Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Here's another vs. thread, this time for the Imperium. The Lord Commander of the Blood Angels against the "God of War" of the Ultramarines. I'm going with Lord Dante on this one, simply because he's older and more experienced, not to mention leader of a Chapter that originally rivalled the World Eaters in the close combat, as well as the fact that despite all WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRDDDDD!!!!!!'s efforts, Dante is still the most badass of all the Chapter Masters.
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
Simply because he can screw your armour saves, and Invulnerables.
Am I alone in thinking that Dante actually deserves EW more than Calgar? The oldest marine in existence, more prestigious than Lord Macragge, but so much weaker.
Although DMoS evens it out a lot.
BlapBlapBlap: bringing idiocy and mischief where it should never set foot since 2011.
BlapBlapBlap wrote:What sort of idiot quotes themselves in their sigs? Who could possibly be that arrogant?
BlapBlapBlap wrote:Dante in fluff. Calgar in game.
Simply because he can screw your armour saves, and Invulnerables.
Am I alone in thinking that Dante actually deserves EW more than Calgar? The oldest marine in existence, more prestigious than Lord Macragge, but so much weaker.
Although DMoS evens it out a lot.
That sucks and everyone knows it. Dante deserves better than Calgar.
Edit: Everyone keep in mind we should base our arguments (for this thread) on fluff, not TT rules.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/01 13:54:52
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
Well Calgar is the Liege Lord of 500 worlds, has well over 20,000 marines at his beck and call... plus if you look at his Apoc stats with Honour Guard (Legion Relic) he's not even going to pause in game fighting poor Dante.
If we're talking all out war... Calgar, no contest.
If we're talking company on company, Dante
In Game: Calgar... in fluff, hand to hand... I dunno. Terminator with dual PF just needs to surive long enough to hit, but I think Dante might get this one.
DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+ Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L) Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 Crimson Tide 59-4-0 Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2 One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners
Lobukia wrote:Well Calgar is the Liege Lord of 500 worlds, has well over 20,000 marines at his beck and call... plus if you look at his Apoc stats with Honour Guard (Legion Relic) he's not even going to pause in game fighting poor Dante.
If we're talking all out war... Calgar, no contest.
If we're talking company on company, Dante
In Game: Calgar... in fluff, hand to hand... I dunno. Terminator with dual PF just needs to surive long enough to hit, but I think Dante might get this one.
Hey, wait a minute! When and where did the Ultramarines suddenly become legion strength? And 500 worlds? The Realm of Ultramar only covers 7 systems. And the game stats are biased for the Ultramarines. Dante and the Blood Angels deserve as much credit and special mention as they do, if not more so.
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
Lobukia wrote:In Game: Calgar... in fluff, hand to hand... I dunno. Terminator with dual PF just needs to surive long enough to hit, but I think Dante might get this one.
Death Mask of Sanguinius is Dante's best friend. -1 Wound, Death Mask (Which isn't morale, so no God of War) - 1 Int, - 1 Attack and -1 WS. AP 2 Boltguns on Calgar are pretty ridiculous, but Dante has an Inferus Pistol and a Master Crafted Power Weapon.
Dante's not really intended to be supa-dupa-awesome in CC, but he can quite easily put up a fight.
BlapBlapBlap: bringing idiocy and mischief where it should never set foot since 2011.
BlapBlapBlap wrote:What sort of idiot quotes themselves in their sigs? Who could possibly be that arrogant?
In a straight 1 vs 1 fight based on the fluff then Dante will win. it'll be tough, but he has the advantages of manouverability and a melta pistol, with artificier armour malking his protection every bit as good as Calgar's.
Fluff wise, i gotta go with Dante, he's got wayyyy more experience on Calgar
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
Lobukia wrote:Well Calgar is the Liege Lord of 500 worlds, has well over 20,000 marines at his beck and call... plus if you look at his Apoc stats with Honour Guard (Legion Relic) he's not even going to pause in game fighting poor Dante.
If we're talking all out war... Calgar, no contest.
If we're talking company on company, Dante
In Game: Calgar... in fluff, hand to hand... I dunno. Terminator with dual PF just needs to surive long enough to hit, but I think Dante might get this one.
Hey, wait a minute! When and where did the Ultramarines suddenly become legion strength? And 500 worlds? The Realm of Ultramar only covers 7 systems. And the game stats are biased for the Ultramarines. Dante and the Blood Angels deserve as much credit and special mention as they do, if not more so.
