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Okay dokes.
A little tickler and debate starter.
As the title implies. Me and my friend regularly play the Tau and Necrons off against each other. The vast majority of the time the Necrons win.
If anyone would like I can post the army lists that the Tau and Necrons can be chosen from but would just like everyone's opinion on the matter.
Peace out.

Tau are the worst army in the game right now, barring Black Templars. Their codex is from 4th edition, while Necrons have a new hotness codex from like a year ago. It's a Tau problem, not a Necron one. There are some Tau units that take advantage of the 6th ed rules though; check their FAQ on GW's site to make your games a little better for the Tau guy.

I'm sure the army listing would help. I wouldnt say their over powered. They are strong and tau are a rather old codex but I'm sure there's a way to beat them. Crons are mid range shooty army but I believe tau have longer range.

Necron have always been a bad match up for tau. Both are shootie armies, but the necron keep getting back up.

As crazy as it sounds.... Mount flamers on your crisis suits, and try assaulting his warriors. And have your hammerheads use the cluster rounds to try to take out scarabs quickly.

Tau got alot better with 6th edition. Their vehicles in particular(Disruption Pods are now mandatory awsome)


Necrons however play the shooting game better. Imotek screws with the Tau ranged game by forcing Night Fighting, which allows the Necrons to get into their optimum range with minimal casualities. Of course the Tau can buy Blacksun filters.

Neither army does what the other is vulnerable to, and thats melee combat. Although Necrons do have some melee units. So it comes down to the fact the Necrons work better in 6th then the Tau do.

Railguns are really good against Necron vehicles, but then again we have the Night Fighting problem.

I wouldnt mind seeing the lists. I use Tau with Eldar allies most every game now and I dont know if that would push the balance enough over to Tau or not what with Divination powers helping out shooting armies. New Necron codex just has more versatility than the older Tau one ( I just recently sold my Necron army) but Tau still have a fair chance depending on what type of Necron army playing.

Tau by themselves though i can definitely see having a problem with Necrons continually standing back up.

Sorry for the delay in update.
I kinda float back and forth to my keyboard (so the likely response will be tomorrow.)

Anyway the lists are as follows. Keep in mind this is the models we have not the ones that are on the board.

TAU
HQ
Shas'o ( AFB, FB, Shield, Armour, HWDC) 147pts
2 BG (w/ TLFB + TA) 126pts
w/ 3 Shield Drones 45pts

Troops
24 FW 260pts
w/ 4 markerlights 120pts
12 Kroot 84pts
DF 80pts

Elites
3 Crisis suits (Fireknives) 186pts
3 Stealth suits (w/2 Markerlight + FB) 162pts
Fast Attack
8 Gun Drones 96pts
9 Pathfinders 108pts

Heavy Support
2 Hammerhead's 350pts
2 Broadsides 165pts
w/ 2 Shield Drone 30pts

Necrons

HQ
Imotekh the Stormlord 225 pts
Nemesor Zandrekh 185 pts
Vargard Obyron 160 pts
Trazyn the Infinite 175 pts
Necron Overlord 90+ pts

Troops
40 Necron Warriors 520 pts
5 Immortals (Pyrrian Eternals) 85 pts

Elites
C'tan of the Deciever 185-280 pts
10 Deathmarks 190 pts
5 Flayed ones 65 pts
10 Lychguard 450 pts


Fast Attack
10 Canoptek Scarabs 150 pts

Heavy Support
Doomsday Ark 175 pts
Doomsday Ark 175 pts
Command Barge 80 pts
Necron Monolith 200 pts

END
If you are wondering why they are written out differently. One is my army list written by me (Tau) and the other is my friend's (Necrons) as such we write our lists our own ways.

Its a little bit of both, which provides for a very unhappy median.

Hmmm a little odd choices on both lists to me. I can post a tau list that should be easily able to overcome this. Also is this 2000 points? I could add them up but that would require math and math is hard.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Tau got alot better with 6th edition. Their vehicles in particular(Disruption Pods are now mandatory awsome)


Necrons however play the shooting game better. Imotek screws with the Tau ranged game by forcing Night Fighting, which allows the Necrons to get into their optimum range with minimal casualities. Of course the Tau can buy Blacksun filters.

Neither army does what the other is vulnerable to, and thats melee combat. Although Necrons do have some melee units. So it comes down to the fact the Necrons work better in 6th then the Tau do.

