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This is one of the lists I made recently trying to incorporate Lady Malys. After some consideration, this is what I came up with. I'd love to squeeze in the points for an Incubi squad I just bought (in metal, too) but I can't seem to get around it. Trimming the Wych squad and some extra upgrades on the other squads will not give me 150 points I'd need for the Incubi. Should I drop the Wracks and the Haemonculus and instead chose a squad of non-scoring Incubi instead? I could then change Lady Malys for Duke Sliscus, too, but I'm feeling like I'd be missing some of his bonuses doing that (only 2 units benefiting from Drugs, for example).

Or maybe drop Cluster Caltrops on Reavers and go with a Duke without changing the majority of the list? Ideas are welcome.

*************** 1 HQ ***************
Lady Malys - - - > 130 Pts
Haemonculus - 1 x Venom Blade, Liquifier- - - > 65 Pts
*************** 2 Elite ***************
Kabalite Trueborn 5 Kabalites
- 2 x Splinter Rifle, 3 x Blaster + Dracon
+ Venom - Splinter Cannon - - - > 175 Pts
*************** 4 Troops ***************
Wracks 5 Wracks
- 1 x Liquifier + Acothyst - Venom Blade
+ Venom – Splinter Cannon - - - > 140 Pts
Wyches 8 Wyches
- Haywire Grenades + Hekatrix - Venom Blade, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
+ Raider - Dark Lance - Night Field - - - > 203 Pts
Kabalite Warriors 10 Kabalites
- 1 x Shredder, 1 x Splinter Cannon
+ Raider - Dark Lance - Night Field - - - > 175 Pts
Kabalite Warriors 10 Kabalites
1x Dark Lance + Sybarite - - - > 125 Pts
*************** 1 Fast Attack ***************
Reavers 3 Reavers
- 1 x Blaster - 1 x Cluster Caltrops - - - > 101 Pts
*************** 3 Heavy Support ***************
Ravager - 3 x Dark Lance - Night Field - - - > 115 Pts
Ravager - 3 x Dark Lance - Night Field - - - > 115 Pts
Razorwing Jetfighter
- 2 x Dark Lance - Splinter Cannon - 4 x Basic missiles - Flickerfield - - - > 165 Pts
Total: 1500 pts, 7 Vehicles (2 Venoms, 4 Raider Chassis, 1 Flyer), 43 Infantry models

There's actually quite a bit you could cut if you want to make room for some Incubi.

Firstly, the Kabalite Trueborn. This is an anti-tank unit, two bodies with splinter rifles aren't going to change that nor are they going to make the unit more durable and the dracon upgrade is a waste of points on such a fragile, easily killed by a vehicle explosion/small arms fire unit. Keep this cheap, it's going to die, you're better off minimizing your losses. Drop the two ablative wound guys and you have 30 more points to work with.

As for the warriors, drop the shredders and the sybarites. Shredders are really trash weapons, what with only having a 12 inch range and no AP value. Sybarites aren't much worth the points either, as whatever can cause enough wounds to force a leadership test can also probably cause enough wounds to just wipe the unit. It might be worth it on a larger warrior blob if it doesn't have an IC attached, but not on a 10 man squad.

The reavers as you have them now are too expensive on too fragile a form. Reavers are, at best, as durable as space marines and at worse as durable as space marine scouts. When is the last time anyone has had any trouble killing 3 space marines/scouts? The three man suicide unit works fine, but you have to keep it cheap. Pick one upgrade, either the blaster or the cluster caltrops, and use it. Alternatively, drop this unit altogether to make some room for your Incubi.

You should drop the night fields on your Ravagers. The weapons that kill Ravagers (autocannons, missile launchers, lascannons, etc) usually have a 48" range so they do not give a damn about losing six inches. Small arms aren't a threat to ravagers thanks to their AV 11 on front and sides, so reducing rapid fire range is pointless. Meltaguns shouldn't be getting anywhere near your Ravagers, since they should be utilizing their long range to the best of their ability. These are the weapons that night shields protect against, mid/short range weapons, not big long range guns. You can swap them for flickerfields, or if you're like me, nothing at all.