I'm actually being conservative. If you look at the fluff on the White Consuls, Novamarines, Iron Snakes, etc, they all still hold allegiance to the old Ultramar (which was 500 worlds). In codex and GW fluff there are at least 20 chapters that have stated they will serve when Macragge calls (throughout the various times that Calgar has enacted the old Legion bonds). Much like the DA, the UM seem to have very strong ties to many of their successors and we know that captains of the sucessor legions often come to the Fortress of Hera for training and give oaths of loyalty to Emperor, Chapter, and Legion (in that order).
In theory, there are 250+ chapters made from the UM legion. It is mentioned that most hold to the old codex and give allegiance to Macragge. Let's say that's only half (125) are still loyal, and only half can respond (62), with only half their strength (31)... that's 30,000+ marines.... uftda BA!
BTW legion strength is 100,000 not 10,000 now. HH retconned that.
DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+ Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L) Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 Crimson Tide 59-4-0 Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2 One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners
Lobukia wrote:Well Calgar is the Liege Lord of 500 worlds, has well over 20,000 marines at his beck and call... plus if you look at his Apoc stats with Honour Guard (Legion Relic) he's not even going to pause in game fighting poor Dante.
If we're talking all out war... Calgar, no contest.
If we're talking company on company, Dante
In Game: Calgar... in fluff, hand to hand... I dunno. Terminator with dual PF just needs to surive long enough to hit, but I think Dante might get this one.
Hey, wait a minute! When and where did the Ultramarines suddenly become legion strength? And 500 worlds? The Realm of Ultramar only covers 7 systems. And the game stats are biased for the Ultramarines. Dante and the Blood Angels deserve as much credit and special mention as they do, if not more so.
I'm actually being conservative. If you look at the fluff on the White Consuls, Novamarines, Iron Snakes, etc, they all still hold allegiance to the old Ultramar (which was 500 worlds). In codex and GW fluff there are at least 20 chapters that have stated they will serve when Macragge
calls (throughout the various times that Calgar has enacted the old Legion bonds). Much like the DA, the UM seem to have very strong ties to many of their successors and we know that captains of the sucessor legions often come to the Fortress of Hera for training and give oaths of loyalty to Emperor, Chapter, and Legion (in that order).
In theory, there are 250+ chapters made from the UM legion. It is mentioned that most hold to the old codex and give allegiance to
Macragge. Let's say that's only half (125) are still loyal, and only half can respond (62), with only half their strength (31)... that's 30,000+ marines.... uftda BA!
BTW legion strength is 100,000 not 10,000 now. HH retconned that.
Ah, so you included their descendants. Can't argue with that; approximately three-fifths of the Astartes are descended from the Ultramarines...but as for the Legions, weren't the Word Bearers and the Ultramarines the only ones to reach a full hundred thousand Astartes? The other legions, barring Thousand Sons who maintained the minimum ten thousand, numbered between thirty and sixty thousand?
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
Lobukia wrote:Well Calgar is the Liege Lord of 500 worlds, has well over 20,000 marines at his beck and call... plus if you look at his Apoc stats with Honour Guard (Legion Relic) he's not even going to pause in game fighting poor Dante.
If we're talking all out war... Calgar, no contest.
If we're talking company on company, Dante
In Game: Calgar... in fluff, hand to hand... I dunno. Terminator with dual PF just needs to surive long enough to hit, but I think Dante might get this one.
Hey, wait a minute! When and where did the Ultramarines suddenly become legion strength? And 500 worlds? The Realm of Ultramar only covers 7 systems. And the game stats are biased for the Ultramarines. Dante and the Blood Angels deserve as much credit and special mention as they do, if not more so.
I'm actually being conservative. If you look at the fluff on the White Consuls, Novamarines, Iron Snakes, etc, they all still hold allegiance to the old Ultramar (which was 500 worlds). In codex and GW fluff there are at least 20 chapters that have stated they will serve when Macragge
calls (throughout the various times that Calgar has enacted the old Legion bonds). Much like the DA, the UM seem to have very strong ties to many of their successors and we know that captains of the sucessor legions often come to the Fortress of Hera for training and give oaths of loyalty to Emperor, Chapter, and Legion (in that order).
In theory, there are 250+ chapters made from the UM legion. It is mentioned that most hold to the old codex and give allegiance to
Macragge. Let's say that's only half (125) are still loyal, and only half can respond (62), with only half their strength (31)... that's 30,000+ marines.... uftda BA!
BTW legion strength is 100,000 not 10,000 now. HH retconned that.
Ah, so you included their descendants. Can't argue with that; approximately three-fifths of the Astartes are descended from the Ultramarines...but as for the Legions, weren't the Word Bearers and the Ultramarines the only ones to reach a full hundred thousand Astartes? The other legions, barring Thousand Sons who maintained the minimum ten thousand, numbered between thirty and sixty thousand?
