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So I've been playing Warhammer for about 2 years now and in my play group we seem to do wound allocation correctly, for the most part, where same models take their saves at the same time etc etc.

However the book had instructed that whole models must be removed when possible, so when an HQ, lets say Vulkan, joins a squad we were allocating wounds this way:

Squad takes 3 wounds, 3 wounds were put on Vulkan, Vulkan then takes a 2+ armor save. Basically the way we have always done it is once you start allocating wounds on a HQ you had to 'fill them up (in this case 3 wounds was his max wounds anyways) to 'remove whole models."

My question is, in the type of scenario would one have to allocate wounds this way:

Vulkan 1
Others members of the squad 2 (assuming there were enough models)?

I just wanted some clarification as some models with 2+ armor saves, 3-4 wounds, and potentially feel no pain, were a bit over-powered it seems, just wanted to verify the 'correct' way to allocate these types of wounds.

Your second scenario is correct. You must assign one wound to everyone from the same model group until everyone has one, before you can assign a second wound... or a third for that matter.

While this can lead to people grouping the instant death or low AP wounds on a single wargear model group (e.g. that poor poor flamer tends to always be the sad marine to get all the power weapon hits, when in close combat), this is the correct way to do it in 5th edition.

That is why you may hear so much complaining about 2 wound termies or nobs with different wargear options...

Revarien wrote:Your second scenario is correct. You must assign one wound to everyone from the same model group until everyone has one, before you can assign a second wound... or a third for that matter.

While this can lead to people grouping the instant death or low AP wounds on a single wargear model group (e.g. that poor poor flamer tends to always be the sad marine to get all the power weapon hits, when in close combat), this is the correct way to do it in 5th edition.

That is why you may hear so much complaining about 2 wound termies or nobs with different wargear options...

Thanks for the response, will have to quote the book on the instant death wounds though:
Page 26, second to last paragraph. Whole unwounded models must be removed first for each unsaved wound that would cause instant death.

the way its done, 4 wounds allocated

Hive Tyrant
Tyrant Guard 11 dead guard
Tyrant Guard 11 dead guard
Tyrant Guard

Hive Tyrant 1
Tyrant Guard w/ Scything talons 1
Tyrant Guard w/ Bonesword 1
Tyrant Guard w/ Lashwhip 1

Your getting 2 rules mixed together.

When allocating wounds you need to make sure each model has one wound allocated to it before someone gets a second wound.
On page 25 of the rule book "The player must allocate one wound to each model in the target unit before he can allocate a second wound to the same model."

So lets say you have Vulcan and 4 regular marines.

Vulcan's squad is being shot at by a squad of dirty chaos marines. The chaos player ends up doing 3 wounds to Vulcan's squad. You now get to decide who takes the wounds. Since the rule states that every model has to have been allocated one wound before you can give any a second wound no one in the unit can be assigned more than one wound. you give 3 wounds to 3 of the regular marines and roll to save.

Now lets say they got lucky and rolled 6 wounds to Vulcan's squad. You assign one to each model then decide who gets the extra wound. You can give 2 to vulcan or 5 to the marines. The easiest way to figure this out visually is to grab a dice for each save you need to make and place them one by one next to the models needing to take the wounds. once each model has one dice next to it you can start placing the extra dice one at a time till everyone has 2 and so on.

So lets say you have Vulcan a flamer and 3 regular marines.

the guy with the flamer is not the same model as the tac marines, so now he is his own group for wounds. Lets say its close combat and you have 6 wounds coming at you (5 regular and one power weapon.) You can now choose who you want to take the power weapon hit, either vulcan because he has extra wounds so you dont loose a model, or you could place it on a regular marine to save a wound for vulcan. Figure out who is expendable, give them the wound then allocate the other 5. Remember in the end you have 3 groups Vulcan, flamer, tac marines. One of those groups will be assigned the extra wound, your choice.

Your quote Page 26, second to last paragraph. "Whole unwounded models must be removed first for each unsaved wound that would cause instant death"

This has to do with a squad that consists of multiple models that all have more than one wound and are the same. Read the section in the book above where you quoted from.

