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This is to check to see if I've 'Got It Right'.

Shooting. A plague marine unit shoots some Dire Avengers in 5+ rubble/debris/AT. There's 4 bolters, an Asp Champ's bolter (Precision Shot opportunity) and two PGs.





The dice rolls produce 5 wounds from bolters, 1 plasmagun and a Precision Shot from the Aspiring Champion which the Chaos player assigns to the exarch.



A poor toss yields 4 dead from the bolters. So, the 4 closest die (goes without saying).


As the shooter, Chaos has a choice when the Exarch takes his armor save against the "Precision Shot" wound. Since he's the closest to the PMs, he'll take the PreciShot or the Plasmagun wound. If he survives one, he'll then have to roll the other. Correct?


What if he'd been in the back? Would I resolve the plasmagun wound on DA #4. And the exarch gets his "Precision Shot" wound to deal with?

As a savvy user of the game mechanic, was this the best order to dole out the wounds? Should the plasma wound been rolled for first? Does it matter in the long run with some dice getting the DA Armor Save versus the crappier Cover Save?

Given the dice rolls, was there any game mechanic permutations I might've missed? Could the allocation of wounds or 'emptying the wound poole' have been done better?

For those face-palming at what seems a very simple Cut-and-Dried game mechanic and are ready to post some flamage, thanks, go ahead and slap yourself again. That's funny.

Reading it in text is one thing. Having 4 other nerds talk you through it during a game is another. Slowly walking my way through it here in a forum is going to allow me to "Get It Right" a lot more thoroughly. And hopefully, it can help others, too.

I'm going to take a few more "Walk Throughs" on other situations so keeping civil would be lovely!

Thanks.

Looks right, if I was the Chaos player, I would make the precision shot next, if the Exarch fails, then the plasma shot goes against another in the squad, if you did plasma first and the exarch died, then you would waste the precision shot.

So the concept is that you can potentially dodge a precision shot by dying to a regular 'closest' model first?

I guess when you boil it down, the exarch will still probably LOS for both the precision shot and the closest model and in most cases still make both so they are offloaded to some other model.

I agree there doesn't seem to be a clear order to how the wounds are resolved, so I guess the order is up to the defending player to roll his wounds however he feels will best help him.

Sounds like I would probably take the plasmashot first to guarantee it hit a scrub, then do the bolters and LOS the bolter off the excharch when he became closest then the precisionshot last.

I don't think the order matters, if you feel like you can dodge taking a wound via casualty removal order and you can make it work, I feel like it is legal (though I can't think of many ways to do it except taking crappy weapon wounds on a character with a better AV and others on rank and file.)

Great photos! very helpful!

I did debate if I should post this is the Tactics forum, but I think it fits here better as it's ironing out how the new allocation system works.



Same PM crew. Busy boys. They're shooting a Devastator squad with a Captain in T-Armor attached.




The SM player has put them out in a poor way, with the siggy wielding sgt, 2 MLs and the IC on the ground, and bolter ablative chumps in the ruins. Or *is* this bad, given the Captain has T-armor?




Let's say the Aspiring Champion is really shooting well and gets another Precision Shot. There are 3 PG wounds and 3 bolters.



Q #1: What's the best way the CSM player would have the 'wound pool' emptied? I have my guesses, but would rather solicit some (as much as possible) unbiased calls from you guys.
Q#2: Given typical MathHammer, how would it resolve out?
Q#3: It might be obvious, but if you were the SM player, how would you have arranged the models (deployed or had a great Diff Terrain roll) ?

I'd say bolters then precise on the IC then plasma.

But I could be wrong. The Sarge is likely to die (without a LOS) and both MLs probably will as well.

Edit:
And I would've put the two goons on the ground with the IC, then the Sarge on the ruin (next closest) then the 2 MLs.

The Sarge can LOS but its only a 50/50 shot and that signum is nice.

Note: this is all predicated on my understanding of the wound rules. I could be wrong on that.

Page 15, lower right corner...

I think the shooting player gets to assign wounds from mixed weapons.

nkelsch wrote:

I agree there doesn't seem to be a clear order to how the wounds are resolved, so I guess the order is up to the defending player to roll his wounds however he feels will best help him.

Sounds like I would probably take the plasmashot first to guarantee it hit a scrub, then do the bolters and LOS the bolter off the excharch when he became closest then the precisionshot last.

!

pejota wrote:Page 15, lower right corner...

I think the shooting player gets to assign wounds from mixed weapons.

Then he should attempt to maximize damage and not lose wounds

Personally, I am going to try to put a hurt on characters whenever possible which means making them roll as many saves as possible, so I would choose to do precision shots first to attempt to force what I want to die then backfill the rest of the wounds depending on who is closest.

