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Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





Ohio

So the leman russ has lumbering behemoth and allows it to move and fire its ordanance and one other weapon. Does that mean the other weapon has to be fired like a snap shot? So say i have a leman russ with triple bolters, it moves and fires its ordanance and one bolter. Does that bolter count as snap shot or no. I would assume it fires the battle cannon as normal with the bolter and then the remaining two bolters are fired as snap shots. Right?

 
   
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Rough Rider with Boomstick




Fond du Lac, Wi

If you move at combat speed, you can apply the one normal shot to one of the heavy bolters, and then the turret may fire it's weapon. The lumbering behemoth rule allows the turret weapon (an ordnance weapon) to fire in addition to weapons that may normally fire.

If you are normally firing one weapon at combat speed you can tack on the turret shot in addition to the normal fire, since what you normally fire is one weapon at full BS and all others as snap shots. If you are stationary you can fire all weapons normal, since the lumbering behemoth allows you to fire an ordnance weapon in addition to what may normally fire. However moving at cruising speed all the weapons fire a snap snot, including the turret since that is their normal fire mode for that speed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/01 06:01:16


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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





Ohio

Alright thanks that helps clerify things up a bit.

 
   
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State College, PA

Does this mean, then, that the Leman Russ gets to fire it's turret weapon even when shaken or stunned?

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Ohio

No, because being shaken or stunned only allows Snap Shots and you can't Snap Shot a blast template.

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State College, PA

Aren't you also firing a Snap Shot if you "tack on" the turret weapon while firing another gun if you moved, as outlined above?

Also wouldn't "always" override "can't" in the same manner that "must" overrides "can't"

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

Do Necrons dream of electric sheep?

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Made in us
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






newbis wrote:No, because being shaken or stunned only allows Snap Shots and you can't Snap Shot a blast template.


A Leman russ does not always/only have a blast weapon type as it's turret mount. So, in my belief as long as the weapon in question is not a blast/ordnance weapon, a Leman Russ would be allowed to snap fire all of it's weapons even when shaken or stunned.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/01 08:45:37


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Rough Rider with Boomstick




Toronto, Ontario

Wouldn't Lumbering Behemoth be completely useless now since in 6th edition you can always fire all of your weapons at combat speed? The only thing this rule does now is restrict the Russ from moving reliably at cruising speed. This should have been addressed in the FAQ to allow the Russ to fire a 2nd weapon at normal BS when moving at combat speed.


 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




You can only Snap Fire if you fire Ordnance, usually, so it isnt useless.
   
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Proud Triarch Praetorian





Derby, UK.

the LR basically got a boost. In 5th Ed you coudl move 6" and fire the turret plus 1 more weapon.

Now you can move 6", fire the turret, 1 other weapons at normal BS and then every other weapon at BS1.

Presumably this wouldn't work for the executioner as it has sponson plasma cannons and they can't be fire using Snapshot.

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Guardsman with Flashlight




The Great White North, aka Canada

So the consensus is that the LMBT can fire its Ordinance and (1) other weapon and full bs, and snap shot the other sponsors when going combat speed -- is the Russ also restricted too the same penalties if stationary, as per the WHRB entry on ordinance weapons? (in our first test game today, we assumed so ... so no massed bs 3 fire even if stationary/pivoting). Correct?

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Numberless Necron Warrior




No. The rulebook states that it can shoot all of its weapons AND it's turret weapon if it hasn't moved. So it would be able to shoot all of it's weapons at normal BS.

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Proud Triarch Praetorian





Derby, UK.

True but the rulebook also states that if you fire Ordnance any other weapons can only Snapfire.


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Revving Ravenwing Biker






As a guard player I have no idea what to think about this rule. it makes no sense in the 6th edition ruleset. Same with the new barrage rules for the collossus and griffon firing at a target whithin line of sight and weapon range. The guard codex seems to suggest it can't be done!

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Power-Hungry Cultist of Tzeentch





Green Bay Wisconsin

Lumbering Behemoth rule specifically states that you can fire ordinance and your other weapons.
   
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Revving Ravenwing Biker






Lumbering Behemoth rule specifically states that you can fire ordinance and your other weapons.

But at what ballistic skill?

-Any terrain containing Sly Marbo is dangerous terrain.
-Sly Marbo once played an objective mission just to see what it was like to not meet every victory condition on his own.
-Sly Marbo bought a third edition rulebook just to play meat grinder as the attacker.
-Marbo doesn't need an Eldar farseer as an ally; his enemies are already doomed
-Sly Marbo was originally armed with a power weapon, but he dropped it while assaulting a space marine command squad just so his enemies could feel pain
-Sly Marbo still attacks the front armor value in assault, for pity's sake.  
   
