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I had a situation come up the other day that made me think.

I usually take a Chronometron b/c I've got Imotekh attached to one of my troop units, along with a lancetek. Then I usually take some limited number of other lanceteks, putting them into my other troops for some ranged AT capability. Pretty much standard. The unit with Imoteky I don't push forwards aggressively b/c I don't want to get Imotekh kakked early, so even though he's a Phaeron the unit as a whole isn't typically in the furballs like my Wraiths and Scarabs etc. This game, though, he did get into it - and damn that chronotek was useful. I'm thinking of swapping out one of the lanceteks for a second chronotek now, and throwing the extra one into another troop - pairing him up with a lancetek or despair-tek w/VoD.

There's still some disagreement on whether the single reroll applies to 2D6 rolls. If I could use the chronotek for morale, scatter, etc. it'd be a no-brainer. Even if I can't, for a two-turn span the other night my Imotekh unit was rerolling something or another virtually every other phase, both player turns. Very common to help out on an enemy fire-phase save, then an enemy CC-phase roll. For just five points more I'm wondering if it's not worth it to give up the extra firepower for the added flexibility. (The single remaining pulsetek attached to a unit is even better than twin-linked, as he gets to reroll his pen/damage as well as his to-hit, ie, gives a retry on whichever of hit/pen/damage I roll a )

I roll a lot of 's.

Anybody mathhammered this, i wonder?

The rule states you may re-roll a single d6. So only one dice.

juraigamer wrote:The rule states you may re-roll a single d6. So only one dice.

There's a 10-page YMDC thread that implies it's not quite that straightforward.

There's an argument that GW intended you to be able to roll one die of a 2d6 roll - including a poster who called, asked that question, and was told "yes, you can". In YMDC that's irrelevant, they're arguing RAW. But when discussing tactics, it's probably more appropriate to see how it's typically played. INAT doesn't have a ruling, nor is there a GW FAQ, so we'd probably want to go whichever way the major tournaments rule. Unless you can end-run that, which I actually can - but I'm not going to the GW rules guys with something this minor.

For the purposes of this thread, though, let's just assume you can't reroll one die of a 2d6 b/c as I said, that turns the question into a no-brainer.


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You know, just pushing around some numbers, this might be the way to go. From looking at how effective a single chrono-linked s8 ap2 shot is, vs. 2x naked s8 ap2

For a test case assume our most common targets are Rhino/Razorback equivalents (waving around a flashlight, most likely) followed by maybe a Vendetta/Dreadnought type target, ie, AV11 or AV12.

To hit, we get a 2/3rds naked, or a 8/9ths w/a chrono - and 2/3rds chance the chrono is still available.
Assuming we need a penetration, against AV11 we've a .5 chance naked, or a .666 chance w/a chrono (.5 + (2/3*.5*.5)) - and a 1/3rd chance the chrono is still available for the damage roll.

So far, that's *exactly* a 18/54 chance of penetrating naked, and a 32/54 chance with a chrono. (.3333 vs .5926)

Then just looking at the chances of a destroyed result, it's 1/3 naked and (1/3 + (1/3*1/3)) or 4/9 chrono, giving us .1111 naked or .26337 with a chrono.

Holy Crap, a lancetek + chrono shot might be more effective than two lance shots even disregarding other advantages! Has nobody else taken a close look at this? I need to sit down this weekend and make out a full table for a range of AV targets and intermediate (glance, immobilize etc) results, but it's not just better than twin-linked, it's a LOT better than twin-linked.

edit: maths error, chance of destroyed result after penetration if 1/3 chance a chrono reroll is available is 1/3 + (1/3 * 2/3 * 1/3) or .4074, so hit/pen/destroyed chance is .2415, not .2634

chance of single shot hit/pen/destroyed:
.1111 naked
.2415 chrono-linked

The Chrono-link does sound pretty great. But it is a substantial number of points. 75pts for the two crypteks, the lance-tek and the chronotek. And what do you attach them to? Warriors and large units of Immortals are great antiinfantry, and it feels a bit of a waste for them to shoot at a vehicle. Small units of warriors are pretty fragile, and it's 140pts for seven 4+ save guys if you attach the 'teks to a min squad.