Railguns are really good against Necron vehicles, but then again we have the Night Fighting problem.

I'm actually quite terrified of necron assault options. They got some pretty bad #$! units that can chew up even other assault army units such as D.lord with scythe, MSS, 2+ armor giving block of wraiths perferred enemy and they can all do HoW attacks. Huge swarm of scarabs is still a done deal for most fights. Now that they don't have fearless saves, it's an impressive tarpit that can possibly be maintained forever given enough spawns.

a C'tan shard is pretty boss in assault also plus all of the necron choices are all incredibly durable/fearless or ld 10 and fast /ignore terrain so they definately get into fights really efficiently. I even perfer necron assault units to GK ones just because of costs of units and survivability/reliability. (hence I even put it in my tactica as a good GK allies choice <_<

Tau get Kroot... ya.. no contest with how much 6th nerfed them. Also ldr 7 (8 with sarge) really hurts tau. Losing a block of troops from a drone blowing up can really be tough to recover from. They don't have units like comissars or CCS like IG to negate those effects, you just tend to run off the table.

At least the necron isn't using a bunch of fliers.

It must be +2000 points as the 'cron list has 4 HQ choices.

Squad of pathfinders infiltrating with markerlights should be a good bet to help with the shooting

 Praxiss wrote:
It must be +2000 points as the 'cron list has 4 HQ choices.

Good point. Just now getting my coffee.

zteknon wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
It must be +2000 points as the 'cron list has 4 HQ choices.

Good point. Just now getting my coffee.

those are the models the guys in the thread owns, not what they field at any particular point in time.

zteknon wrote:Hmmm a little odd choices on both lists to me. I can post a tau list that should be easily able to overcome this. Also is this 2000 points? I could add them up but that would require math and math is hard.

I have 1950pts. He has 2500pts.

sudojoe wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Tau got alot better with 6th edition. Their vehicles in particular(Disruption Pods are now mandatory awsome)


Necrons however play the shooting game better. Imotek screws with the Tau ranged game by forcing Night Fighting, which allows the Necrons to get into their optimum range with minimal casualities. Of course the Tau can buy Blacksun filters.

Neither army does what the other is vulnerable to, and thats melee combat. Although Necrons do have some melee units. So it comes down to the fact the Necrons work better in 6th then the Tau do.

Railguns are really good against Necron vehicles, but then again we have the Night Fighting problem.

I'm actually quite terrified of necron assault options. They got some pretty bad #$! units that can chew up even other assault army units such as D.lord with scythe, MSS, 2+ armor giving block of wraiths perferred enemy and they can all do HoW attacks. Huge swarm of scarabs is still a done deal for most fights. Now that they don't have fearless saves, it's an impressive tarpit that can possibly be maintained forever given enough spawns.

a C'tan shard is pretty boss in assault also plus all of the necron choices are all incredibly durable/fearless or ld 10 and fast /ignore terrain so they definately get into fights really efficiently. I even perfer necron assault units to GK ones just because of costs of units and survivability/reliability. (hence I even put it in my tactica as a good GK allies choice <_<

Tau get Kroot... ya.. no contest with how much 6th nerfed them. Also ldr 7 (8 with sarge) really hurts tau. Losing a block of troops from a drone blowing up can really be tough to recover from. They don't have units like comissars or CCS like IG to negate those effects, you just tend to run off the table.

At least the necron isn't using a bunch of fliers.

yeah between the C'tan, the swarms and surprisingly the flayed ones. He can pack a right punch melee wise.

zteknon wrote:Hmmm a little odd choices on both lists to me. I can post a tau list that should be easily able to overcome this. Also is this 2000 points? I could add them up but that would require math and math is hard.

Please do (:

MarkyMark wrote:Squad of pathfinders infiltrating with markerlights should be a good bet to help with the shooting

I have pathfinders. I have 9 in fact. They do help. Plus lots of marker drones.

I'd say that Necrons are a powerful yet fairly designed army, and the only really broken thing is the number of fliers that they can bring, but thats more of an issue with other armies not being able to answer fliers until they get a codex update. Claims that Tau are the worst army right now are also overblown. They are mid-tier, although the lower end of that tier, although they don't have much in the way of unit diversity. But they do have an older codex, meaning they have fewer options, many of their options are outdated, and they are less points efficient than newer models (by about 10 to 20%). They do, however, have the best anti-vehicle unit in the game (Broadside Teams), an amazing weapon on their basic infantry, and the ultra-versatile crisis suit. But yes, generally speaking, Tau are underpowered when compared to Necrons, but unless the Necron Player is running a net-list and the Tau player is running an ultra casual one, player skill should be a more important factor.

