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Debating between these two lists for an 1850 tourney this weekend. leaning towards the second as it adds lootas at expence of the pk on the big mek and taking the rokkits (at BS2 anyway) in favor of the big shootas for 12 str5 shots per bw per turn. could shave down to 2 guns per bw... but hard to think of a better place to put the 30 points




HQ
Ghaz 225
Big Mek kff w/ 2 grot oilers and pk 120

Elite
8 burnas w/ 1 mek w/ grot oiler 140

Troop
Nobz total 380
1. painboy w/ cybork and grot orderly 60
2. waagh banner cybork pk 65
3. pk, cybork, bp 55
4. pk cybork, 50
5. cybork big choppa 30
6. cybork , kombi skorcha 30
7. cybork 25
8. cybork and eavy armor 30
9. cybork eavy armor big choppa 35

20 boyz w/ nob pk and bp 160

Fast Attack
3x rokkit buggies 105
3x rokkit buggies 105
3x rokkit buggies 105

Heavy Support
Battle Wagon: rolla, 4 rokkits, plates, grot riggers, rpj 170
Battle Wagon: rolla, 4 rokkits, plates, grot riggers, rpj 170
Battle Wagon: rolla, 4 rokkits, plates, grot riggers, rpj 170

1850 total

or


HQ
Ghaz 225
Big Mek kff w/ 2 grot oilers and cybork 105

Elite
8 burnas w/ 1 mek w/ grot oiler 140

5 lootas 75

Troop
Nobz total 380
1. painboy w/ cybork and grot orderly 60
2. waagh banner cybork pk 65
3. pk, cybork, bp 55
4. pk cybork, 50
5. cybork big choppa 30
6. cybork , kombi skorcha 30
7. cybork 25
8. cybork and eavy armor 30

20 boyz w/ nob pk and bp 160

Fast Attack
3x rokkit buggies 105
3x rokkit buggies 105
3x rokkit buggies 105

Heavy Support
Battle Wagon: rolla, 4 big shootas, plates, grot riggers, rpj 150
Battle Wagon: rolla, 4 big shootas, plates, grot riggers, rpj 150
Battle Wagon: rolla, 4 big shootas, plates, grot riggers, rpj 150

1850

any advice is appreciated, this is to be a all comers tourney list

Drop the Mek upgrade in the Burna squad, it is a waste of a unit and another burna template would be better.

Drop the guns on the BWs down to 1 and grab more Boyz, 20 is way too few, especially at 1850+. Also, drop the Riggers from the BW that the KFF rides in, he can repair it on his own.

Also, your Nobz can take a BW as a dedicated transport so you can free up a heavy support slot.

The idea with the meks is redundancy, grot riggers to repair guns and immobalise as well as having the grot oilers. really it is to combat immobalization. I'd consider dorppign a BW to 2 guns but never just one to easy to make a weapon destroy result into an imobalize, a few glances and you oculd easily get a wepon destoyed then a weapon destroyed to immobalize then an imobalize to a wreck

I understand; however, all this redundancy you have in your list is also forcing you down to only 20 Boyz. You only have 2 scoring units at 1850, one of which is 20 Boyz that are not the most durable of things in 40k so 1 assault and you may be down to just your Nobz (depending on how the dice roll). You need more Boyz and honestly the redundancy is a waste of points IMO.

I mean you have 85 points sunk into redundancy, that is enough for 12 Boyz w/ Nob (and ends up being 2-3 points short of BP). Which is a lot IMO, especially when you only have 1 squad of Boyz.

I only have 8 burna models so would onyl be able to drop one from squad not turn him into another burner. more troops woudl be nice, but I liek to tuck my lootas somewhere out of the way and keep everything flyign around in wagons, i would try to squeeze in a trukk but i don't have any, I have a couple looted wagons though and i have over a hundred boys models could play with numbers to add the looted wagon in with boys inside


Automatically Appended Next Post:
potential idea... 2 shootas per wagon drops 30 points, dorp cybork from big mek for another 10 points, up to 40 poitns, buy 10 grots and a ruth

drop the grot oilers and the regular mek in the burner squad for 30 points one rokkit buggie for 35 frees up 65 points total... looted wagon with grot riggers, ard case rpj, and 2 big shootas for a mobile armored troop zip it 7 inches per turn to shoot and still only be hit on 6's if its caught. keep it ttrying to hold an objective or within zippign distance

missions were posted today for the 1850, killpoints, objectives (5) and table quarters. rotating each round as primary, secondary and tertiary. primary is 16 points, secondary is 8, tertiary is 4 points.

winner will be based on win/loss ratio and battlepooints total to break ties. so I think the grot wagon might be a good plan

add for changes available models are,
100 more ork boys
6 mega nobz,
one trukk,
2 looted wagons
9 heavy gunz
2 warbosses if i decide not to use ghaz, both are pk, bp, cybork (AoBR bosses
the 10 gretchin
9 deff koptas (prefer rokkit buggies though)
3 meks
2 sag big meks
15 bike boyz
9 biker nobz diversified the same as above
warboss on a bike with pk bp cybork and squigg


given the mission I am debating taking a unit of manz, having them take a BW as a dedicated transport, then have them embark on the second looted wagon as a manz missle hiding behind the battle wagons with ard case upgrade... or just put em in a trukk to ge tthe points dorp ghaz for a warboss, warboss in burner wagon (or warboss on a bike) maybe take a few of the buggies out to pay for the difference

