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I don't quite understand all the hate for the Ultramarines.
I was painting a Homebrew chapter in a similar scheme to the Ultramarines and a few people at MLG would investigate and say something along the lines of "Smurfs, really?" to which I would then explain that they are not 'Smurfs' nor Ultramarines.
Another time a friend of mine visited and saw my marines. Assuming they were Ultramarines he then proceeded to ramble on about how they were the worst SM chapter without actually explaining WHY they are so terrible.
I personally have no problem with the Ultramarines nor do I favour them. I simply see them as a successful chapter who happens to be the flavour of choice on a lot of GW advertising.
My question is: Why do people hate the Ultramarines? What makes them so bad? People make fun of them calling them 'Smurfs' simply because they are blue but what is the reasoning for this seemingly irrational distaste?
Pretty much, its because they are blue. And they have been promoted as the poster boys of 40k for years, every poster seems to have blue Boy Scout marines on them.
Everyone loves a bad boy, and sorry, Ultrasmurfs are not that...
The Ultramarines have been GW's posterboys, it's true, but compared to other examples of ridiculous OTT pseudo-pwnage they are quite tame. Look at how well the Space Wolves fit in, the only thing truly making them appear like Marines being the power armour they wear.
Perhaps many people just "hate" on the Ultras because they are loyal to what the Adeptus Astartes should stand for - loyalty and dedication - instead of going all rebel like some other Chapters because "it's totally cool, duh, feth the system!"
That, and UM dislike is like some sort of fashion trend. People do it because "everybody does it".
Forget anybody who disagrees. Their Sternguard and Tactical Marines are the best looking models out of any army.
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
Matt Ward wrote some terrible fluff for them. Ultimately, they are seen as Mary Sue's with no personality to them except for being "The Perfect Boys of the Imperium". So while there are other great chapters with some personality, the Ultramarines get shown off as "Flawless".
However, Garahm McNeil wrote some pretty good Ultramarine books that depict the Ultramarines as much more human and likable characters. If you ever want to defend the Ultramarines, read those books.
Your little plastic army men, do what you want with said little army men. Atleast your painting them.... You could anger them further by glueing little Mat Ward faces on the front of their helms and saying "spiritual liege" alot. Sometimes annoying the band wagoners is its own reward....
Swiftblade wrote:Ultimately, they are seen as Mary Sue's
No Chapter is as Mary-Sue as the one that has single-handedly bested the Navy of an entire Imperial Segmentum, and defended its Chapter Fortress with a skeleton crew of Vets against millions upon millions of Guardsmen.
Oh, and they can afford flipping off the Inquisition, too, and they totally don't use psykers because they call it something else. Did I forget something? What was that bit with the giant flying space whale that they boarded and fought from within?
The nameless wrote:Your little plastic army men, do what you want with said little army men. Atleast your painting them.... You could anger them further by glueing little Mat Ward faces on the front of their helms and saying "spiritual liege" alot. Sometimes annoying the band wagoners is its own reward....
Challenge accepted. The level of rage will be fantastic.
TedNugent wrote:I love the Ultramarines' color scheme.
Forget anybody who disagrees. Their Sternguard and Tactical Marines are the best looking models out of any army.
Are you for real, son?
They're blue with white helmets...
ERMERGERD AMAZENG.
If you honestly think those are the best looking models out of any army ever made then you my friend, are insane.
Yikes, that was harsh...
Just because you don't agree with him on what models look best doesn't mean he's insane. Chill out, man.
Man, why is it so hard to give tone to typing online? It wasn't meant as an insult. If I wanted to insult someone I'd say something a bit worse than that.
Flinty wrote: You could always just strap SPACE MARINES to the arms and SPACE MARINE the SPACE MARINES!!1!1111
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
I think some of it was the idea that that every Marine whats to be like them that Matt Ward wrote in the last codex, kinda irked some other SM players.
To be honest, I never really cared for them since I started, not quite sure why, just something about them. The Space Marine game restored some respect, Captain Titus and Sergent Sidonus were awesome
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/10 03:55:36
LoneLictor wrote:Cuz Matt Ward wrote some poor quality fluff for them and the faction became strongly associated with it.
And it starts. Thank you for not ever seeing anything past 5th for your assessment of the 40k fluff and and Mat Ward's "contribution"...
Did you even read my post?
All I said was that the faction became strongly associated with Matt Ward's fluff. Which is true. When people bring up the Ultramarines they almost always bring up Matt Ward's writing as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/10 03:56:30
I always thought it was because they were associated with beginners, and the negative connotations that come with that. What armies do you think most kids start on? Space Marines. And what chapter is shown as the best and brightest? Ultramarines. So it's natural beginning players would gravitate towards them, and so we associate Ultramarines with the unpleasantness of playing with beginners, That guy, and poor sports.
Xendarc wrote:I don't quite understand all the hate for the Ultramarines.
I was painting a Homebrew chapter in a similar scheme to the Ultramarines and a few people at MLG would investigate and say something along the lines of "Smurfs, really?" to which I would then explain that they are not 'Smurfs' nor Ultramarines.