All right Im at "work" so I dont have my books in front of me so bear with me.

HQ
-Normally I like to use either Shas'O Ralai or Rymyr. Yes using Imperial Armour is cheesy. Most people are ok with it since Tau are "the worst army in 40K."
-If people arent then Shas'O or Shas'el of your choice. Keep it cheap if you cant take the Imperial Armour guys.

Elites
-One unit of suits is what I try to stick to if I take any at all. For some reason my suits never really seem to want to work. Other people love them. Your standard suit just doesnt work for me though. I do like the XV9 suits but too much imperial armour is just too much.
-Pathfinders i have more luck with Rail Rifles than I do as a markerlight team. So I dont normally take them unelss playing a 3000 point game just to fill points

Troops
-Fire warriors. When in doubt take more. These guys are awesome now. Dont take em in Devilfish or Warfish. Waste of points. Stick em in a building or terrain and make things go away with that rapid fire goodness. More on this later. Shas'ui with bonding knife and EMP. Because its funny to make a dreadnaught go away. Not a very good chance but still. Buy defensive grenades.
-Kroot dont work for me. Reverse Orks that have rapid fire weapons instead of assault. Tried using Kroot riders for that pretty cool gun R48 st 7 rapid fire I believe. If you shoot cant assault, If you charge the whole squad gets eaten by whatever you charge before you can even go normally. So taking a huge blob of them to "tie up a unit", doesnt really work. Shooty army wants to shoot the unit thats closest. Again just doesnt work for me although Im sure works for other people.

Fast attack
-XV9 suits I believe go here as fast attack. Again dont have my books in front of me so cant remember. I like these more since theyre a little more beefy, better upgrades, ect. Dont usually use them much but If im going to take suits I like these. Again too much Imperial Armour and then you're "cheating" when you win........with the "worst army in 40k"..... For your 2000 dont take. In larger games try em.
-Piranas.....nuff said. dont
-TX-42 Piranas-too much imperial armour blah blah blah. marked improvement over the standard one. Take for funses or to troll. For serious games dont take.
-Vespids. Because i painted them and no one ever knows what they are. So good for troll or for sentimentalities sakes (no idea if thats a word). Otherwise dont take.
-Remora stealth drones. Again i think these are fast attack. Dont care if too much imperial armour. These are awesome. but pricey. Better than your regular markerlight drone to me. 2+ cover is not bad either. and can shoot a burst cannon. and seeker missiles. and they look cool.

Heavy support
-Hammerheads-Awesome with the 3+ cover save upgrade can now take. I like 1-2 depending on how many points left over and how many broadsides you want to take. Rail gun works best for me. Mine are cursed and dont want to kill vehicles so i only shoot template. Burst cannons because theyre cheap. And if you buy the upgrade can split fire huzzah!
-Broadsides. one unit of two guys. Never needed more. Buy plasma upgrade. Tis awesome. Buy shield drones. tis necessary. other upgrades up to personal preference. Guns are TL so i see no reason to upgrade BS as well. Seems there are better upgrades i can take.
-Barricuda!!!! Too much imperial armour blah blah blah hilliarity ensues. What is that thing! Dont take unless just wanting the shock factor.

Allies
(eldar because divination and making people perils their psykers to death is better than getting blasted by psychic powers and having nothing to counter it.)
HQ
Eldrad if you have the points. Ummm because hes awesome? Also trade his powers for divination ones. Because you have to if you want to cast anything on your tau. trade the 5/6 on the chart for the primaris power if you get em.
Reg farseer if you dont have enough left over points. eldrad is def worth it though. upgrades as necessary. but 3d6 for psychic powers is a must. also trade powers for divination but less roles on the chart so meh.

troops
rangers-not bad. not great. less models
guardians- works great when you snag a starcannon (lil more pricey) but gives you AP2 gun that works


Fortifications
Aegis defense line with Icarus Lascannon. Make eldrad shoot this. Makes enemy fliers go to sleep. If no flyers can still pop regular vehicles. Its still a Lascannon after all.