Imagine i had a squad of 2 chaos obliterators. These models have 2 wounds each. Lets pretend that last round you shot at my obliteraters and did one wound, i get to allocate that wound to the squad so now i have one obliterator with 1 wound and one with 2. Next turn you shoot my obliterators with a las cannon. My obliterators are toughness 4 and a lascannon is strength 9, the lascannon doubles my toughness, which means if i don't save against the wound one of my models will die to instant death. It used to be that i could just make it so it killed the model that only had one wound left, but the rule you quoted now makes me kill the model that has not been wounded. So i have to take the model that has 2 wounds left not the one that only has one.

This rule is only for if you have a squad on models that have multiple wounds and are the same models, If Vulcan was somehow in the squad with my 2 obliterators and my obliterators both only had one wound, you could still choose to put the wound on an obliterator because you get to choose the type of model that got hit.

It sounds confusing, but once you start lining up dice it starts to make sense.

dionysus wrote:Your getting 2 rules mixed together.

When allocating wounds you need to make sure each model has one wound allocated to it before someone gets a second wound.
On page 25 of the rule book "The player must allocate one wound to each model in the target unit before he can allocate a second wound to the same model."

So lets say you have Vulcan and 4 regular marines.

Vulcan's squad is being shot at by a squad of dirty chaos marines. The chaos player ends up doing 3 wounds to Vulcan's squad. You now get to decide who takes the wounds. Since the rule states that every model has to have been allocated one wound before you can give any a second wound no one in the unit can be assigned more than one wound. you give 3 wounds to 3 of the regular marines and roll to save.

Now lets say they got lucky and rolled 6 wounds to Vulcan's squad. You assign one to each model then decide who gets the extra wound. You can give 2 to vulcan or 5 to the marines. The easiest way to figure this out visually is to grab a dice for each save you need to make and place them one by one next to the models needing to take the wounds. once each model has one dice next to it you can start placing the extra dice one at a time till everyone has 2 and so on.

So lets say you have Vulcan a flamer and 3 regular marines.

the guy with the flamer is not the same model as the tac marines, so now he is his own group for wounds. Lets say its close combat and you have 6 wounds coming at you (5 regular and one power weapon.) You can now choose who you want to take the power weapon hit, either vulcan because he has extra wounds so you dont loose a model, or you could place it on a regular marine to save a wound for vulcan. Figure out who is expendable, give them the wound then allocate the other 5. Remember in the end you have 3 groups Vulcan, flamer, tac marines. One of those groups will be assigned the extra wound, your choice.

Your quote Page 26, second to last paragraph. "Whole unwounded models must be removed first for each unsaved wound that would cause instant death"

This has to do with a squad that consists of multiple models that all have more than one wound and are the same. Read the section in the book above where you quoted from.

Imagine i had a squad of 2 chaos obliterators. These models have 2 wounds each. Lets pretend that last round you shot at my obliteraters and did one wound, i get to allocate that wound to the squad so now i have one obliterator with 1 wound and one with 2. Next turn you shoot my obliterators with a las cannon. My obliterators are toughness 4 and a lascannon is strength 9, the lascannon doubles my toughness, which means if i don't save against the wound one of my models will die to instant death. It used to be that i could just make it so it killed the model that only had one wound left, but the rule you quoted now makes me kill the model that has not been wounded. So i have to take the model that has 2 wounds left not the one that only has one.

This rule is only for if you have a squad on models that have multiple wounds and are the same models, If Vulcan was somehow in the squad with my 2 obliterators and my obliterators both only had one wound, you could still choose to put the wound on an obliterator because you get to choose the type of model that got hit.

It sounds confusing, but once you start lining up dice it starts to make sense.

Your explanation is much appreciate and considerably helpful, I thank you.

broodstar wrote:the way its done, 4 wounds allocated

Hive Tyrant
Tyrant Guard 11 dead guard
Tyrant Guard 11 dead guard
Tyrant Guard

Hive Tyrant 1
Tyrant Guard w/ Scything talons 1
Tyrant Guard w/ Bonesword 1
Tyrant Guard w/ Lashwhip 1

I appreciate your response as well, however I could not make much sense of it lol.

broodstar wrote:Hive Tyrant 1
Tyrant Guard w/ Scything talons 1
Tyrant Guard w/ Bonesword 1
Tyrant Guard w/ Lashwhip 1

FYI you can't do this. All th guard have to be armed the same.