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This vs. thread is for the Tau, between Commanders Farsight and Shadowsun. I might be a little biased, but I'm going with Farsight simply because he's willing to go further than Shadowsun as he's no longer restrained by the Greater Good, and the fact that he actually accepts melee combat and not simply because he needs to as compared to standard Tau strategy.

And don't forget, arguments should be based on fluff, not TT rules.

Farsight, especially if this is fluff based... for a Tau, he is one tough dude

Although their methods are different, they are students from the same teacher. I'd say mutual destruction.

Though 1v1 Farsight seems like he would have the edge with his renown foresight.

I say Shadowsun, since at least part of her training, now, is specifically to destroy Farsight. I also think his defeat is more in tone with the Orwellian juggernaut vibe the Tau have going on.

Lobukia wrote:Farsight, especially if this is fluff based... for a Tau, he is one tough dude

Yep, Farsight is one of the most badass characters in the galaxy. Fights Orks for a long time, rebels against the greater good, finds a random sword and decides to bolt it onto his suit. He be crazy. I really hope he gets some more fluff in the newest Tau codex.


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crazyK wrote:Although their methods are different, they are students from the same teacher. I'd say mutual destruction.

Though 1v1 Farsight seems like he would have the edge with his renown foresight.

I forgot that they had the same teacher. He must be a badass if he trained two of the best commanders in the Tau Empire.

As much as I hate Farsight and I would love to see him dead, I'll have to give it to him. He is still one of the greatest Tau military commanders of all time and in the end really O'Shaserra is just a replacement for him, not an upgrade. I think if it came down in a one verse one; farsight would be able to pull off a win just do to having more experience.

After taking several weeks of practice using Farsight I can very well say that he is more beneficial on the TT rather than the expensive ds-ing suicide melta ld bubble, even at the cost of the ever fabled, all needed Railgun slot.
But this is TT stuff and shouldn't really contribute. I just merely wish to throw my 2 cents into the wishing well here.

1 on 1, we all know his obvious advantage. Army on army, Farsight again, from the idea that his unexplained extended life and more time to gain commanding experience on the field.


Shadowsun would have the advantage in a naval fight though as suggested by the Fight nids and not lose a single ship piece. Also that would be better supported by Farsight's break away faction maybe hinting that he may not have the best or most numerous of space fleets.

Farsight. All he has to do is get in close and bam.

You'd be surprised what the strength of one's convictions can give you. Farsight has abandoned everything he ever believed in. This can... undermine a man. I can see Farsight having a hard time killing Shadowsun, out of regret and respect. Shadowsun, though? She's a good person, strong in her faith. She could kill Farsight without hesitation.

Farsight didn't abandon everything and just walk away, he abandoned it in order to wipe out the Ork scourge. To him, anybody who stands in his way gets killed, and his actions are what will keep the Tau Empire alive.

He will not rest until every Ork on the Eastern Fringe is dead, and if that means going through Shadowsun herself, then so be it.

I am going to go with Shadowsun. Since one of her goals is to do away with farsighted and he probably doesn't he care that she is alive.

It won't really matter come the new codex anyway; Tau have very short lifespans compared to your regular, unaugmented human, and in the time spent waiting since their last codex added on to the ages they are in the fluff, they've probably both died of old age by now.

/Joke

Avatar 720 wrote:It won't really matter come the new codex anyway; Tau have very short lifespans compared to your regular, unaugmented human, and in the time spent waiting since their last codex added on to the ages they are in the fluff, they've probably both died of old age by now.

As has been pointed out in the farsight fluff, he's far older than normal, as he's at least Three Centuries Old by now.

I'm sorry, i'll edit my post.

Ah a joke, sorry. I've seen some serious posts in that vein before.

I believe more in Farsight however, he at least had the balls to do his thing when he felt something was going horribly wrong with the tau's stuff.

I'm fascinated by Farsight. I do not think he turned his back on the Tau, I think he saw a threat so great he was willing to branded a traitor in order to counter it. Simply in order to serve the greater good he had to sacrifice his reputation as a hero. (making him more of one)

Shadowsun on the other hand strikes me as one of those useful idiots.
In political jargon, useful idiot is a pejorative term used to describe people perceived as propagandists for a cause whose goals they do not understand, who are used cynically by the leaders of the cause.
I think the real question should be Farsight vs. Aun'va

Farsight, he's older and has more experience. Plus, that fancy sword allows to excel at close combat, giving him a step up from other Tau.

ElectricPaladin wrote:You'd be surprised what the strength of one's convictions can give you. Farsight has abandoned everything he ever believed in. This can... undermine a man. I can see Farsight having a hard time killing Shadowsun, out of regret and respect. Shadowsun, though? She's a good person, strong in her faith. She could kill Farsight without hesitation.

Farsight only abandoned the Greater Good, not the Tau. His convictions are to protect the Tau from threats they simply cannot see, or rather the threats the Ethereals don't see. The Tau themselves have a lot of potential, but their naivete could be their undoing. That's what Farsight has seen; as far as he's concerned, instead of being accepting, the Tau should be more xenophobic and protective of themselves if they are to survive in the long run.

