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Fear not, it says. And it means it as the attempt to terrorize and confuse didn't work.

Its one of the better HH novels, maybe more an action movie than a typical BL novel. Instead on cutting it apart in threads focusing on parts of it, I think a few new tidbits of heresy era background deserve to be in one place.

The battle of Calth is an event of betrayal. The Ultramarines mustering there attacked by those they called brothers.
The Ultramarines created an empire, Ultramar, 500 worlds, when other Legions just cared for conquest. Sure, the Word Bearers had been censured for their slow advancement, but the Ultras seem to get away with their empire-building. Maybe its the adherence to the imperial truth, to their Emperors orders ( nikaea ) and their Primarch being a candidate for Warmaster. Still there is nothing that makes the Ultras doubt the Word Bearers loyality so it seems and they will pay dearly for this mistake. Attention to detail is one of the concepts the well-organized Ultras follow, but they miss the most important one somehow...

Know no Fear has novels ahead and behind, those like Battle for the Abyss who describe the aquirement of a extraordinary vessel of the mechanicum ( possibly corrupted even so early ) and its venture to Calth, a place it never reaches. Others tell us of the battle when Nathaniel Garro recruts a librarian for his own mission at Calth and further short stories show us the creation of codex astartes "after Calth". All of them gathered around the reason the ultras were not able to respond to the Siege, which we learn of in KNF.

Now this novel has more than that.
Chapter 3, the future of the astartes as Gullliman sees it:



Ultramar could be an example of this line of thinking in the pre-heresy era, and maybe still is partially in M41. However this view upon the future of the Legiones Astartes is very different from those of his brethren, some of them doubted they got a place without War and in the outcast dead the hinted fate of the Thunder Warriors isn't one of further use but of tools to be dispatched at the end.
The Astartes not becoming rulers is a given in M41, at least outside systems granted to them as home.

The Primarch of the XIII Legion. A picture of him that may give us a hint how D.Abnett sees the others compared to Gullliman and I don't know if anyone could draw a real image from this:



Why the author put corax this way, i can't see, as the events on Istvaan weren't known to Gulliman then and Ferrus is part of that list which he would not if this was meant to be corax state after the dropsite massacre.
Its one take on Gulliman and his brothers tough. So 4 friends he got and 3 won't survive the HH....



To Gulliman, all priamrchs and their legions had a greater purpose than just to fight the Great Crusade.
Thats where his thoughts differ from those who have turned, who believed they would be "disposable".



Codex Astartes. His work , after Calth.
The war was not done then. Did he consider it over for him and his Legion?

One of the few descriptions of Legion organization we have so far:



This pretty much confirms where he got his codex structure from. And the size of the XIII. Once, before Calth that is.
Seems the 2nd founding was just a downsizing of the old 100 x 1000 to 10 x 100.

The Ultramarine fleet gathered at Calth:



So 1 Flagship and 18 Capital ships to carry the 200.000 UM. Plus all the troop carriers, mechanicum vessels and cruisers and battleships...
A vast fleet assembled. At anchor, suspecting no harm. Feeling safe beneath the vigilant defensive installations.

All the while the WordBearers and their allies build up on the ambush.



Everything runs according to plan. Except the plan with the Abyss of course, but this won't stop the whole operation.
The Ultras will later set a mark, where they consider the hostilities as opened and it will not end and still runs in M41.....

The actions of Gulliman are aimed to fulfil what he deems the Warmaster has in mind, but as we know this isn't a good guess as his brothers have turned and his trust is endangering him and his Legion at that point.



A good point, but already too late.

How Gulliman sees Lorgar:



Only his status as a brother saves Lorgar from being disposed. Some like Corax actually tried to end his presence and only a
not so sane brother kept him as part of the story. Makes for a perfect arch villain later......

His dark apostle, Erebus is busy at the surface of Calth.:




So which 'Tarik' was offered there..


The beginning of the ritual marks the real offensive.
The time code starts.
Legio XVII and its minions attack the XIII, who unaware of the snake at their chest are hit without any resistance.
Big Xplosions lots of FX, a well played action movie from now on. The poor ultras ....

Its a nice ride and something a few of the authors of the HH series should consider as a successful and welcome element.
Once, just for once the series provided a novel that drove it out of the mud. The mud , the cart of the series was stuck in with those slow pacing and partially inconsistent novels we had to endure. ( yes i admit, this isn't the best way to put it, but I am sick and tired of waiting for a bit more action in a series about a civil war. ). Mind you all of this personal opinion and I don't claim to be a good reviewer..

Moving on there are some easy to miss bits, like this:



Now as part of super-heavies some may remember what this could be. Are they back as a concept? Or just a nod to those who like it?