Plasma gun first, because it has the best chance of taking out the Chaplain in front, It has to be rolled 1 at a time, and prior to the wound, he can do a look out sir!, with PG 3 wounds should be able to possibly kill him. Then the rest on the squad. Re-reading on precision strikes, I would allocate the precision last, It does not say you have to allocate at the beginning, that way if there is a bolter in front of a missile launcher you can try and take the ML out.

Morpheus wrote:Plasma gun first, because it has the best chance of taking out the Chaplain in front.

But it really doesn't, because of the 2+ Look out sir he gets.

Though the plasma is probably best served first, but he can shove those off to guys in cover.

Then Bolter wounds which he will most likely make at least two if not all three.

Question that came up in a game tonight about how wounds from templates are allocated. Lets say there are 3 tyranid warriors (4+) with a prime out front (3+). A flamer template hits and wounds 2 warriors and the prime. Are all 3 wounds assigned to the prime since he is the closest, barring a look out sir roll, or are they taken on the models hit by the template?

Closest model within line of sight takes wounds.
The only issue is what happens with a weapon that can hit a unit completely out of sight (i.e. a poorly scattered blast marker)?

nidsNguard wrote:Question that came up in a game tonight about how wounds from templates are allocated. Lets say there are 3 tyranid warriors (4+) with a prime out front (3+). A flamer template hits and wounds 2 warriors and the prime. Are all 3 wounds assigned to the prime since he is the closest, barring a look out sir roll, or are they taken on the models hit by the template?

The template just generates wounds, so they'd be allocated to the T-prime until he dies, like the Captain in my example above.

Damn. MathHammer:

1. Shooter assigns the PGs on the Captain first. He would fail 2 outta 3 PG wound Invuln Saves. Or, as DeathReaper pointed out, slough those off with Look Out Sir!, for the a better roll, Cover 4+, yes? So, 1.5 dead ablatives in the ruins as per our situation.
2. Then odds are likely, he'll survive the 3 to 4 bolter wounds. The Precision Shot, of course, could go on a ML or whichever. If the captain and MLs had been in the back, then it'd be a few dead ablative dorks (bolters) due to the PGs, and then maybe one from the other 4 to 5 wounds.

Do I have this right?

I anticipate a lot more artificer armor with Multiple HQ builds for this kind of Wound Soaking (TM). Or just Storm Shielded Termie ICs.

Morpheus, the IC must us LOS *before* he rolls a save, not after.

Since the IC is closest, I would use the PG shots first, he is just going to LOS them to the ones above, but he might fail...

Then IC will then probably just take the bolter shots on his 2+.
I would use precision shot on one of the MLs, make him roll that 3+ instead of the IC 2+

If the Exarch has a PG, would still use PS to put it on an ML.

Has anyone determined what happens when a character is the only visable model to the shooter and then passes a look out sir roll?

Same armor? if so, someone else dies on the failed save, if the LOS! roll succeeds (LOS! rolled after the failed save).

Different armor? If so, someone else gets the wound allocated on a successful LOS!, and THEN rolls the save (may or may not die, but LOS! is before the save).

Phazael wrote:Has anyone determined what happens when a character is the only visable model to the shooter and then passes a look out sir roll?

LoS rules are pretty clear that the wound can be allocated to someone out of sight or range without issue.

For the PM vs. Devastators the first step would be: Before rolling to hit, declare Focus Fire with No Cover Save. Now the two plebs in the building can't have wounds allocated to them. As the only things of any importance have no cover save, cutting out the two bolter marines is a net benefit as it also means the Captain must allocate his successful Look out Sir rolls to either a Missile Launcher or the Sarge. Then, use the Precision Shot to try and take out a Missile Launcher. Next, the Plasma Gun wounds, as the Captain will either pass his Look Out Sir and fob them off to someone else you want dead or fail and possibly get killed by them. If he dies, that means he can't soak the remaining Bolter wounds on his 2+.

Hmmmm.....

By the rules, I don't think Focus Fire will stop an IC from LOS a wound to any model he wants, even if in cover.

OTOH, that kinda breaks the Focus Fire rule, since that model would get that cover save that you just avoided....

Focus Fire says that you can only allocate to models with the declared Cover Save.

LOS is a kind of allocation (the LOS rule doesn't use the word "allocate" but later in the same rule refers to it as a reallocation so I think it counts),
so I would think that you can't allocate to a model outside the Focus Fire group.

LOS is also specific in that it overrides the prohibition on allocating to models outside of Line of Sight (and range for some reason, even though there's no prohibition on that within a unit.) It does not specifically override the Focus Fire prohibition on allocating to models with cover saves.

But it isn't clear that the FF restriction applies in the first place.

LOS may not be 'allocation' at all.

In fact, if it is allocation, it messes up other rules dealing with multi wound models in CC.

I'm not clear on whether models out of range of every part of the firing unit are able to be assigned wounds.

Yes. In the book it says every model can be removed, no restrictions except for out of LoS.