Do you have pics? I'm curious as to what "similar" means in this context.
My opinion is simply that the particular shade of blue used for the Ultramarines is very .. smurf'ish. Especially when you have the white helmets...
Regardless, "vanilla codex" marines are always going to be ripped on. For no other reason than they are just the basic build that everything else is measured against. Embrace this and you'll be fine.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/10 04:06:58
------------------
"Why me?" Gideon begged, falling to his knees.
"Why not?" - Asdrubael Vect
People really do have low expectations and a little disrespect for not only UM, but their players. I see it all the time.
I just love playing UM. People always treat me like some clueless newb, make stupid brazen moves that they would never try on a guy who has played 40k since the RT days (which I have), and then about the end of turn 2 I start getting a little respect as about 600 points just went off table in their army and their eyeing my 500 points still in reserve.
On the other hand, when I pull out 40+ bikes done as a minor chapter, Guardians of the Covenant (done by wileythenord, thanks again) they look at me like I'm Sun-Tzu and take 5 minutes of planning before they try any moves.
I prefer the lowered expectations and the great turning of the tables (UM), to being analyzed and second guessed.
DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+ Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L) Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 Crimson Tide 59-4-0 Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2 One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners
If people hate Ultramarines because of Mat Ward's poor fluff writing skills, then it would follow that they would hate Blood Angels, Grey Knights, and Necrons for that very same reason. And from reading the feelings expressed on this forum, the hostility against Ward with those factions is more that Ward has molested their poor baby, the hostility is against Ward rather than against the faction.
By contrast, with the Ultramarines, it appears that people simply did not like the Smurfs for whatever reason and are using Mat Ward as an excuse to justify their rage of all things in blue Power Armor.
By the way, I have an indescribable hatred of Grey Knights and Blood Angels, so I sympathize with this sort of feeling.
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
TedNugent wrote:If people hate Ultramarines because of Mat Ward's poor fluff writing skills, then it would follow that they would hate Blood Angels, Grey Knights, and Necrons for that very same reason. And from reading the feelings expressed on this forum, the hostility against Ward with those factions is more that Ward has molested their poor baby, the hostility is against Ward rather than against the faction.
By contrast, with the Ultramarines, it appears that people simply did not like the Smurfs for whatever reason and are using Mat Ward as an excuse to justify their rage of all things in blue Power Armor.
By the way, I have an indescribable hatred of Grey Knights and Blood Angels, so I sympathize with this sort of feeling.
TedNugent wrote:If people hate Ultramarines because of Mat Ward's poor fluff writing skills, then it would follow that they would hate Blood Angels, Grey Knights, and Necrons for that very same reason. And from reading the feelings expressed on this forum, the hostility against Ward with those factions is more that Ward has molested their poor baby, the hostility is against Ward rather than against the faction.
By contrast, with the Ultramarines, it appears that people simply did not like the Smurfs for whatever reason and are using Mat Ward as an excuse to justify their rage of all things in blue Power Armor.
By the way, I have an indescribable hatred of Grey Knights and Blood Angels, so I sympathize with this sort of feeling.
Thank you!
If I had to guess it's because people in general just hated ultramarines before, but with them being the primary focus of the codex (What with it originally being called Codex: Ultramarines, with later chapters getting fleshed out)
I don't understand the issue though, 4th edition's dex was far more ultramarine oriented, had even worse things demeaning the other chapters, and didn't have as many SC's outside of the ultramarines.
I think people hate on Ultramarines (or, these days, Mat Ward) because they want to appear savvy. A lot of folks mistake cynicism and sarcasm for wisdom or intelligence.
Yeah, they are hated because it is currently "popular" to do so; much like Ward hate really. Some had/have a reason for why, but most are simply jumping on that flaming bandwagon.
TedNugent wrote:If people hate Ultramarines because of Mat Ward's poor fluff writing skills, then it would follow that they would hate Blood Angels, Grey Knights, and Necrons for that very same reason. And from reading the feelings expressed on this forum, the hostility against Ward with those factions is more that Ward has molested their poor baby, the hostility is against Ward rather than against the faction.
By contrast, with the Ultramarines, it appears that people simply did not like the Smurfs for whatever reason and are using Mat Ward as an excuse to justify their rage of all things in blue Power Armor.
By the way, I have an indescribable hatred of Grey Knights and Blood Angels, so I sympathize with this sort of feeling.
Matt Ward's Ultramarine related writing was worse than anything else he did. Just try sitting down and reading it.
EDIT: And to all you bandwagon people, read through this thread. The latest bandwagon is accusing people who don't like Ultramarines of being bandwagoners. With any luck I'll start a new bandwagon of accusing people who accuse people of being bandwagoners that they're bandwagoners.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/10 04:54:33
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 
Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 
Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 
Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 
Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 
Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 
Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 
Crimson Tide 59-4-0 
Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 
Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 
BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 
IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 
RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 
3500pts and counting!