Weapons are used, which sound not familiar:



The main goal is to:

The punishment and annihilation of the XIII is its principal aim; the humiliation and execution of the wretched Roboute Gulliman. But its also an advancement, a step on the spiral path of the great ritual.

Was it achieved? Or did they fail, like they failed their Emperor, so they failed their Warmaster.

They managed to cripple the XIII's fleet. To ruin their staging post. To reduce the largest Legion a bit. Maybe even keep them out of the fight as the short stories suggest they were not able to get back to Terra in time. But they utterly failed to take them out. To deny the IoM their organizational talents. I 'll go so far to say they completly got the opposite. More influence for the XIII in the Imperium. A church who deifies the one they have renounced as their God. Sounds like success, doesn't it?

When Gulliman accepts his brother is lost:



Lorgar isn't unhappy with this, he specifically likes it. Finally his brother shows temper. So he does his best to make him more angry.
Isn't something that should be repeated, maybe, but it contains things like gutting and skinning etc etc
Lorgar boasts a lot of his idea of truth and how Horus will rule. but he makes also mistakes. Like this:



Ok Ferrus isn't anymore, except GW pulls a stunt and puts his personality into his necron-tech based hands... but Vulkan isn't confirmed one or the other and Corax was at Lorgars throat before Konny saved his sorry ass. Maybe he thinks Corax is dead. We know he escaped.....
Thus its an example of the madness that caught Lorgar when he looked into the warp. Can't separate truth and wishful thinking anymore...

Gullimans response isn't unexpected but to see this term used.



seems like a few things are relocated from our actual vocabular in 40k background into the heresy era.

Also a return to the storyline from legion. A character is back and a old one, who wasn't part of the background of late, too.



One to face the threat of ..... the final confrontation at the siege.
A possibility, a story arc that may come to pass. Not sure, as it isn't impossible to alter the course a few times until we reach the end.
If he stays, his age and status open a few paths:



There are not many things to be found out about the Word Bearers as this focuses on the Ultras. Only some small :



Attention to detail. Lorgar the grammar nazi....
In this, he is not so different from his former brother, who also wrote a lot of words. Maybe the punsihment is different....

Still, the traitors in crimson red have not much positive to say about their opposition:



The problem is those WB think they know enough. TS would have disagreed....
Sure its common to set your PoV high above all else. But it may be your undoing...when you underestimate.

So another point that is following the formerly released short stories:



The theoreticals have been compromised, as the enemy knows the "answers" as much as the UM and this made them predictable.

But the Primarch isn't frozen and adapts to the change:



At least the codex wouldn't follow the edict and just ignore it, I assume?

Gulliman puts faith in his ability to win any war if he has at least one of these four alongside:
Dorn, Russ, Sanguinius, Ferrus.
worst case scenario is he isn't there himself, isn't it? But its a theoretical and if GW wants to, raise dead isn't beyond their power...

Again something small, but nice to see:



A negative mark becomes the visual for a chain of command. Not perfect, but believable, given the way red stands out on blue.

The tide changes when the XIII reorganizes and fights back, when the scrap code is cleansed out and the fight is taken to the attackers.
The mistake made was to miss the clean kill. The WB even gain their Draigo moment, when Kor phaeron has his shot at Gulliman...
But again as standard template villains, too much talking. Ends like it always does.

The advantage is lost.

The WB were able to complete the ritual and split the galaxy with warpstorms to trap the loyalists.
But the XIII is only temporary disabled. A major error. Maybe one day a fatal one.

Retribution did come. In the form of the Ultras ending Colchis. And placing that banner from Calth right there.....

Not completely sure what your trying to say, but it was an interesting read with some good points in it none the less

I agree, not sure of the point of this, but well analyzed

Start a thread with almost no replies? Yes I can
Got it somehow not off. What I was trying to do, was to provide a few things that got missed beyond the timeline and ollanius debate.

Like KNF having Tylos Rubio, a UM librarian who obeys the edict of nikaea, in a very small paragraph that doesn't look important and just places him there to be picked up by N.Garro on his mission. OtoH Gulliman himself "thinks" at the end this edict needs to go...

So what do you guys think is the operational strength of the UM forces not trapped or killed on Calth. Seems with those late to the rendezvous and those not coming, the UM are at 100k+ with another 30k+ on Calth. Meaning the WB took out 50k+? Seems Like horrific losses for the UM, though it still leaves them stronger than probably any two legions after Terra.

the ultras had before calth, 250,000 astartes
at least 200,000 or 150,000 were present in calth

flota wrote:the ultras had before calth, 250,000 astartes
at least 200,000 or 150,000 were present in calth

Any guess at how many were leaving Calth?

Forces of about 30.000 Ultras are mentioned in the book at the counterattacks, so 20 to 50.000 maybe.
Still their assets at Ultramar weren't harmed since the furious abyss was stopped.

I liked the book too.