I think you should almost definitely field four battlewagons at 1850, but since you are missing the model, no point in advising that. Luckily you own nob bikerz, so there is a way to add more target saturation without the battlewagon. As their greatest weakness are high strength shots, they will take some heat of your battlewagons, while being just as mobile as mounted nobz. You'd have to drop Thrakka for that stunt, though.
I also agree with Khaos in all points, all that redundancy isn't needed, the point of grot riggers is to get the deff rolla up again eventually(and thus force your opponent to keep shooting a useless vehicle), not to have your battlewagon be invincible against immobilized results. Same for the big shootaz - if your battlewagon suffers two weapon destroyed results in the two turns it's actually relevant, something else is amiss - even it it's just your dice luck.

You also need more scoring units, otherwise will always lose that 5 objective game. Because of this, I would abandon the small burnaz unit, as they are unable to do anything but the template drive-by. So simply replace them with boyz.

One more point, your nobz unit is to large. Seven or eight nobz will crush anything in their path, so you shouldn't spend that many points on them. For the nob bikerz, I have never found to need more than five+Warboss to kill any given unit. If the unit survives that, you did something wrong anyways.

This would result in:

Biker warboss
KFF mek

20 Boyz
20 Boyz
19 Boyz(kff goes here)
10+1 gretchin
5 nob bikerz(warboss goes here)

3 rokkit buggies
3 rokkit buggies
3 rokkit buggies

Battlewagon, deff rolla, grot, armor, big shoota
Battlewagon, deff rolla, grot, armor, big shoota
Battlewagon, deff rolla, grot, armor, big shoota

You'd still have about 20 points left after all this, you can use those for a burna on your big mek, red paint on the battlewagons or rokkits/big shootaz in your boyz mobz.

I like i jidmah, but I still think I want the grots in a can.

what do you think of this

HQ (225)

warboss on bike w/ pk and cybork 135
big mek kff 85

Elites (410)

Nobz
waagh banner cybork pk 65
bp pk cybork 55
cybork pk 50
big choppa cybork 30
cybork kombio skorcha 30
painboy 50

dedicated transport BW plates , shoota, rolla and grots 130

Troops (729)
10 gretchin w/ ruth 40 (go in looted wagon)

Nob bikes (joined by warboss)
big choppa cybork 55
cybork waagh banner pk 90
cybork bp pk 80
cybokr pk 75
painboy on a bike 75

18 boyz w/ nob pk and bp 154 (big mek here)
19 boyz w/ nob bp and pk 160

fast attack (210)
2x rokkit buggies 70
3x rokkit buggies 105

heavy support (315)
BW plates , shoota, rolla and grots 130
BW plates , shoota, rolla and grots 130
looted wagon ard case shoota ad grots 55

total 1849

i think its a worthwhile trade 4 rokkit buggies for another nob squad and to protect the gretchin, and shrinking the nob squad to split and put on bikes(plus no ghaz) thoughts?

I don't think that the looted wagon will add anything to the grot's survival rate. When it explodes it wounds them on a 3+, killing six or so of them, and most likely another d3 get eaten by the squighound. I'd rather stick them in reserves and then go to ground whenever they are shot.

I also don't think that two nob squads are ever viable. They simply cost too many points compared to boyz and will die faster than them. One unit of them is great for taking down the one or two targets on the board that boyz can't tackle, but more will just decrease your model count.

Last point of criticism: If you lower your buggy count, spread them across as many units as possible. Shooting more targets and potentially not getting wrecked on an immobilize outweights immunity to stunned easily. It's also harder to kill three units of vehicles than to kill two, and you don't need the "invisible wall" the squadrons create, like you do with kanz.

I actually really liked the grot can, it held up all but one game, it only got popped in one game and that was from immobilize to wreck so they got out (hid it out of los for most things.

I agree with your assessment of to many nobz. they really can bring the pain, esp with 3 pk's per squad. I should have just gone with the bikes and had a bw with boyz though in the long run often they took to many wounds before the pk's all hit.

I did ok though, first game was a massacre, vanilla marines vs orks, I took kill points, tabale quarters and objectives. the opponent had a squad of scouts, 2 termies and a land raider alive in the end.

2nd game I got slaughtered... i have never beaten space wolves without a odd dakka list with 45 lootas and SAG. . their counter charge and jaws to take out the pk nob in boyz squad or the painboy is just ridiculous. (note this player took 1st place

3rd game was also against wolves. same result. I didn't have a chance. both players got reserve rolls in early infiltrated in and wrecked my backfield.. I did better on this one though the opponent wanted 3 inches to move up levels in terrain which boned my nobz (usually we play it as 2 inches but that’s my fault for saying ok to 3 inches) waagh roll of a 1 and assault in terrain roll of a 2 i couldn't get up a lvl to assault and my nobz got eaten in terrain. I learned from it though. note this player got 2nd place

I can't believe i got wolves twice, but what can ya do, thanks for help.

oh and i agree on buggies when they are that low i should have dropped them to 3 squads. the long fangs groups (3 total taken by both) missiled them all down quickly