Emperor's Children had 100 Companies, so they were at the 10,000 mark (I think?)
BlapBlapBlap: bringing idiocy and mischief where it should never set foot since 2011.
BlapBlapBlap wrote:What sort of idiot quotes themselves in their sigs? Who could possibly be that arrogant?
Fluff wise Dante will beat Calgar h2h. Partly because Dante has 1000+ years of experience compared to Calgar's what 200 (Roughly)
and from what I remember the DA and BA (Look at the Knights of blood declared traitors and still risk everything to defend Baal) , hold the closest ties with successors with IF being next closest (excluding the BT). The ultras have so many kids they struggle to remeber their names never mind sent them money while they're at college.
Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing
Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:Fluff wise Dante will beat Calgar h2h. Partly because Dante has 1000+ years of experience compared to Calgar's what 200 (Roughly)
By that logic, every Necron warrior should be able to beat either with ease, even both.
Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:Fluff wise Dante will beat Calgar h2h. Partly because Dante has 1000+ years of experience compared to Calgar's what 200 (Roughly)
By that logic, every Necron warrior should be able to beat either with ease, even both.
What logic would this be?
BlapBlapBlap: bringing idiocy and mischief where it should never set foot since 2011.
BlapBlapBlap wrote:What sort of idiot quotes themselves in their sigs? Who could possibly be that arrogant?
Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:Fluff wise Dante will beat Calgar h2h. Partly because Dante has 1000+ years of experience compared to Calgar's what 200 (Roughly)
By that logic, every Necron warrior should be able to beat either with ease, even both.
No because necrons are robots and slow as heck when trying to swing their gauss rifles in close combat
Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing
Brother SRM wrote:One has power fists, one doesn't have Eternal Warrior. Not much to it.
BlapBlapBlap wrote:Death Mask of Sanguinius is Dante's best friend. -1 Wound, Death Mask (Which isn't morale, so no God of War) - 1 Int, - 1 Attack and -1 WS. AP 2 Boltguns on Calgar are pretty ridiculous, but Dante has an Inferus Pistol and a Master Crafted Power Weapon.
Dante's not really intended to be supa-dupa-awesome in CC, but he can quite easily put up a fight.
I hate having to bring this up again.
BlapBlapBlap: bringing idiocy and mischief where it should never set foot since 2011.
BlapBlapBlap wrote:What sort of idiot quotes themselves in their sigs? Who could possibly be that arrogant?
Brother SRM wrote:One has power fists, one doesn't have Eternal Warrior. Not much to it.
BlapBlapBlap wrote:Death Mask of Sanguinius is Dante's best friend. -1 Wound, Death Mask (Which isn't morale, so no God of War) - 1 Int, - 1 Attack and -1 WS. AP 2 Boltguns on Calgar are pretty ridiculous, but Dante has an Inferus Pistol and a Master Crafted Power Weapon.
Dante's not really intended to be supa-dupa-awesome in CC, but he can quite easily put up a fight.
I hate having to bring this up again.
My money would still be on Calgar. He's still swinging with dual powerfists, so even with the debuffs from the mask, he is more than likely gonna gib him something good.
But we were supposed to keep this to fluff discussion not TT rules.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/01 16:15:40
Lobukia wrote:Well Calgar is the Liege Lord of 500 worlds, has well over 20,000 marines at his beck and call... plus if you look at his Apoc stats with Honour Guard (Legion Relic) he's not even going to pause in game fighting poor Dante.
If we're talking all out war... Calgar, no contest.
If we're talking company on company, Dante
In Game: Calgar... in fluff, hand to hand... I dunno. Terminator with dual PF just needs to surive long enough to hit, but I think Dante might get this one.
You gave Calgar his honor guard but you forget that with Dante comes Sanquinary Guard which sorry nullifies your honor guard and actually would eliminate them altogether plus leave the Sanguinary Guard still standing to help fight Calgar....that many relic weapons and death masks plus artificer armor....this isn't even a debate Dante wins hands down!!!
RxGhost wrote:Twilight doesn't have vampires.
If you frolic in the forest and sparkle in the sun you are a FAIRY, not a VAMPIRE.
Mortality is for those who are to afraid to be great!!
2500pts Oruscar Dynasty-The re-awakening has come 1500pts Angels Sanguine
Newly started WoC Army
Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:Fluff wise Dante will beat Calgar h2h. Partly because Dante has 1000+ years of experience compared to Calgar's what 200 (Roughly)
By that logic, every Necron warrior should be able to beat either with ease, even both.
