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as the question says, does the Ork Weirdboy Power hit Flyers?

It auto-hits, right?

The new FAQ says no.

http://forum.rollwithit.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=2797&p=28519#p28519

This is my argument (ross mason being me ^^)

People don't see to grasp what i'm saying...

Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon
that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with
Zooming Flyers and Gliding Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Gliding
Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use
blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or
otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes
weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the
Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic
powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and
novas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They are w rong.

I know, i've showed them but they continue to cling to

Q: Does a weapon that hits automatically, still hit automatically when
making a Snap Shot? (p13)
A: Yes.

That just tells how weapons, that have an exception to be allowed to snap shot, hit.

My interpretation on the matter is this. Weapons that auto hit can make snap shots. A weapon that auto hits can hit a flyer, BUT it must auto hit in a way other than those listed in the FAQ posted by pretre. Notice it says "doesn't roll to hit cannot target them" hitting automatically is not the same as not rolling to hit. We have a list of ways we cannot target the zooming flyer (markers, templates, line effect/AoE, and attacks that don't roll to hit), the problem is this. An attack that automatically hits (note, it doesn't read doesn't roll to hit, it reads automatically hits) can make a snap shot. Thus if an attack automatically hits, it may make a snap shot, and the shot is able to be resolved on the flyer. So long as the ability does not fall under those effects listed previously.

It's just like remove as a casualty and remove from the board are actually different, though they mean pretty much the same thing. FNP can be taken against wounds which remove as a casualty, but not against Jaws of the World Wolf which removes from the board. Both take the model out of play, but they don't allow the same actions to be taken in response.

 Lone Dragoon wrote:
FNP can be taken against wounds which remove as a casualty, but not against Jaws of the World Wolf which removes from the board. Both take the model out of play, but they don't allow the same actions to be taken in response.

Ummm...FNP cannot be used against Jaws, because Jaws doesn't cause wounds, which is what FNP "negates".

Automatically hit and don't roll to hit are the same thing...

Nope, FAQ is pretty clear on it

Happyjew wrote:

 Lone Dragoon wrote:
FNP can be taken against wounds which remove as a casualty, but not against Jaws of the World Wolf which removes from the board. Both take the model out of play, but they don't allow the same actions to be taken in response.

Ummm...FNP cannot be used against Jaws, because Jaws doesn't cause wounds, which is what FNP "negates".

A better example probably would have been the daemonbane vs. force abilities on the NFWs. Both are triggered from unsaved wounds, one inflicts instant death one removes them as a casualty thereby bypassing the ID portion of it. Take a Greater Unclean One from the Daemons Codex that has been hit by a 2 NFW hits. Because the GUO is immune to instant death the Force special rule has no effect on him, however the daemonbane rule still forces the GUO to take a Leadership check or be removed as a casualty. Both of the rules have the same end point, but one of the rules is stopped by EW the other is not. That's a better example that Automatically hits=/= does not roll to hit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:
Automatically hit and don't roll to hit are the same thing...

The biggest difference though is that a weapon that "automatically hits" can make a snap shot, where as a weapon that "doesn't roll to hit" cannot. Because a weapon that "automatically hits" is allowed to make a snap shot, it is allowed to resolve shots at a zooming flyer. Notice in the FAQ listing what can't hit a flyer it says, "or otherwise don't roll to hit cannot target them." We have a rule allowing "automatic hits" to make snap shots, we have no rule that prevents that snap shot from applying to said zooming flyer. This is one of those moments where we have a specific rule (weapons that hit automatically can make snap shots) and a general rule (weapons that don't roll to hit cannot target them) at odds, and we have to apply the more specific rule. This still leaves Line attacks such as Blood lance unable to hit flyers (remember it creates a line), but it allows something like "an autocannon that always hits" (I know there isn't one, but it's just an example) to shoot at said zooming flyers. The reason is that the automatically hitting attack allows for a snap shot, thus it is allowed to target a flyer (because it CAN make a snap shot), where as something that "does not roll to hit" cannot make a snap shot.

It's the same as all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. All weapons that automatically hit do not roll to hit, but all weapons that do not roll to hit do not automatically hit. And as we have a more specific rule about "automatically hit" are allowed to make a snap shot that overrides the general does not roll to hit. Notice how in the question they mention hitting automatically, but it is not addressed as every other portion is.....

 Lone Dragoon wrote:
My interpretation on the matter is this. Weapons that auto hit can make snap shots. A weapon that auto hits can hit a flyer, BUT it must auto hit in a way other than those listed in the FAQ posted by pretre. Notice it says "doesn't roll to hit cannot target them" hitting automatically is not the same as not rolling to hit. We have a list of ways we cannot target the zooming flyer (markers, templates, line effect/AoE, and attacks that don't roll to hit), the problem is this. An attack that automatically hits (note, it doesn't read doesn't roll to hit, it reads automatically hits) can make a snap shot. Thus if an attack automatically hits, it may make a snap shot, and the shot is able to be resolved on the flyer. So long as the ability does not fall under those effects listed previously.

It's just like remove as a casualty and remove from the board are actually different, though they mean pretty much the same thing. FNP can be taken against wounds which remove as a casualty, but not against Jaws of the World Wolf which removes from the board. Both take the model out of play, but they don't allow the same actions to be taken in response.

I think you are interpretting the FAQ wrong. The one FAQ question specifically asks regarding weapons that hit both automatically and make a Snap Fire shot, does that shot still hit automatically (to which the answer was yes). Nowhere does it state that all weapons that hit automatically can snap fire. I took the question to mean that IF a weapon that both A) hits automatically, and B) is ALLOWED to make a Snap Fire shot, does take a Snap Fire shot, does it still hit automatically instead of firing as BS1.

The second question about flyers and various non-to hit roll weapons/powers/effects clearly states that those types of attacks typically cannot Snap Fire. Many took this as a contradiction, but I think its pretty clear that their intention with the first question was IF a weapon/power/etc that hits automatically is somehow allowed a snap fire (such as by special Codex or character rules), it still hits automatically. I think it could also be taken as applying to a weapon or power that still has to make some sort of blanket to-hit roll, such as "Automatically hits on a 2+ regardless of the user's BS", in which case, the weapon can make Snap Fire shots.

Did you really need to post a duplicate thread?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/472886.page

 Amaya wrote:
really need to post a duplicate thread?

Nope!