Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

OK, here's my current list, which I am looking to expand. As You can see, this is a sort of mix between Venom spam and CC list.

HQ
Archon - Agoniser, Shadowfield, Combat Drugs, PGL (runs with 4 Incubi in Venom with extra splinter cannon)
2 identical Haemies with Liquifier gun - each joins respective Wych squad, transfers his token, then stays aboard of Raider.

Elites
4 Incubi to run with Archon in Venom (extra SC).

Troops
2 identical squads of 10 Raider Warriors with blaster and splinter cannon upgrade (not sure about splinter racks and flickers upgrades on Raiders here - if I drop flickers and racks on both Raiders, that's extra 40 points).
2 identical squads of Raider 9 wyches with Agoniser-Hekatrix upgrade, haywire grenades (Raiders are currently w / flickers - another possible waste of 20 points in upgrades?). One squad gets shardnet, the other razorflails - the reason for diversity is because I am still not convinced which one I like more. Both Haemies join Wyches - see above.
2 Venom Blaster-warriors.

HS
No-brainer 3 Ravagers with DL and flickers.

I am pretty stuck here now. I could expand with Blasterborns in Venoms and apart of that I am out of any ideas.
I was toying with the idea of 5 Trueborn with SC sitting in my deployment in cover close to objectices and pumping out 30 4+ poison shots, but that means drifting from optimal list into "fun list" area.

So, is it just great or "that" bad?

well... depending on how you want to expand....

4 trueborn with 4 blasters on a venom is 173. works pretty well.

beast masters are also kick butt awsome, except the $$ cost for the models... but otherwise they kick serious butt. maybe swap the archon for the baron, if your going that way, and add him to the beast unit for stealth.

change either the raider warriors to venoms, or the venoms to raiders. try to keep your shooty warriors all doing the same thing. venom squads are more efficent, but the 10 man squad has better odds disembarking into cover and holding objectives (just because they can take more wounds)

but the venom squads are better at moving and attacking. if you need to, 10 or 20 on foot with some lances might be decent as a "home base" anchor/objective holder.

Does the list looks like it would need more CC nastiness? I need an objective opinion, since I am really out of any ideas. I've been thinking about beastmasters btw and these could be kit-bashed or old metal OOP miniatures from e-bay could be used - is the webway the only way to effectively use them. I clearly know that I don't want any mandrakes (for reason we all know), reavers and hellions. Scourges perhaps? Or they are really that bad? There are interesting options in the HS section but my 3 slots are taken by solid choices (I have a Razorwing for Apoc though).
Should I switch the focus from Venom warriors to Raider squads and use up to 3 Venoms for 4 Blasterborns?

Don't go for Haemoncului unless you do an army around them. Take a Archron (or the baron), and Lelith Hesperax. Her special rule of extra attacks will help her tear through most squads before they can strike back and can help one of your squads of wyches gain pain tokens faster. Another idea for you is to take another squad of wyches in a raider (upgrades your choice) if you want more CC; otherwise go with trueborn or regular warriors.

I'll disagree with Lilith. She is horrible.

Yes she gets a ton of attacks. But no drugs. Untill she gets a few pain tokens, she is only str 3. That means her to of attacks will only wound most things on a 5+. She NEEDS those attacks to pretty much break even with an agonizer archon, (who has a better save, is cheaper, and still a power weapon )

Beasts don't need WWP. If you go 3bm, 5 khymarae, 4 razor wing, (or something simaler - leave the fiends they kinda suck) you get a decent unit. Add the baron to squad to give them stealth.

Your list right now is kind of split. Not a bad thing, but generally I find with DE focus on one or the other. The only reason I run beasts in my snooty venom spam, is I need an HQ, and the baron synergies well with them. Plus he is only 105pts. Its also a nice "rush" unit that can take some fire and dish a decent hurt. It's your call though. For more snooty, switch to venoms, and grab blaster born. For combat, more wyches. If you want a SC, vect is pretty awesome. With BB, incubi or even wyches he can put a pretty nasty punch downfield. The haemonculus should be kept minimum, maybe just liquifiers, and maybes shattershard,to give free tokens to wyches, or incubi.

Lelith is extremely overpriced for what she does. As for Haemies, I see them rather as a cheap upgrade and investment into squad survivabiilty (FNP), which may or may not be useful with liquifier afterwards. The more I am thinking about baron, the more I like the idea, especially in combination with beastmasters, which are on skyboards too (but not jump infantry). From a box of Hellions I could kitbash 3 beastmasters and Baron, then I'd have to figure out cheap alternatives for Razorwing flocks.
Thanks guys, I feel pretty settled with this What is considered to be optimal weapon for beastmasters - agoniser?
How does exactly Baron synergises with Venoms? I though that he is at his best with hellions - otherwise his Master of Skies is wasted. Apart of that, he gives that extra +1 on deployment, stealth to the unit he joins (he can't join Venom squad, can he?)

A quick idea for you, my 1850 tourney venom list. Has won my last 5 tournaments, and my last 20+ games.

- baron

3x4 trueborn, 4 blasters, venom 2 SC

6x5 warriors 1 blaster, venom 2 SC

3bm, 4 razor wings, 4 khymarae

3x ravager

Something like 1850 for the list. The beast unit may be a touch off, but if over the 1850, it looses a single razorwing.

Pretty net list standard, and a bit off from your current, but something to think on maybe.

* Sorry to jump in - but interesting points raised ,
cheers to CainTheHunter for the cross reference -