Lastly, the razorwing jetfighter. Currently, it is a dual-role vehicle in your list and in this it does not excel. Due to the flyer rules, either your missiles will be going to waste or your dark lances will. It takes at least 2 turns to blow your missile load, out of maybe 3-5 good shooting phases per game. If you're shooting at targets that missiles are designed to kill, your dark lances will be middling about not doing feth all. If you're shooting at things with an armor-value, those missiles won't be contributing a damn thing. It's subpar in both anti-tank and anti-infantry firepower. Swap it out for either a naked Voidraven, which is a much better tank-hunting platform and cheaper, or take disintegrator cannons to specialize into an anti-infantry platform. The splinter cannon upgrade is also not worth it for the same shooting restrictions. If you're firing two missiles and two cannons, you've shot your 4 weapons and the cannon goes to waste. You could keep the dark lances and splinter cannon and use the cannon to fire at infantry when you use your missiles but you're just paying more points for an upgrade that doesn't perform as well as a free upgrade available to you. 6 AP 5 shots that wound on a 4+ are not as good as 6 AP 2 shots that wound most things on a 3+. 'Nother ten points you can save.

Not much to add, but I just want to ask: What are the wracks for? I haven't fielded any wracks before, so I don't know how great they are on the field, but using the power of mathammer, with an unit of 5, assuming no challenge and not one dead before they get in to assault...

Against MEQ
3 Wracks 9 attacks - 4.5 hits - 2.25 wounds - 0.75 unsaved
1 Wrack(w/LG) 2 attacks - 1 hit - 0.5 wounds - 0.167 unsaved
Acothysts 4 attacks - 2 hits - 1.67 wounds - 0.5 unsaved

That's 1.417 wounds, striking at the same time as MEQ. Even if you charge a severely weakened MEQ unit, they're still gonna struggle to win combat... But then again, why bring an unit that's only purpose is to mop up the 1 or 2 weakened unit(s) around? Their LG can do just as good a job without literally risking their life(6+ and 5+ FNP aren't gonna help much).

But if they're used for LG purpose, then you might as well drop the acothyst for points, if they get charged, they'll die anyway, but now you got points to put elsewhere.

If they're used for objective camping, then wouldn't a minimal unit of 3 with acothyst w/hex sniping(55pt) be better? LG will only be useful when they're being charged, which would... at best(3 hits on D3, then AP 1 or 2), take out 1.5 of the assaulting unit, hardly a problem if your opponent is using a decent sized assault unit... Or they could just shoot!

@Lokas, thanks for that in-depth analysis, I'll see how I can change the list according to your suggestions. The one thing I disagree about, however are Night Shields. I often play vs Eldar, and that upgrade proved useful.

@Baronyou Good point as well. I used Wracks as a support unit for the Wyches, but they never actually performed well. They simply have no staying power and no damage, as you pointed out. I'll see how I can manage a Hex Sniper Wracks squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*************** 1 HQ ***************
Lady Malys - - - > 130 Pts
Haemonculus - 1 x Venom Blade, Liquifier- - - > 65 Pts
*************** 2 Elite ***************
Kabalite Trueborn 3 Kabalites
3 x Blaster
+ Venom - Splinter Cannon - - - > 146 Pts
Incubi 4 Incubi
+Venom, Splinter Cannon - 153 Points
*************** 3 Troops ***************
Wyches 8 Wyches
- Haywire Grenades + Hekatrix - Venom Blade, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
+ Raider - Dark Lance - Night Field - - - > 191 Pts
Kabalite Warriors 10 Kabalites
1 x Splinter Cannon
+ Raider - Dark Lance - Night Field - - - > 170 Pts
Kabalite Warriors 10 Kabalites
1x Blaster
+ Raider - Dark Lance - Night Field - - - > 175 Pts
*************** 1 Fast Attack ***************
Reavers 3 Reavers
- 1 x Blaster - - - > 81 Pts
*************** 3 Heavy Support ***************
Ravager - 3 x Dark Lance - Night Field - - - > 115 Pts
Ravager - 3 x Dark Lance - Night Field - - - > 115 Pts
Voidraven Bomber
2x Void Lance, 1 Void mine, Flickerfield - - - > 155 pts
Total: 1496 pts,

I dropped the Wracks altogether and added the Incubi by trimming some points spent on upgrades. Swapped the Jetfighter for the Bomber. Added a Raider to the 2nd Kabalite Squad.

I guess in this list, the Haemonculus would go with the Wyches for FnP and Lady Malys with the Incubi to go after MeQ.