"Each must find their own way. If those in our heartland had witnessed the savageries of the void as have we they would know this. The hand of each of the starfarers is turned against the other; none will join their strength together just to see their ancient enemies prosper. Neither should we." - Commander Farsight

Some say Farsight has fallen under Chaos or C'tan influence. IMO, he simply made use of genetic technology - a product of the famed Tau innovators - forbidden by the Ethereals (or restricted for their personal use, I wouldn't be surprised if they did that) to indefinitely extend his lifespan.

Tun_Tau wrote:
I think the real question should be Farsight vs. Aun'va

If that happened, and all Ethereals were killed by Farsight, then the Tau will become much more than a mere frontier threat.

All Ethereals dying could well by a double-edged sword.

On the one hand, the Tau would become a lot less trusting and a lot less reserved, but on the other, the Empire could easily fragment and break apart. The Ethereals are what joined the Tau together, without them it could well fall apart.

In my opinion, Aun'Va has made a large mistake in branding Farsight a rebel; he poses no threat to the Empire; he manufactures his own battlesuits and doesn't exactly make a panty-raid into the Empire everytime they run out of clean underwear; he is preventing the Orks on the Eastern Fringe from ever banding together and becoming a prominent threat, and none of this at the expense of the Empire itself.

If anything he should be left to his own devices; surely such a figure of wisdom can figure out that he's doing the Empire a service and allowing them to concentrate on other things.

Aun'Va's closed-mindedness will be the undoing of the Tau Empire; the idea that everything can be solved using one aspect of war is false, and Farsight himself is living proof that the Tau ideals are what threatens them, not their enemies; until he accepts that some degree of preventative action and digression from the Tau code is the way forward, the Tau Empire cannot expand or become the power it seeks to be.

I would not be surprised if there's a complete overhaul of the Tau fluff in the new codex; the Necrons overthrew the C'Tan and became more than emotionless machines; the Grey Knights became more badass than originally protrayed; GW seem to be setting a trend of changing fluff quite significantly, and the overthrowing of Aun'Va in favour of a visionary Ethereal would set the ball rolling for the Empire to become greater.

Avatar 720 wrote:All Ethereals dying could well by a double-edged sword.

On the one hand, the Tau would become a lot less trusting and a lot less reserved, but on the other, the Empire could easily fragment and break apart. The Ethereals are what joined the Tau together, without them it could well fall apart.

In my opinion, Aun'Va has made a large mistake in branding Farsight a rebel; he poses no threat to the Empire; he manufactures his own battlesuits and doesn't exactly make a panty-raid into the Empire everytime they run out of clean underwear; he is preventing the Orks on the Eastern Fringe from ever banding together and becoming a prominent threat, and none of this at the expense of the Empire itself.

If anything he should be left to his own devices; surely such a figure of wisdom can figure out that he's doing the Empire a service and allowing them to concentrate on other things.

Aun'Va's closed-mindedness will be the undoing of the Tau Empire; the idea that everything can be solved using one aspect of war is false, and Farsight himself is living proof that the Tau ideals are what threatens them, not their enemies; until he accepts that some degree of preventative action and digression from the Tau code is the way forward, the Tau Empire cannot expand or become the power it seeks to be.

I would not be surprised if there's a complete overhaul of the Tau fluff in the new codex; the Necrons overthrew the C'Tan and became more than emotionless machines; the Grey Knights became more badass than originally protrayed; GW seem to be setting a trend of changing fluff quite significantly, and the overthrowing of Aun'Va in favour of a visionary Ethereal would set the ball rolling for the Empire to become greater.

Nicely said.
I believe this Ethereal could be the one for the job. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Aun%27shi
I think Farsight and Aun'shi would be a perfect match to get the ball rolling. Like you said Aun'Va mindset could be the undoing of the Tau.

Avatar 720 wrote:All Ethereals dying could well by a double-edged sword.

On the one hand, the Tau would become a lot less trusting and a lot less reserved, but on the other, the Empire could easily fragment and break apart. The Ethereals are what joined the Tau together, without them it could well fall apart.

In my opinion, Aun'Va has made a large mistake in branding Farsight a rebel; he poses no threat to the Empire; he manufactures his own battlesuits and doesn't exactly make a panty-raid into the Empire everytime they run out of clean underwear; he is preventing the Orks on the Eastern Fringe from ever banding together and becoming a prominent threat, and none of this at the expense of the Empire itself.

You mean like the how the Imperium treat the Tau? That would've have been a smarter move on his part.

Back on topic however, I have to jump on the Farsight boat. In my eyes he's the disillusioned veteran who's fighting for survival instead of some lofty ideals. Also, constantly being on the frontier would make anyone, original or replacement, lowly Fire Warrior to Crisis pilot, into something a fair-bit darker. Also, it'll help to make the Tau more "grimdark," and fit the setting, not that I really care about that.

And about Shadowsun, honestly she seems like a figurehead for the Etherelas than an excellent military leader. That's not to say she's some dumb poster-girl for whatever they're trying to sell, but that she's naive and inexperienced.

Finally, is it just me, or is it that with the Tau special characters, the few that we have, the trend is that they all grow jaded and bitter as they age? R'Myr hates the Imperium for killing his mentor, R'alai is labeled as vengeful and xenophobic, and the head-honcho, Farsight went and seceded from the Empire.