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Proud Triarch Praetorian





Derby, UK.

Doesn't actually say you can always fire the Turret in addition to any other weapons you could normally fire?

SO...

move 6" - Fire Lascannon (normal BS), Fire Turret (LB rule), Fire sponsons (Snapfie).

Is that right?

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Revving Ravenwing Biker






Doesn't actually say you can always fire the Turret in addition to any other weapons you could normally fire?

SO...

move 6" - Fire Lascannon (normal BS), Fire Turret (LB rule), Fire sponsons (Snapfie).

Is that right?

There really isn't a precedent for this, it seems to be about the order of which you fire. "I am firing my lascannon at BS 3, which means I can't fire my battlecannon since it is ordinance, and I would have had to shapshot my lascannon. But wait! here is the lumbering behemoth rule saying I can fire the battlecannon, but I already rolled the dice for the lascannon so...."

-Any terrain containing Sly Marbo is dangerous terrain.
-Sly Marbo once played an objective mission just to see what it was like to not meet every victory condition on his own.
-Sly Marbo bought a third edition rulebook just to play meat grinder as the attacker.
-Marbo doesn't need an Eldar farseer as an ally; his enemies are already doomed
-Sly Marbo was originally armed with a power weapon, but he dropped it while assaulting a space marine command squad just so his enemies could feel pain
-Sly Marbo still attacks the front armor value in assault, for pity's sake.  
   
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State College, PA

newbis wrote:No, because being shaken or stunned only allows Snap Shots and you can't Snap Shot a blast template.


Except that, if I moved Combat Speed or remained stationary, I can ALWAYS fire my turret weapon.

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

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Made in nz
Fresh-Faced New User




You can now fire your turret while shaken/ stunned. here is the proof:

Lumbering behemoth::"a leman russ that moved at combat speed or remained stationary can FIRE its turret in addition to any other weapons it is usually allowed to FIRE (even if the turret is ordnance!) However, a leman russ moving at cruising speed can only move D6 + 6 - roll every time it moves at this speed"

the keyword here is that it says "FIRE"

Shaken damage table result: "the vehicle can only FIRE Snap Shots until the end of its next turn."

again we see "FIRE" this is a change from fifth edition where it stated models could not SHOOT under the shaken rule.

when you apply the Basic vs Advanced rule, where a rule from a codex takes precedence, your turret then overides the restriction to FIRE for itself, allowing it to SHOOT normally, all other guns however must fire snapshots.

as far as other guns are concerned ordnance prevents all other weapons from being able to FIRE, however lumbering behemoth states you can FIRE the turret in ADDITION to any other weapons it is usually allowed to FIRE. thus if you move 6 you can SHOOT one gun and the turret at normal balistic skill and if you dont move you can SHOOT everything at full bs. basically you just ignore the turret for working out shooting.

It is important to note the difference between Firing and Shooting.
Firing is declaring the guns you are goingto shoot and how you are going to shoot them.
Shooting is actually resolving the shots, and can be Snap Fire, or Normal.
   
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The Hive Mind




Firing and shooting in 5th were synonymous. I would bet they are in 6th as well.

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State College, PA

rigeld2 wrote:Firing and shooting in 5th were synonymous. I would bet they are in 6th as well.


No they weren't; in fact, I think you were in the huge thread that had a fight about whether or not Jaws was "SHOOTING" or "FIRING" into close combat.

I.E. shooting be a defined process, firing not so much.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 15:47:11


Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

Do Necrons dream of electric sheep?

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Logicians Chapter Marines - 4,000 points  
   
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The Hive Mind




Unit1126PLL wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:Firing and shooting in 5th were synonymous. I would bet they are in 6th as well.


No they weren't; in fact, I think you were in the huge thread that had a fight about whether or not Jaws was "SHOOTING" or "FIRING" into close combat.

I.E. shooting be a defined process, firing not so much.

Yes, I was. Shooting and firing were synonymous. Shooting at was not.
Firing was used synonymously with shooting often in the 5th ed book.
I haven't read the 6th ed book in a few days so I'm not sure I'm remembering it correctly.

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State College, PA

Ok, well as far as I can tell, the LRBT can fire it's main weapon while shaken, etc. because:

1) We look at the state of the vehicle, it is shaken.
2) Shaken tanks may only fire snap-shots, disallowing the ordnance weapon.
3) The Lumbering Behemoth rule specifically states you ALWAYS fire your ordnance weapon, overriding (codex) the snap-shot rule (BRB).
4) You may fire your main gun.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 16:12:19


Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

Do Necrons dream of electric sheep?

1st Concordian Armored (Updated!) - 18,000 points
Logicians Chapter Marines - 4,000 points  
   
 
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