Lobukia wrote:So what do you guys think is the operational strength of the UM forces not trapped or killed on Calth. Seems with those late to the rendezvous and those not coming, the UM are at 100k+ with another 30k+ on Calth. Meaning the WB took out 50k+? Seems Like horrific losses for the UM, though it still leaves them stronger than probably any two legions after Terra.

The original fluff had them larger than the other Chapters after The Scouring due to their speed of replacements. The Ultramarines were fielding more Marines because their recruitment and training process was so much better than any of the other Legions. It's probably a small part because their Primarch was the greatest of the (remaining) SM generals and the strategies and tactics that would become the Codex Astartes helped them win battles with less casualties too.

So the Ultramarines' eventual numerical superiority (~65% of the total) will come not just from the casualties sustained by the other Legions (which will probably be staggering considering they are still adhering to the 1 Space Wolves successor chapter idea) but because they are able to fight out the Heresy (It's already been confirmed the Ultramarines will not be bystanders in the rest of the story) and the Scouring while at the same time minimizing and replacing their casualties at a rate that allowed for rapid growth. Remember, Ultramar is now 500 worlds, not 8. So that entire part of the Ultima Segmentum is essentially just churning out new Ultramarines as fast as suitable candidates can be found and trained.

So do you think those 500 worlds get divided out to successor chapters? Makes the White Consuls in the Dark Adept series suddenly make more sense (they still train in Ultramar). And IIRC the Iron Snakes were similar. Maybe we can assume a very real and tight relationship still exists among many of the 500 worlds and Ultramar in the Calgar Period.

Lobukia wrote:So do you think those 500 worlds get divided out to successor chapters? Makes the White Consuls in the Dark Adept series suddenly make more sense (they still train in Ultramar). And IIRC the Iron Snakes were similar. Maybe we can assume a very real and tight relationship still exists among many of the 500 worlds and Ultramar in the Calgar Period.

It would make a lot of sense that the Ultramarine successors still have bonds and pacts. The Mortifactors and the Ultramarines had an oath together in the 2nd Uriel Ventris book despite how much of a schism there has been in the Mortifactors methods.

Lobukia wrote:So do you think those 500 worlds get divided out to successor chapters? Makes the White Consuls in the Dark Adept series suddenly make more sense (they still train in Ultramar). And IIRC the Iron Snakes were similar. Maybe we can assume a very real and tight relationship still exists among many of the 500 worlds and Ultramar in the Calgar Period.

I would imagine the bulk of Ultramarines Successors are based in the Galactic East.

The 500 worlds would have probably been awarded to 2nd Founding Chatpers, or absorbed back into the Imperium.

But, when you think about it, this really gives some credence to the wording of the 5th Ed C:SM, explaining how the Ultramarines wield so much power amongst their successors. Remember, for the 2nd Founding chapters, they will likely have pride in their own Chapter, but ultimately, their original Marines were Ultramarines. It makes complete sense that they'd look at Guilliman as their Primarch (he is) and might even consider themselves Ultramarines in everything but name.

Is this in the spirit of Guilliman's decrees in the Codex Astartes? Probably not. But it's definitely a fair assumption that the Galactic East is essentially run through Ultramar given the sheer number of Ultramarines successors there would be floating around, all playing on more or less the same team.

Interesting you could make such a lengthy dissertation on a novel that cannot exist within the established timeline. It's impossible to take anything in it seriously since it some how occurs after Istvaan V.

While the established timeline does introduce some plot and timeline complications, I think that claiming it to be "impossible" is a bit extreme.

DarknessEternal wrote:Interesting you could make such a lengthy dissertation on a novel that cannot exist within the established timeline. It's impossible to take anything in it seriously since it some how occurs after Istvaan V.

But it has to. Lorgar and all his legion were present in the massacre. This fact has never changed (well in many years)

Raulmichile wrote:
But it has to. Lorgar and all his legion were present in the massacre. This fact has never changed (well in many years)

Yes, and the battle of Calth is new to the HH series. There were years between Istvaan 3 and any return of forces from Istvaan 5. It's not possible for Horus to still be unknown as a traitor in this timeline, as it was known to the lowest levels of the Imperium at this time (even as just a rumor). That Guilliman, who's empire was sort of near Istvaan anyway, was totally unaware of the most widespread news in the Imperium for years, is moronic or impossible.

Given how absurd it would seem to Guilliman he may have dismissed the rumors as heretical. His pride blinding him to the truth that his brothers were corrupted.

Surtur wrote:Given how absurd it would seem to Guilliman he may have dismissed the rumors as heretical. His pride blinding him to the truth that his brothers were corrupted.