Think i covered my basic stuff i use. Let the raging at my post begin.

 Dand218 wrote:

I have 1950pts. He has 2500pts.

Mystery solved.


More seriously though, the Tau are an army that can effectively ignore Nightfighting. 1 blacksun filter in each unit that shoots 24 inches or more and you are set. Incidently, Markerlights never need to worry about Nightfighting either, so no need to place blacksuns on marker units either.

The necrons I regularly play with used to do a lot of Nightfighting abilities in their lists to mess with me, the new 6th edition rules more or less put an end to it as it cost them more to inflict Nightfighting which hurt their shooting than for me to become Nightfighting immune.

As for fighting necrons, aside from a couple of nasty units, the bulk of their forces are slow and only have 24 inches or less in which they can shoot effectively. Stay mobile, keep out of 24 as best you can and hit the scary fast units with everything you got in turn 1. Remember that twinlinked does well in snap shooting so TL Missile Pods, TL Railguns and alternate Hammerhead turrets from Forgeworld are good if he brings flyers. So is massed fire, I've seen Pulse Rifles down Night Scythes.

It is an uphill battle facing a codex that is effectively 2 editions newer than yours (the Necrons had to do this in 5th) but the edition change and FAQ were kind to Tau and we can leverage that in our favor.

Alrighty as requested here is the last one i used a few weeks ago. Currently im working on Chaos so it takes a bit of a mental shift.

2000 Pts - Tau Empire Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1998

HQ: Commander R'alai (IA) (3#, 190 pts)
1 Commander R'alai (IA), 190 pts

Troops: Fire Warrior (12#, 150 pts)
11 Fire Warrior, 121 pts = 11 * 11 (base cost 10 + Photon Grenade 1)
1 Shas'ui, 29 pts = (base cost 20 + Photon Grenade 1 + Bonding Knife 5 + EMP Grenade 3)

: Drone Sentry Turret Team (IA) (1#, 40 pts)
1 Drone Sentry Turret Team (IA), 40 pts = (base cost 25) + Twin Linked Plasma Rifle x1 15

Troops: Fire Warrior (12#, 150 pts)
11 Fire Warrior, 121 pts = 11 * 11 (base cost 10 + Photon Grenade 1)
1 Shas'ui, 29 pts = (base cost 20 + Photon Grenade 1 + Bonding Knife 5 + EMP Grenade 3)

: Drone Sentry Turret Team (IA) (1#, 40 pts)
1 Drone Sentry Turret Team (IA), 40 pts = (base cost 25) + Twin Linked Plasma Rifle x1 15

Troops: Fire Warrior (12#, 150 pts)
11 Fire Warrior, 121 pts = 11 * 11 (base cost 10 + Photon Grenade 1)
1 Shas'ui, 29 pts = (base cost 20 + Photon Grenade 1 + Bonding Knife 5 + EMP Grenade 3)

: Drone Sentry Turret Team (IA) (1#, 40 pts)
1 Drone Sentry Turret Team (IA), 40 pts = (base cost 25) + Twin Linked Plasma Rifle x1 15

Fast Attack: DX-6 'Remora' Drone Fighter (IA) (2#, 220 pts)
2 DX-6 'Remora' Drone Fighter (IA), 220 pts = 2 * 110

Heavy Support: Broadside Battlesuit (4#, 218 pts)
1 Broadside Battlesuit, 113 pts = (base cost 70 + Hard-wired Blacksun Filter 3 + Hard-wired Multi-tracker 5 + Twin Linked Plasma Rifle 10 + Shield Generator 20 + Team Leader 5)
1 Broadside Battlesuit, 75 pts = (base cost 70 + Multi-Tracker 5)
1 Shield Drone, 15 pts
1 Shield Drone, 15 pts

Heavy Support: Hammerhead Gunship (1#, 200 pts)
1 Hammerhead Gunship, 200 pts = (base cost 90 + Railgun 50 + Two Burst Cannons 10 + Disruption Pod 5 + Flechette Discharger 10 + Multi-Tracker 10) + Blacksun Filter 5 + Decoy Launchers 5 + Sensor Spines 10 + Target Lock 5

Heavy Support: Hammerhead Gunship (1#, 200 pts)
1 Hammerhead Gunship, 200 pts = (base cost 90 + Railgun 50 + Two Burst Cannons 10 + Disruption Pod 5 + Flechette Discharger 10 + Multi-Tracker 10) + Blacksun Filter 5 + Decoy Launchers 5 + Sensor Spines 10 + Target Lock 5