What logic would this be?
The logic that there is a (positive) correlation between age and combat skill.
Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:Fluff wise Dante will beat Calgar h2h. Partly because Dante has 1000+ years of experience compared to Calgar's what 200 (Roughly)
By that logic, every Necron warrior should be able to beat either with ease, even both.
What logic would this be?
The logic that there is a (positive) correlation between age and combat skill.
Most Space Marines appear to abide by this rule.
BlapBlapBlap: bringing idiocy and mischief where it should never set foot since 2011.
BlapBlapBlap wrote:What sort of idiot quotes themselves in their sigs? Who could possibly be that arrogant?
Lobukia wrote:Well Calgar is the Liege Lord of 500 worlds, has well over 20,000 marines at his beck and call... plus if you look at his Apoc stats with Honour Guard (Legion Relic) he's not even going to pause in game fighting poor Dante.
If we're talking all out war... Calgar, no contest.
If we're talking company on company, Dante
In Game: Calgar... in fluff, hand to hand... I dunno. Terminator with dual PF just needs to surive long enough to hit, but I think Dante might get this one.
You gave Calgar his honor guard but you forget that with Dante comes Sanquinary Guard which sorry nullifies your honor guard and actually would eliminate them altogether plus leave the Sanguinary Guard still standing to help fight Calgar....that many relic weapons and death masks plus artificer armor....this isn't even a debate Dante wins hands down!!!
Legion Relic is an Apocalypse Strategic Asset. It's a power weapon that doubles it's wielder's base attacks and increases his strength to 10. Instant smash ensues.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
Lobukia wrote:Well Calgar is the Liege Lord of 500 worlds, has well over 20,000 marines at his beck and call... plus if you look at his Apoc stats with Honour Guard (Legion Relic) he's not even going to pause in game fighting poor Dante.
If we're talking all out war... Calgar, no contest.
If we're talking company on company, Dante
In Game: Calgar... in fluff, hand to hand... I dunno. Terminator with dual PF just needs to surive long enough to hit, but I think Dante might get this one.
You gave Calgar his honor guard but you forget that with Dante comes Sanquinary Guard which sorry nullifies your honor guard and actually would eliminate them altogether plus leave the Sanguinary Guard still standing to help fight Calgar....that many relic weapons and death masks plus artificer armor....this isn't even a debate Dante wins hands down!!!
Legion Relic is an Apocalypse Strategic Asset. It's a power weapon that doubles it's wielder's base attacks and increases his strength to 10. Instant smash ensues.
Chapter Banner and Red Thirst. The odds go in the favour of the BA again. And Death Masks can screw over your Legion Relic.
BlapBlapBlap: bringing idiocy and mischief where it should never set foot since 2011.
BlapBlapBlap wrote:What sort of idiot quotes themselves in their sigs? Who could possibly be that arrogant?
BlapBlapBlap wrote:
Most Space Marines appear to abide by this rule.
Well, to a correlation perhaps, but the causation might be the other way around. Also see Cassius and Calgar. Or Kharn and Zhufor. If anything, a prodigy in fighthing and warfare among space marines certainly helps for a Marine to live to become fairly old, but pure awesomeness can come to even the fairly young.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/01 19:13:50
BlapBlapBlap wrote:Most Space Marines appear to abide by this rule.
Well, to a correlation perhaps, but the causation might be the other way around. Also see Cassius and Calgar. Or Kharn and Zhufor. If anything, a prodigy in fighthing and warfare among space marines certainly helps for a Marine to live to become fairly old, but pure awesomeness can come to even the fairly young.
And the fact that Calgar bowed down to Dante and let him control the campaign for Armageddon seems to point to Dante being better.
BlapBlapBlap: bringing idiocy and mischief where it should never set foot since 2011.
BlapBlapBlap wrote:What sort of idiot quotes themselves in their sigs? Who could possibly be that arrogant?
BlapBlapBlap wrote:
And the fact that Calgar bowed down to Dante and let him control the campaign for Armageddon seems to point to Dante being better.
Perhaps he is. But if he is, age and years certainly have nothing to do with it. Also see Ragnar, who is noted to be particularly young. Younger than most "regular" Marines in fact and young certainly than any Space Wolf Long Fang, all of which he would easily beat 1-vs.-1 (or worse)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/01 19:19:49
Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 
Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 
Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 
Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 
Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 
Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 
Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 
Crimson Tide 59-4-0 
Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 
Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 
BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 
IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 
RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 
10000 pts
Newly started WoC Army 