Might make sense to attach them to a large squad of warriors joined by a Phaeron, who are decent at hurting vehicles across the unit.

Exactly. I'm not a big believer in Immortals, I prefer larger blocks of gauss warriors. (And then, well, also some small blocks of warriors.) I could be convinced otherwise, but for now, my infantry has an AT capability.

As for whether the crypteks are cost effective - notice how I passed the buck to Alex on the other thread? What I'm saying here is that if I do decide to field an AT cryptek team, it looks like a Chrono-Lance pair (can only have one!) might work better.

Fair enough!

I love immortals though. Tesla is amazing. Not to mention fun- every 6 feels like a little gift.

I've been putting a Gazetek in the squad with Imotekh and his trusty Chronotek and have been pretty happy with the result.

You not only have the opportunity to re-roll the to hit roll, but the to wound/armor pen re-roll is great, and so is the re-roll on the vehicle damage table!


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Mannahnin wrote:I love immortals though. Tesla is amazing. Not to mention fun- every 6 feels like a little gift.

I got 3 out of 4 sixes with my annihilation barge the other day... Still looking for that 4/4.

That will probably be the best day of my life.

Heck I am thinking of investing in chronometrons for my regular units. Although I don't think it could apply to leadership as it says D6 roll and technically 2d6 is not a d6 roll, you are using two D6s but never the less

How often would getting to re-roll that difficult terrain test, or that run move. Maybe you get a lucky penetration roll and want to re-roll that result. Heck even re-roll a reanimation roll. Throw it in a unit that has a lord attached, have him re-roll his 2+ save or 3+ invul. A chrono tech adds so much although its weapon is pretty useless, a small trade off to help mitigate gakky dice.


Edit" I was making this assumption based on the thought that the space wolf FAQ forbids it, however the wolf standard is worded differently and although you combine the results it is still an individual die that is rolled.

Just so I'm sure, the Chronometron only let's you reroll one die a PHASE, right?

Being the case, you get, what, 3 rerolls a player turn?
(so you can't reroll a to-hit, THEN reroll a to-wound/to-pen)

If that's the case, does the reroll for Imotekh's night fight continuation/lightning count as a possible 4th reroll? (or does it take the place of one of the other 3 rerolls?)

Exactly. I'm not a big believer in Immortals, I prefer larger blocks of gauss warriors.

If I take a footslogging unit with some expensive HQ models, I'm not particularly happy about the 4+ save on the Warriors. AP4 is incredibly common for many armies (HBs, ACs, AsCs, Manticore missiles, PCs, HFs, etc) and it's not really hard to focus fire a unit of 10-15 Warriors all the way dead to the last man so they don't even get reanimations. The 3+ save makes a huge difference in survivability and they get a little bit of extra firepower as well. If I'd have a footslogging phaeron with them I'd equip the Immortals with gauss weapons naturally, not teslas.

f that's the case, does the reroll for Imotekh's night fight continuation/lightning count as a possible 4th reroll? (or does it take the place of one of the other 3 rerolls?)

Night fight roll is in the movement phase. Then you can re-roll something in the shooting phase (for example a roll of 6 whether lightning strikes some unit), and something in the assault phase. 3 re-rolls total.

Getting the most out of them means putting yourself in harm's way, which you don't do intentionally with the "default" chrono attached to Imotekh. This last game where I was getting so many rolls was atypical. I just got my ass handed to me (despite accidentally cheating!) by a Tyrannid friend rolling a wave of chitin over my anti-mech tailored list, felt like robot Custer. In a more typical scenario our opponents either leave our troop unit alone or kill it in one go, and Mannahnin's right that it's pricey. Especially as we've so many temptations to spend points on synergy instead of combat power. Might be worthwhile as a general purpose inclusion, maybe in a heavy foot unit?

If we're *already* fielding a lancetek AT team, though...


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skoffs wrote:If that's the case, does the reroll for Imotekh's night fight continuation/lightning count as a possible 4th reroll? (or does it take the place of one of the other 3 rerolls?)

Imotekh's night-fight continuation roll is considered as part of the movement (ie, first) phase. But there aren't many reroll opportunities duing movement anyway, that's fine.

Ah, right-o, thanks for clearing that up for me, guys.
(never used Chrono-Imotekh before, so I wasn't sure)