This was after Istvaan V. Ferrus Manus was already killed, while the Raven Guard, Salamanders, and Iron Hands nearly wiped out. The extent of Istvaan V may not have been known to him, but the extant of the effort leading up to Istvaan V certainly was. The armada sent to kill Horus took a year to develop. It also was not a fleet to ask what was going on. They were specifically going to wipe out 3 Legions.

Horus would have been a known traitor for years before Calth.

Surtur wrote:Given how absurd it would seem to Guilliman he may have dismissed the rumors as heretical. His pride blinding him to the truth that his brothers were corrupted.

I doubt it. Guilliman was the most practical and rational of the Primarchs. If he was told that seven legions had turned traitor, he would have at least considered it, and certainly wouldn't have allowed the Word Bearers to approach unchallenged and with his own fleet unaware.

No, he was definitely not told. And this is the real problem with the timing. Istvaan V was seven legions being mobilized to attack four more that had turned traitor. This was an event entirely without precedent, and no way that it doesn't get reported across the Imperium by just about everyone. It would be easier to believe that Istvaan V and Calth were more or less simultaneous, with only half (or less) of the Word Bearers present at Istvaan (leaving the other half to attack Calth). In fact, that's the way any general the caliber Horus was supposed to be would have planned it. My problem with the way it being set up, is that it requires way, way, way too much suspension of disbelief and hand-waving. Istvaan V was the most important (and catastrophic) event in the entire 30K timeline to date. Nothing would have been more shocking than five full legions going rogue. I can almost believe that news of what happened at Istvaan V might not have made it to Ultramar, but the fact that the Ultramarines had no idea? Preposterous. It's a continuity hole a mile wide.

Veteran Sergeant wrote: It would be easier to believe that Istvaan V and Calth were more or less simultaneous, with only half (or less) of the Word Bearers present at Istvaan (leaving the other half to attack Calth).

Except that definitely wasn't the case. Lorgar, at least, and nearly all of the Word Bearers (we don't know how many, but more than a couple ships worth missing is about it) were at Istvaan V for the duration of that action. Not only that, they were waiting around for weeks in the aftermath when Horus was holding his "look at me" parade.

The incident at Calth didn't start until after Lorgar and his entire command structure and fleet arrived at Calth. This would have been months later at minimum. By that time, Istvaan V had already been reported to the loyal Imperium.

Jonson, who was vastly further away and much less in the loop, learned of Istvaan 3 and planned and executed a raid that crossed the galaxy before Istvaan 5 took place. To say that Guilliman was ignorant of not only Istvaan 3, but the most monumentous fleet and attack planned in the Imperium's history, and the result of that battle, in the same time frame is ludicrous.

The problem with this timeline is that it never happened before this HH series. There was no battle of Calth. There was barely Ultramarine involvement or loss in the Heresy. That's why so many 2nd founding chapters were Ultras. This battle was invented for this series, but no steps were taken to make sure it could actually occur.

There was a battle of Calth and it coincided with the Siege of Terra, it was what prevented them from assisting in time.

IA Word Bearers: When the Word Bearers launched their attack against the Ultramarines, the strike against Calth was led by one of Lorgar's greatest champions, the former Master of the Faith, Kor Phaeron. This mighty champion swore to utterly destroy the planet, and was very nearly successful. From his personal battle barge, now renamed Infidus Imperator, Kor Phaeron directed a full-scale invasion of the Calth System.

IA Word Bearers: While Kor Phaeron set his men upon Calth, Lorgar was leading the rest of the Legion against Terra

IA Ultramarines: Their very successes had carried them far from Horus' armies in the north-east and Guilliman did not receive word of the betrayal until the battle for Terra was under way. Gathering his Legion, Guilliman led his forces towards Terra, en route destroying a rebel fleet on its way to reinforce Horus.

Old stuff I admit.

Surtur wrote:Given how absurd it would seem to Guilliman he may have dismissed the rumors as heretical. His pride blinding him to the truth that his brothers were corrupted.

Guilliman is not Russ

Ah, ok.

So the problem is trying to move the battle of Calth up to the beginning of the Heresy instead of the end.

DarknessEternal wrote:Ah, ok.

So the problem is trying to move the battle of Calth up to the beginning of the Heresy instead of the end.

It seems to have changed in Collected Visions though to how it is now.

If KNF happens at the same time as V then it would definitely fit as the WB are still falsely loyal, but having it after just seems wrong. The reason why the Ultras don't receive a message is because of the warp being so ropey at the time, but the WB had to get there, so the warp was calm enough for them, as did Garro, to pick up Rubio.

So the WB had the Daemons on there side to calm it, but a calm warp is calm regardless.

Yeah, but it took 10 months to gather the fleet to send to Istvaan 5 (then the fighting there) and was not a secret. Then they're travel time. Contending that the Ultras, notorious for details, didn't get word of the greatest outrage in Imperium's history, anywhere in their vast empire is outside of believable.