much of anything else.
Move 16" and still shoot.
Charge 16" and, if they are no longer locked in close combat, still shoot.
Remain stationary and shoot their Dakka guns once and their Sluggas once (yay... Shootas for Nobz? Hurm... need to look at Codex... ).

Warbikes are T5 when being shot at, T4 when in close combat.
Warbikes are -1 to hit (basically) when being shot at.

Warbike Dakkaguns give +1 attack the turn that the model charges if the model is armed with a one-handed primary close combat weapon, no bonus if the model can already claim the bonus for having 2 weapons (basically: a powerklaw nob/warboss on a warbike gets +1 attack when they charge from the dakkaguns).

Does that seem right?

Rafi wrote:(basically: a powerklaw nob/warboss on a warbike gets +1 attack when they charge from the dakkaguns).

Does that seem right?

Alas not, a PK is a 'coarse weapon' and can only gain an additional attack if the second one is the same.

Where has everyone scored copies of these rules from? I'm still pretty new to 5th edition and think that changing things now sucks. When do the new rules get released?