: Aegis Defence Lines (2#, 85 pts)
1 Aegis Defence Lines, 50 pts
1 Gun Emplacement, 35 pts = (base cost 0 + Icarus Lascannon 35)

HQ: Eldrad Ulthran (1#, 210 pts)
1 Eldrad Ulthran (HQ) [EL], 210 pts

Troops: Guardians (10#, 105 pts)
10 Guardians (Troops) [EL], 80 pts = 10 * 8
1 Weapon Platform [EL], 25 pts + Starcannon 25

does pretty well against most everyone so far.

Jefffar wrote:

 Dand218 wrote:

I have 1950pts. He has 2500pts.

Mystery solved.

You missed the point I think.
We don't play with all models on the board. That's simply the models we have to choose from.

Gonna get some Eldar Allies today. Going with either Elrad or a Farseer and some troops to begin with may add a prism tank alter though.
What troops do people suggest.

Rangers are ok. Pathfinder upgrade makes them better.

Guardians with starcannon I like more though.

And gotcha. Just what you have. Time to expand some maybe?

Very possibly. I'm disinclined to get more until they are updated. I was thinking a new army at any rate so perhaps Eldar (I know they are another army needing much love and a new codex).
Another thing about the Necrons that kind of annoys me is just how many of their attacks don't allow saves of any kind!
What is the point of an invulnerable save then?!?!

 Dand218 wrote:

Jefffar wrote:

 Dand218 wrote:

I have 1950pts. He has 2500pts.

Mystery solved.

You missed the point I think.
We don't play with all models on the board. That's simply the models we have to choose from.

Gonna get some Eldar Allies today. Going with either Elrad or a Farseer and some troops to begin with may add a prism tank alter though.
What troops do people suggest.

OK so that is understood if you answer the following questions it might help

What point level do you usually play at?
Are you prepared to spend any more cash on additional models, if so roughly how much.

Then the question becomes

what tau list would you build from those existing models (with the additional budget if any) that has a reasonable chance against a similar points value list selected from the above necron list.

 Dand218 wrote:
Very possibly. I'm disinclined to get more until they are updated. I was thinking a new army at any rate so perhaps Eldar (I know they are another army needing much love and a new codex).
Another thing about the Necrons that kind of annoys me is just how many of their attacks don't allow saves of any kind!
What is the point of an invulnerable save then?!?!

Wait what? The old codex said that warscythes ignored saves of any kind. Now they just give +2 str and are ap 2 I believe. also 2d6 for armour pen. I havent played the army in 6th ed (as in it being my army) played against it though. Hyperphase swords are just ap3 (which against tau is enough i suppose). If your guys have an invul they should still get it. Tesseract laberenth ignores saves. but can only be used against characters and MCs.

Theres certain units/things you can get for your Tau that are pretty good and probably wont change much. Firewarriors are pretty awesome and probably wont change much. The Aegis Defense Line works absolutley fantastic for me. Unless the Imperial Armour book gets updated Shas'O Ralai is a beast. T5 with a 3+ invul if attacks come from more than 12" away. And since hes T5 can eat a lascannon or melta without instant death coming into play.

But again these are things that I like and its up to you. Eldar allies are a good combo for sure. I use em every game with my Tau. Highly recommended.

HQ: Eldrad Ulthran (1#, 210 pts)
1 Eldrad Ulthran (HQ) [EL], 210 pts

Troops: Guardians (10#, 105 pts)
10 Guardians (Troops) [EL], 80 pts = 10 * 8
1 Weapon Platform [EL], 25 pts + Starcannon 25

I'd add a Warlock with embolden to the Guardians. He(she) will make them more resistant.
Eldrad is not really needed here. You could safe points by taking a Farseer w/ roward, guide (guiding the Guardians), stones (for divination).

Yeah i take eldrad so i can cast the primaris divination power twice on my firewarriors. Cant cast eldar powers on non eldar units. Plus eldrad is ML 3. And his witchblade actually makes sense ignores armour. and i mean come one its eldrad.

Id like to throw warlocks in just usually dont have the points left over. Dont really need him for me. The only reason i take the guardians is for another ap2 gun. battlesuits hate me and the turrets are cheaper so i do that.