Another use for wracks is to deploy them with the HQ, then the HQ leave them on turn 1, taking the pain token. The wracks would be doomed should they get shot at, but at 55 points(if you go hex wracks), if it can divert one unit of fire for one turn, they've done a terrific job. I personally haven't tried running them like that, because I don't have any wracks and I don't like the idea of shuffling around on 1st turn and possibly delaying my movements, but I believe some people have ran it and had good result... back in 5th ed anyway, especially if you run do a IC + wracks + haemy(in main unit) pain token exchange thing, the unit would get FC on 1st turn.

If you drop the blaster warriors unit down to the minimal of 5, and squeeze 10 points from elsewhere, you could squeeze in a hex wracks squad for either character sniping and/or the pain token exchange thing I mentioned above!

Baronyu wrote:


If you drop the blaster warriors unit down to the minimal of 5, and squeeze 10 points from elsewhere, you could squeeze in a hex wracks squad for either character sniping and/or the pain token exchange thing I mentioned above!

I would prob drop the nade launcher from wyches, maybe take a razor wing instead of voidraven, gives you more AI as your lacking a little. Could also trim a few upgrades from raiders and get an extra blastborn if you wanted.

These points could also be used for snipe wracks. You have 60 points tied up in your NS and flickerfields. I think there is quite a bit more that these points could be used on.

I don't know if at this point I'm better off without any Nightshields and with a squad of 3 wracks. I see myself, though, that I'd struggle versus massed infantry hordes. I'll keep working on the list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wouldi t be worth taking the Duke in this list and expanding the squad with the Splinter Cannon to 20 men?

I can see your reasons behind going night shield against eldars, so I say that is up to you, you can always make the ravager a dissie ravager for AI purpose.

For hordes, you'd probably just have to use speed to your advantage, you should be able to get about 2 or 3 turns full of poison shooting before they get to you.

As for 20 kabs + duke setup, I'm 1 of those "never leave home without a raider/venom" kinda DE, so I don't know, but I've heard they're being experimented on these days, haven't been following though, so I'm not sure how well they do in actual game.

Ye, so far against Eldar, my Night Shields made a big difference making him unable to take down all my boats.

I played this list against a horde of Gaunts, some Zoans, shooting Warriors and Tervigons. NIghtshields made it so I haven't lost a single model after killing Zoans turn 1.

Haha... once in my DE lifetime, I'd love to see a game where I lose no model on turn 1... Too bad my group is full of 48" - 72" shooting... :(

I think your list is good now, if I had some incubi models, I might even give it a try!

For nids hordes, shoot and run away seems to be the best option, use your assault units to wipe/tarpit a weakened horde unit. I had the one glorious experience of wiping a fullsize genestealer unit with 9 wyches + haemy with 2 PTs! Happiest day of my life!

For ork hordes, our high initiative should make it even easier to assault weakened horde units, as our assault unit would further thin them down before they strike.

Heh, I'll play the list we came up with and see what can be changed around in it.

The 20 warriors blob would be probably the first thing to go, changed for a HWG Wyches squad or two. I dropped the Nightshields and only kept the Flickerfield on the Bomber.


*************** 1 HQ ***************
Duke Sliscus - - - > 150 Pts
Haemonculus - Liquifier- - - > 60 Pts
*************** 2 Elite ***************
Incubi 4 Incubi
+Venom, Splinter Cannon - - - > 153 Pts
Kabalite Trueborn 3 Kabalites
3 x Blaster
+ Venom - Splinter Cannon - - - > 146 Pts
*************** 4 Troops ***************
Wyches 8 Wyches
- Haywire Grenades + Hekatrix - Venom Blade,
+ Raider - Dark Lance - - - > 171 Pts
Kabalite Warriors 10 Kabalites
1 x Blaster
+ Raider - Dark Lance - - - > 165 Pts
Kabalite Warriors 20 Kabalites
2x Splinter Cannon + Sybarite - - - > 210 Pts
*************** 1 Fast Attack ***************
Reavers 3 Reavers
- 1 x Heat Lance - - - - > 78 Pts
*************** 3 Heavy Support ***************
Ravager - 3 x Dark Lance - - - > 105 Pts
Ravager - 3 x Dark Lance - - - > 105 Pts
Voidraven Bomber
- 2 x Void Lance – Void Mine - Flickerfield - - - > 155 Pts

Thanks for the help, everyone. Now off to the gaming table to see how they perform.